boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
|
Post by boxman on May 7, 2007 14:37:18 GMT -5
We usually see the "ghosts" that people see at the end of the episode, but this time, if Lilly was seeing Ellen, it's probably the first time we *didn't* see a person's view of a "ghost". There was the episode with the baby where we didn't see its "ghost". We did see "ghosts" in this one, the girl saw her family as she was being hugged by Kat at the end. Let me restate what I said to (hopefully) make my observation clearer. If Lilly had seen Ellen's ghost while lying on the operating table, we'd typically see Lilly looking at Ellen, while the closing music plays over any other audio. In this instance, Lilly simply utters "Mom". Was Lilly seeing Ellen's ghost when she said that?? Because it would be unusual that we weren't simply shown Lilly looking at Ellen's ghost like in any other episode. Or did Lilly *not* see Ellen's ghost and just simply called out to her mom?? If so, why didn't Ellen appear as a ghost?? Is Ellen not dead?? Did "dead Ellen" not want to return to see Lilly?? Or as I mentioned earlier, was Lilly about to die and was starting to have an NDE?? There's several possibilities with very different implications here. |
|
|
|
Post by Naj on May 7, 2007 14:38:55 GMT -5
Hi coldfan,
I was referring to Ellen not getting the attention of a burial.
|
|
|
|
Post by riche on May 7, 2007 14:53:12 GMT -5
Because it would be unusual that we weren't simply shown Lilly looking at Ellen's ghost like in any other episode. Or did Lilly *not* see Ellen's ghost and just simply called out to her mom?? If so, why didn't Ellen appear as a ghost?? But this was unusual. Normally we are shown the "ghosts" related to the case. Ellen was not related to the case. The "ghosts" representing some sign of the victims recognising that justice had been done etc. Though maybe Lilly saying "mom" was supposed to imply she saw her mother's ghost. I guess we'll never know. I was referring to Ellen not getting the attention of a burial. I don't think enough time had passed. How long was there supposed to be between her mother dying and the hostage situation? Perhaps S5 will start with a convalescing Lilly attending her funeral. Then it will be back to work. The equivalent of Lilly throwing the newspaper away at the start of Rampage. |
|
boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
|
Post by boxman on May 7, 2007 15:02:53 GMT -5
Because it would be unusual that we weren't simply shown Lilly looking at Ellen's ghost like in any other episode. Or did Lilly *not* see Ellen's ghost and just simply called out to her mom?? If so, why didn't Ellen appear as a ghost?? But this was unusual. Normally we are shown the "ghosts" related to the case. Ellen was not related to the case. The "ghosts" representing some sign of the victims recognising that justice had been done etc. Though maybe Lilly saying "mom" was supposed to imply she saw her mother's ghost. I guess we'll never know. Well, I know it's a long shot, but I wish it's because Ellen really isn't dead.  |
|
|
|
Post by riche on May 7, 2007 15:06:59 GMT -5
Well, I know it's a long shot, but I wish it's because Ellen really isn't dead. This isn't Lost or Heroes. She ain't coming back I realise that Lilly is not a medical expert but I think we can assume that she really is dead. |
|
boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
|
Post by boxman on May 7, 2007 15:10:27 GMT -5
How about Star Trek III: The Search for Spock?? ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by riche on May 7, 2007 15:15:20 GMT -5
How about Star Trek III: The Search for Spock?? ;D It's more Empire Strikes Back ;D |
|
myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
|
Post by myril on May 7, 2007 16:34:14 GMT -5
Hmmm ... and another episode I'm not sure about if I'm going to vote good, excellent or best of season even. For sure it's an episode to talk about for fans, Ellen's death, the hostage situation, Lilly and Stillman being shot, the (little) uncertainty about how it will go on at the end ... of course it's a memorable episode. And because of all the main character stuff going on, the case was driven into background. So sorry, if I'm not writing now much about the case, though there are a few things on my mind, but right now there are more character things prevailing in my first impressions. Ellen's death. Yeah, it might have been interesting to watch a little longer the great acting of the 2 actresses together. And to get more to know about Lilly's background and feelings and see perhaps changes. On the other hand you can easily stretch a story arc like that too long, turning it into something boring and overdue to be closed. Think the producer/writers had to make a choice. Either a dramatic season final or go on with this arc into (hopefully) next season. There are reasons for me that it was a good choice, though a bit rushed, to let Ellen die before Lilly got shot, a decision for a big season final. Ellen standing at the side of the bed watching her baby probably unconsciousness, eventually fighting for life? No, thanks, that would have been cheesy and I don't think in Ellen's character. I had the hunch already in the episode before, that it would happen. And with the scene here in this ep, when Lilly brought Ellen lunch, I was sure about it. Ellen was saying a last goodby to Lilly. It's strange, but sometimes people sort of know the moment. Or they make the decision it's time to let go - think both is possible coming from the experience I had with members of my family. Found it very impressive what they made of this for Lilly. She was fighting with her feelings before and now adding the feeling, that she missed to say a proper goodby (just hope they don't let it end in something like throwing away a newspaper). I loved that scene (and not because of Scotty  ). I consider myself quite lucky, that so far I always had a chance to say a goodby to those close to me I lost. There was a moment, where I became aware nevertheless how important it is to have that chance, how much it helps you to mourn and still go on with your life. Lilly feels guilty about missing that chance, about that her mother died alone, though I think it was Ellen's own choice. Interesting enough to that Scotty was trying to give her comfort. Remember his reaction to Elisa's death, his guilty feelings, how he pushed his colleagues and especially Lilly away, how he prefered to be alone. But it's season's final and other things happened and so I'm wondering if we're going to see any more effects or aftermath for Lilly on this. But I don't think it made Lilly to risk more in the hostage situation or her sort of suicidal. She didn't want to die when she told Romeo (does he have another name?) to finish it, to shoot - I think, she was hoping for Scotty being already in position (or maybe she had even noticed they had already sneaked into the room) and that was the urgent call for: Now, do it, Scotty! Watch her eyes, she was looking nervously to the side, where she knew or expected Scotty to be. And she concluded before, that she was the only one, who could do something, urging Romeo to move into that room with her and Kim, well, she was the only one not tied to any handle with hand cuffs. Only wondered a bit, that she called Scotty (how could she guess, he was so close?), but anyway, it created the nice moment with the "Hey" - refering to what Scotty said, when he left her alone at her flat, mourning for her mum. Hmm, and now I'm a little lost, more thoughts on my mind, about other things too, but have to sort that out a little before writing more. All in all I enjoyed this episode. A great one. But .... Search for Spock or Empire Strikes Back or even worse a mix of that? Geee, you're scaring me.  |
|
|
|
Post by sukkerspinn on May 7, 2007 16:42:46 GMT -5
Ok, due to real lack of time, I'm being boring and will copy my review from Source1 with a few additions.
Long time since last time, but I figured the season finale deserved my attention in here.
Overall I thought the case was interesting, and ever so relevant. Not ALL that credible, perhaps because of the lack of details to the case itself. But the case plot is very relevant, and I personally really got the creeps of the whole thing. A little bit too easy to predict who the doer was, IMO, but I guess that was never the issue really.
That said, I have to mention that this is the only episode since "The Woods" that actually had my heart rate close to 200. The whole hostage situation, the portraying of the characters' feelings and how everything was dealt with, made it easy to be dragged into as a viewer, IMO. When Stillman got shot, I found myself grabbing on to a blanket for dear life.
I'd also like to point out the girl portraying "Kim" (?). She did a very good and trustworthy job as a witness!
As for Lilly getting shot, I don't think she'll die. Like someone else mentioned, the wound didn't look fatal (though ya never know with CC), and I don't think her calling out for her mom meant anything more than that it was a scared girl calling out for her mommy.
So now, perhaps they'll give Lilly a break from the show, what with her mom being dead on top of it all. But she won't die. If she dies, CC dies.
Then I'd like to add what so many in here said already; it's a shame Lilly's mom died like that. They had a really good story going on with the two of them reconciling at last, and then they just go and kill her off in an already packed episode. Definitely not giving it the attention it deserved.
If I coulda made them change one other thing in this eppy, it woulda been to cut the entire closing montage. It took all the tention away from the ending, in my opinion, and it woulda been better to leave it open.
Oh well.
Jolly good episode, nonetheless!
|
|
|
|
Post by riche on May 7, 2007 17:11:32 GMT -5
I never thought of Scotty shooting Lilly. Having looked again it doesn't seem very likely. Scotty fired twice. Once to break the glass, and this was upwards and towards the other corner, and then across at Romeo. Unless the 2nd shot went straight through and into Lilly, but I think the angles were wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by Naj on May 7, 2007 17:21:05 GMT -5
Jeffries was there too. Not sure if Jeffries fired his gun. I have to go back and look. I never thought of Scotty shooting Lilly. Having looked again it doesn't seem very likely. Scotty fired twice. Once to break the glass, and this was upwards and towards the other corner, and then across at Romeo. Unless the 2nd shot went straight through and into Lilly, but I think the angles were wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by riche on May 7, 2007 17:24:53 GMT -5
Jeffries was there too. Not sure if Jeffries fired his gun. I have to go back and look. He didn't. You only hear 2 distinct shots, though the 2nd is masked somewhat by the glass breaking, and it must have masked the 3rd by Romeo which hit Lilly. |
|
|
|
Post by leslie33 on May 7, 2007 20:34:05 GMT -5
That was one of the best episodes of the Season. I kind of thought it was the Orderly/Nurse who was helping the young Girl, but then I suspected it was the Neighbour who gave her a ride to School.
I freaked out when Stillman got shot. Then when Lily got shot and Scotty runs over to her and cradles her in her arms I kept saying "Oh my God" repeatedly.
As to why they did the surgery WITHOUT general anesthesia. I have no idea. Plus, Lilly only had the oxygen nose prongs, not the mask, so maybe she had a superficial injury and the Doctors were concerned about blood loss.
Plus she was halucinating she was seeing her mother. That is sometimes a result of shock and some oxygen deprevation. Your sense of time becomes messed up. So her "seeing" her Mother does not mean she's dying. Plus if she did, they wouldn't have the show any more.
|
|
Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
|
Post by Disasterfreak on May 7, 2007 21:38:52 GMT -5
Well... I watched it. It was just plain brilliant. Got nothing to add to what's been said, only the writers have done a great job. I leave the season happy!
|
|
|
|
Post by tillace on May 8, 2007 2:17:29 GMT -5
Sigh...I so can't wait to see this episode!
|
|
|
|
Post by TVFan on May 8, 2007 9:30:54 GMT -5
As I already stated (briefly), I loved this episode. I thought it had everything going for it, including many brilliant surprises. The only weak point for me was Ellen's death. As others have mentioned, it was abrupt and deserved its own episode outside of this hostage one. But, these elements are what made it so shocking, so I'm not sure that I would want the writers to have done it differently. Like many of you, I figured that Ellen had run off to whatever bar she could find. I never thought for a second that she was dead, so Lilly's statement threw me for a loop! I know it seems like she deteriorated quickly, but we don't know how much time had passed. We assume that it's continuous from episode to episode, but we don't know. It's reasonable to assume that it was from "The Good Death" to "Stalker" because Ellen tells Lilly that she had a dream that Lilly was reading to her -- something we know happened at the end of TGD last week. More time could have passed between the previous episodes. Hard to say for sure. I guess I'm sorta mixed about this story coming to a close. It was abrupt, yes, but it allowed the story to take a shocking turn and it's going to mean some interesting emotional turns for Lil down the road (always good in my opinion).
The case was excellent as well this week. I found myself very wrapped up in Kim's plight, and I was devastated to learn that her family died because of a deranged individual who was obsessed with her. Additionally, the cold case team was held at gunpoint, Stillman shot and Lilly left clinging to life. That's a lot of weight for one teenager to carry (obviously, it's not her fault). I never saw the twist coming with the mother, but it helped make Kim even more sympathetic. This poor girl was just looking for someone to pay attention to her and distract her from her life. She didn't have any friends, her parents were constantly fighting and ignoring her, and the one guy she liked was using her for a "friends with benefits" relationship (of course, it turned out that he did care for her). Some guy calling himself Romeo gives her the attention she has been craving, and she can't help but feel good about herself. Too bad her mother was the one fueling the fire and this Romeo was a deranged killer. I hadn't figured out his identity until he walked Kim into PPD. I was expecting Romeo to be someone we hadn't met, so I wasn't even thinking about those we had.
I was surprised at how disturbing the shootings were in this one. Even though I knew that Stillman was going to be OK, I found his shooting to be upsetting. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, but once Romeo was down, I figured it wasn't going to happen until Jeffries saw Lil. I was very impressed with her smarts during the entire situation. She managed to get the gunman into a room away from Stillman so the others could tend to him and she got Kim out of the room before Scotty started shooting. Nice police work. Her shooting seemed surreal. Watching them take her away on a stretcher and then watching everyone in the hospital attend to her just seemed like it couldn't possibly be happening.
As I mentioned prior, there were some nice Lilly/Scotty moments, and while they were sweet, I don't think that they were anything more than a testament to their strong partnership. I loved how he was there for her when her mother died, and told her that if she needed him, she only needed to say "Hey." Of course, this becomes very important later in the episode when she calls him from observation. He needs to know what she wants him to do, and she simply says, "Hey." Nice touch. It allowed us to see how well these two know each other and how much they truly care for one another. Everyone was broken up about Lil's shooting, but no one was as much as Scotty, who was pacing outside her room. I don't think that he shot her, but I'm not so sure that he's very clear on whose bullet she took. Perhaps, there's a bit of guilt mixed in with all that sorrow.
Finally, I LOVED the soundtrack to this one. The ending song, "Stolen" by Dashboard Confessional, is my current fave song. The juxtaposition of that seemingly sweet song over those traumatic scenes of Lilly hunched on the floor bleeding and then leaving PPD on a stretcher was nothing short of sheer brilliance!! It was haunting and moving and beautifully played. Perhaps, one of the strongest closing images ever.
Overall, an excellent episode that I think will keep us talking all summer. Too bad we have to wait 4+ months to see our favorite characters again.
|
|
|
|
Post by riche on May 8, 2007 10:30:31 GMT -5
She managed to get the gunman into a room away from Stillman so the others could tend to him and she got Kim out of the room before Scotty started shooting. I actually think actually Lilly made a significant mistake. She got Romeo into the interview room. That was good. The mistake was immediately telling Romeo about the other room. She should have distracted him from the mirrored glass and tried to keep him in the interview room. From the observation room Scotty etc. could have monitored the situation safely. |
|
|
|
Post by sonny on May 8, 2007 11:36:28 GMT -5
Well... I watched it. It was just plain brilliant. Got nothing to add to what's been said, only the writers have done a great job. I leave the season happy! Phew!! I'm soooooooo please to hear that DF, especially after last seasons finale. I'm glad your faith is restored!!  |
|
|
|
Post by Naj on May 8, 2007 12:28:47 GMT -5
I thought the same thing RichE. Maybe she had other plans had he been in the observation room. Don't know what that could have been but we know that room as an entrance too. --- Yay DF! err...rerun HO!  And also another observation about Lilly. Are these detectives trained to hammer people even if they are holding a gun to someone's head. I noticed Lilly did this and Scotty did it to his guy a few eps back up on that roof top. And her attitude with getting the keys from the others. Any thoughts from you all? |
|
koufax
Desk Clerk II
Posts: 93
|
Post by koufax on May 8, 2007 18:25:28 GMT -5
I think the theory behind it is that the detectives want to engage the crimminal. By possibly appealing to their inner common sense-showing them what's the purpose of doing this; its for naught because what you really want isn't going to happen. At the very least, making them think so that they will possibly slip up and then the detective can have an edge to over power them. In this episode it worked because Lilly was able to rescue the girl to safety.
|
|
). I consider myself quite lucky, that so far I always had a chance to say a goodby to those close to me I lost. There was a moment, where I became aware nevertheless how important it is to have that chance, how much it helps you to mourn and still go on with your life. Lilly feels guilty about missing that chance, about that her mother died alone, though I think it was Ellen's own choice. Interesting enough to that Scotty was trying to give her comfort. Remember his reaction to Elisa's death, his guilty feelings, how he pushed his colleagues and especially Lilly away, how he prefered to be alone. But it's season's final and other things happened and so I'm wondering if we're going to see any more effects or aftermath for Lilly on this.
..........
..........
...........
