Episode 3.15: Sanctuary

[boxman]

sonny said:

Opposites may well attract but I'm not convinced in this case. I've thought something between them may have been possible in the past but this episode screamed loud and clear to me that there won't ever be anything between Lilly and Scotty. Not quite sure whether that's a good or bad thing? Not that I mean I wanted them to hook up, but that possibility always being there, I liked.

Its weird because its not like we learned something new about something new about him. We learned something new about something old about Scotty. That's kinda high on my creepy scale. Its like that Halloween episode: Whats more creepier, a guy with an axe coming after you, or living with a murderer for almost three decades? The guy with an axe is scary to me, but not necessarily creepy. Living with someone--or in this case, working side-by-side with someone--who has a questionable past that you suddenly learn about, that's creepy....

[longislanditalian2]

I found that creepy too, Lilly at first seemed surprised that scotty worked undercover and knew the victim. Her look was priceless, when scotty lied again in stillman's office it was like she was thinking" here he goes again lying to my face not once but twice". Ana knew what she was doing was bad , but she had good intentions too one being the money to send her sister to school and the other wanting to be a secretary... She knew she was going to be killed but I was surprised that it was cessie not the guy that Lilly and scotty interrigated in the beginning. I think scotty learn a lot of things about himself and saw how bad his judgement was first with Ana then with Chris, he knew he messed up totally and admitted it to himself. Scotty is a very caring person but get easily carried away ... Lilly deep down wanting to comfort him but she held back remembering how he had lied to her last year

[TVFan]

I can't believe that I forgot to mention the leather coat! Lilly was wearing it in the opening present day scene when they went into the house. This is the coat I was talking about in the TV Guide article. I really love this coat. See it HERE.

Anyway, I completely agree with the whole creepy discussion. It is weird to work along side someone for 2 1/2 years and then suddenly learn something as shocking as this about them. But then again, Lilly is kind of the queen of this. Everyone only learned about her 49 last season because of George Marks. And even so, I don't think any of them know what actually happened to her as a child. They also seem to know very little about her upbringing (just what Lilly told Scotty in "Fly Away"). In fact, I think we (the viewers) actually know more about her past than her co-workers.

Honestly, I don't think Lil would have much ground to stand on if she chose to get mad at Scotty for concealing his stint working undercover. The fact that he withheld information when the case was first reopened this episode, now that she can get mad at, but I don't think she did. It's like sonny said, she's noticing this pattern in Scotty and realizing that he's not very good at controlling himself and she prides herself on her ability to do so. Therefore, she's more than likely not going to get mad about it because she just sees it as a character flaw, and as such, something she'll just expect from him.

[boxman]

tvfan said:

I can't believe that I forgot to mention the leather coat! Lilly was wearing it in the opening present day scene when they went into the house. This is the coat I was talking about in the TV Guide article. I really love this coat. See it HERE.

Interesting.... Has Lilly ever worn a vest before? Like the jacket you mention, I didn't notice that Sunday night either. It's black...can't tell from the captures if its leather, like her jacket.... hmmm.....

[sonny]

emptymoment said:

Yeah, me too..he's a cop, shouldn't he know that it's best to tell everything? I loved the look on Lilly's face though, she was all "oh no..don't lie to me again.."

That's what her look said to me too and Scotty knew it!

LLI - I'm not sure at all about Lilly wanting to comfort Scotty. I think the only thing she wanted from him was the truth, which he almost didn't give her.

About the coat; are you sure it is leather?? I'm really not sure. I liked it but personally I prefer the one with the pink lining. That's kinda got cult status now!

[ruda]

ok... it was raly good ep.
Scotty and Lilly are like a brother and sister.
Lil and Kat are working nice together ;D

song in last scene was MUAH! I love that song!!!!!

[myril]

First, the cast did a great job, good acting especially of Danny Pino. The story was ok, the plot quite straight, barely surprising twitches. Think it was visible that Ceci had been on drugs, that she was hiding something (interesting how much body language and mimick can tell, really - again good acting), that this guy with the knife was involved (though hadn't thought that was the friend Ceci was talking about) and that this jerk of a drug dealer wasn't the one who killed Ana. It was no surprise to me, that Ana hadn't swallowed the drugs but hid them in the church, she was too smart to carry that stuff in her stomach all the time. Yeah it's awful to think about the real thing, still it's not a case that's going to stuck in my mind.

But I liked that we got a case, where one of the detectives, Scotty, was personally involved and in a more dubious way. It explored a side of Scotty we have seen before I think, but gave it more depth. A good guy who is at times a bit naiv and rash in his doings, making silly mistakes and then tries to sort of fiddle his way out of it. Nope, it didn't surprise me that Scotty withhold information about the case, though it was stupid that he did. Not only Lilly has a trust issue with people, Scotty as well is not someone openly talking about himself, his feelings, thoughts and doings. As much as Scotty likes to poke into the private lifes of his team mates, he like to keep his privacy as well. But he isn't so good in keeping private life and work life apart.

Totally agree with what TVFan said about the balcony scene. Only that I never had the thought that Lilly should have been the one there with Scotty in the first place. He needed a buddy talk and one way or the other Lilly wouldn't have fitted as the one listening to him. It would have been quite contrary to the reactions in the scene in Stillman's office.

And it was nice that Lilly and Kat worked a bit together in this ep.

[boxman]

tvfan said:

I know irishkale pointed out in the spoiler thread for this episode that it sounded like the movie Maria Full of Grace, but I haven't seen that one yet (although, it's in my Netflix queue and I'm very interested in seeing it now).

Yes, especially since we now know that Maria wasn't full of 'grace'--Mary was full of heroin....

---

Wow, I finally caught the Cold Case premiere episode tonight on TNT, so I just got to see five great episodes in a little over one week: "Frank's Best", "Lover's Lane", "Best Friends", "Sanctuary", and "Look Again". Whew!!! Is it possible to OD off of Cold Case?? I'm losing a lot of sleep this week! ;D

Anyway, in "Look Again", it immediately struck me how Lilly lies about being proposed to and being married in two of her interrogations. Watching Lilly lie made this episode's revelation about Scotty's undercover stint seem less important to me.... (Especially now, since we now know of the McRay story.)

---

So speaking of marriage, there were two great "Rush" inside-jokes in this episode, the first concerned with marriage:

Ana: "You must be fighting with your real girlfriend."
Valens: "What makes you say that?"
Ana: "I am right, yah?" (laughing)
Valens: "Aw, she wants to set a wedding date. I don't see what the Rush is...."

And later, the other "Rush" joke during a conversation about hiding and being undercover:

Ana: "You drive fast."
Valens: "The only speed I know."
Ana: "You like the Rush."
Valens: "Don't you?"
Ana: "Nah."
Valens: (snickers)
Ana: "What."
Valens: "C'mon."
Ana: (laughing)
Valens: "When you're lying to that ball-busting customs cop, all those drug dogs, they're sniffing at you and then he finally waives you on thru--how do you feel?"
Ana: "Great..."
Valens: "Ahh..."
Ana: "It makes me feel great."
Valens: "Ha ha. Because it's a Rush, right? That's what i'm talking about."
(hmmm....... what are you talking about, Scotty?? hmm...)
Ana: "I pretend i'm someone else when i talk to them. someone who's not scared."
Valens: "And it works."
Ana: "You do the same thing."

---

Well, I need to sleep now. Getting really tired from these long posts over the week. But I have to say that this episode seems to be filled with double-entendres, symbolisms, and very interesting camera shots, juxtapositioning etc etc. I think this episode is like season one's "Best Friends" in that it's bridging the past with the present and into the future of season four. (I've posted in the "Best Friends" thread my theory that the episode bridges Jeffries' story arc from season two into season three's "Bad Night")

Lying. Marriage. Rush. Under cover.

Hmmm.... This episode is really looking like a veiled Scotty & Lilly story arc for season four.... all these details just dangling in front of our faces to see if we pick up on them....

Oh. Almost forgot. Scotty and Ana in the car...in both scenes, the music is "Mad About You" by Hooverphonic. Check these lyrics out, verrrry interesting:

Hooverphonic — “Mad About You”
* * *
Feel the vibe, feel the terror, feel the pain
It’s driving me insane
I can’t fake
For God sakes why am i
Driving in the wrong lane
Trouble is my middle name
But in the end I’m not too bad
Can someone tell me if it’s wrong to be so mad about you
Mad about you
Mad
Are you the fishy wine that will give me
A headache in the morning
Or just a dark blue land mine
That’ll explode without a decent warning
Give me all your true hate
And I’ll translate it in our bed
Into never seen passion, never seen passion
That it why I am so mad about you
Mad about you
Mad about you
Mad
Trouble is your middle name
But in the end you’re not too bad
Can someone tell me if it’s wrong to be
So mad about you
Mad about you
Mad
Give me all your true hate
And I’ll translate it in your bed
Into never seen passion
That is why I am so mad about you
Mad about you

---

Oh wait! One more thing... To interrogate one of the suspects in Episode One, Lilly dressed up as a jogger, threw water on herself, and bumped into the suspect in the park. Kinda like an undercover scheme? Holy cow. If one interprets that scene as being undercover, then this episode's story arc is stretching three years! And the added touch of throwing water on herself and the rain in the closing scenes of "Look Again" touches on the S2-S3 Jeffries story arc! Wow!! Am I making any sense to anyone?? gosh... need sleep....

[myril]

boxman said:

Lying. Marriage. Rush. Under cover.

Oh no, this combination of words is giving me only the creep, in whatever variation I try to think of it. Actually, I don't want to really think of it. sorry

But, haha, yeah boxman, I noticed the word "rush" in these dialogues as well and couldn't help but grin. But if anything it's just a funny word-play, wouldn't read much into it.

Watching so many CC episodes in a row let your mind work, does it? Having already any dreams about CC, boxman? ;)Interesting ideas, but I don't see that connection, the building of a story arc you see here. Reading Lilly's little act in the first episode as undercover is going too far in my opinion. And the rain... hm, sure rain creates not only atmosphere but can be seen symbolic (rain=tears=sadness, for example), but doesn't have to mean the scenes are connectet in any (other) deeper sense.

[schafferius]

Just finished watching the episode. I really liked the theme. It was an unusual style for the show, not the straight forward sort of following. Didn't particularly like Scotty all that much in it, I think h is much more attractive now. I really like that when Scotty was out on the balcony and was talking to Vera about his lying problem that it really had mostly to do with lying to Rush. Like mentioning his lying last yea and the lying he had done that day. It shows that he cares about his relationship between Lily and himself. That he doesn't want her to think poorly of him and he knows that lying to her is just like treating her badly. Well thats how I interpreted it. Looking forward to next weeks =)

[kadoom]

I would rather say his problem is not lying, it's the fact that he has something to lie about.

[longislanditalian2]

Very good points Boxman, maybe the writers are trying to tell us something to watch out for in season 4, Maybe a L/S romance?? I think in every episode the writers are hinting something about lilly.. Another point Boxman made was that Lilly lied about being married in the pilot episode ,like scotty she has a habit of lying. Why should scotty be any different they both have lied about somethings ? I think if we pay attention to the clues in the storylines we might find out the real truth about lilly...... As for Scotty he doesn't want to face what happened btwn him and Ana, the same with chris last year it took Lilly to make him spill , this time it was her giving him a look. I think Scotty should stop having to lie about things just face up to it . Again that's just my theory

[boxman]

myril said:

boxman said:

Lying. Marriage. Rush. Under cover.

Oh no, this combination of words is giving me only the creep, in whatever variation I try to think of it. Actually, I don't want to really think of it. sorry

But, haha, yeah boxman, I noticed the word "rush" in these dialogues as well and couldn't help but grin. But if anything it's just a funny word-play, wouldn't read much into it.

Watching so many CC episodes in a row let your mind work, does it? Having already any dreams about CC, boxman? ;)Interesting ideas, but I don't see that connection, the building of a story arc you see here. Reading Lilly's little act in the first episode as undercover is going too far in my opinion. And the rain... hm, sure rain creates not only atmosphere but can be seen symbolic (rain=tears=sadness, for example), but doesn't have to mean the scenes are connectet in any (other) deeper sense.

You're sounding like an atheist here, Myril. Things happen for a reason. God does not play dice with the universe. At some point you have to have faith, reason only gets you so far. I suggest you take Sanctuary and look again.

Boxman, be careful how you phrase your meanings and personal comments to members. . Please be read the rules of board RULES

Edited to add: Boxman and Myril have communicated with each other. Thanks for your PM Boxman.

[longislanditalian2]

I agree Boxman, We do have to have faith and reason...
A lot of things you have mentioned about Lying, Marriage, rush and undercover make sense. Maybe it up to faith to sort out these myseries and to undercover the truth about these things, some of these things are will be hopefully uncovered but some are best left to discover.

[ecooper516]

I can't believe that you equated the lying Scotty did with his co-workers to what Lilly did to get facts regarding a case. One is personal and the other is work related, to solve a crime.

[longislanditalian2]

If you look closely it is connected, you have a point there

[myril]

boxman said:

You're sounding like an atheist here, Myril. Things happen for a reason. God does not play dice with the universe. At some point you have to have faith, reason only gets you so far. I suggest you take Sanctuary and look again.

huh?

[sonny]

ecooper516 said:

I can't believe that you equated the lying Scotty did with his co-workers to what Lilly did to get facts regarding a case. One is personal and the other is work related, to solve a crime.

I agree Lilly lied to strangers to get the information she needed to help solve a crime. Scotty lied cos he didn't want to get himself in trouble for something that goes against his profession and a relationship where trust and truth is paramount.

Hmm, clutching at straws springs to mind boxman when it comes to your theory. I respect it but don't understand what you are getting at personally
I'm sorry but I really can't believe the writers would go down the path of hooking up Lilly and Scotty.

[boxman]

ecooper516 said:

I can't believe that you equated the lying Scotty did with his co-workers to what Lilly did to get facts regarding a case. One is personal and the other is work related, to solve a crime.

Sooo... you don't think Scotty lied in the line of duty, huh? Hmmm... In my humble opinion, I think you should re-examine the facts and the timeline of these two cases--the original murder investigation eight years ago, and the current cold case.

Keep in mind that a lie isn't just the verbal action of making a statement with the intent to deceive. A lie is also the act of creating a false or misleading impression.

For eight years, the Philly PD concluded wrongly that Ramiro was the murderer. Yet, when they finally arrest and interrogate him, it turns out that this might not be true, that someone else murdered Ana. Hence, the case was reopened as a cold case.

The reason why they came to the wrong conclusion eight years ago, is because Scotty hid and lied about the level of involvement he had with Ana. He deceived the homocide investigators back then about his involvement with her, and he certainly lied in his own police report about giving Ana his PD phone number. This is true because in turn, Manny, his immediate supervisor, had to cover-up for Scotty. Manny couldn't tell the original homocide investigators about Ana's phone call and about meeting her moments before her death.

If Scotty did not lie back in 1998, if he had told the truth about the phone number slip-up and his growing emotional involvement with Ana, he certainly would have been repremanded. There's no doubt about that. But this wasn't the case; his current co-workers would know if that had happened. Their reaction was that he should be proud about being involved with such a huge bust. But he never bragged about this case--he knew he had nothing to be proud of. This is why I take the opinion that Scotty lied about his actions and circumstances while on duty undercover, not simply just lying in a social sense.

[boxman]

myril said:

boxman said:

You're sounding like an atheist here, Myril. Things happen for a reason. God does not play dice with the universe. At some point you have to have faith, reason only gets you so far. I suggest you take Sanctuary and look again.

huh?

Scotty says that he has to change;
that he's stuck in a loop....

Think like Scotty.

Say these two names over and over:

Christina, Ana
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
over and over.....
...you're stuck in a loop...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
kinda hard, huh?
well, to make it easier,
try saying this instead,
over and over,
just like you're stuck in a loop:

Christy, Ana....
Christy, Ana.....
.
.
.
.
.
over and over,
you're in a loop....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
and think of religion,
one of the themes of this episode.......

*boxman walks away, whistling a tune....*