boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
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Post by boxman on Mar 24, 2006 0:20:30 GMT -5
I just saw the movie trailer for "Inside Man" and found out that "Dog Day Afternoon" is the name of a 1975 Al Pacino movie about an actual bank robbery. From imdb.com: www.imdb.com/title/tt0072890/plotsummary"Based upon true events, a New York man and two accomplices are besieged in a bank with all the bank employees after his attempt to rob enough money to pay for his male lover's sex change operation goes awry. What results is a two day media circus in which his private life and the humiliation of the police is laid bare for the whole city."It's interesting to note how the movie "Dog Day Afternoon" touches upon homosexuality, a recurring topic in Cold Case. Here's another synopsis from Amazon.com: www.amazon.com/gp/product/6304712960/104-5509351-6407130"A gripping true crime yarn, a juicy slice of overheated New York atmosphere, and a splendid showcase for its young actors, Dog Day Afternoon is a minor classic of the 1970s. The opening montage of New York street life (set to Elton John's lazy "Amoreena") establishes the oppressive mood of a scorching afternoon in the city with such immediacy that you can almost smell the garbage baking in the sun and the water from the hydrants evaporating from the sizzling pavement. Al Pacino plays Sonny, who, along with his rather slow-witted accomplice Sal (John Cazale, familiar as Pacino's Godfather brother Fredo), holds hostages after a botched a bank robbery. Sonny finds himself transformed into a rebel celebrity when his standoff with police (including lead negotiator Charles Durning) is covered live on local television. The movie doesn't appear to be about anything in particular, but it really conveys the feel of wild and unpredictable events unfolding before your eyes, and the whole picture is so convincing and involving that you're glued to the screen. An Oscar winner for original screenplay, Dog Day Afternoon was also nominated for best picture, actor, supporting actor (Chris Sarandon, as a surprise figure from Sonny's past), editing, and director (Sidney Lumet of Serpico, Prince of the City, The Verdict, and Running on Empty). --Jim Emerson"Hmm... Sonny, are you a big Al Pacino fan? Or what hidden connection to Hollywood actors and movies do you have?  |
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Post by sonny on Mar 24, 2006 11:36:57 GMT -5
Hmm... Sonny, are you a big Al Pacino fan? Or what hidden connection to Hollywood actors and movies do you have? Ummmm, none! Sonny is my cats name :smile43: |
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Post by eurache on Mar 24, 2006 12:53:01 GMT -5
Hmm... Sonny, are you a big Al Pacino fan? Or what hidden connection to Hollywood actors and movies do you have? Ummmm, none! Sonny is my cats name  ahhh... :smile21: :smile25: |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Mar 24, 2006 13:08:35 GMT -5
Hmm... Sonny, are you a big Al Pacino fan? Or what hidden connection to Hollywood actors and movies do you have? Ummmm, none! Sonny is my cats name Oh, yeah ... suuuuure!Like I reeeaalllly believe you have a cat that you named after Al Pacino!C'mon, Sonny, tell us what's going on between you and Al !!!  I promise to keep it a secret! |
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Post by sonny on Mar 24, 2006 14:10:04 GMT -5
Ummmm, none! Sonny is my cats name Oh, yeah ... suuuuure!Like I reeeaalllly believe you have a cat that you named after Al Pacino!C'mon, Sonny, tell us what's going on between you and Al !!! I promise to keep it a secret! Just cos I'm suspicious of you boxman!! :smile31: :smile21: You're trying to take the focus off of you aren't you? :smile6: :smile6: :smile6: |
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Post by frenchfan on Mar 25, 2006 7:30:40 GMT -5
I erased my completely irrelevant message. :  |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Mar 25, 2006 20:53:03 GMT -5
Oh, yeah ... suuuuure!Like I reeeaalllly believe you have a cat that you named after Al Pacino!C'mon, Sonny, tell us what's going on between you and Al !!! I promise to keep it a secret! Just cos I'm suspicious of you boxman!!   You're trying to take the focus off of you aren't you?  "You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me?" ;D Oh, wait a minute. Thats DeNiro, not Pacino.  "Never mind!" |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
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Post by Disasterfreak on Apr 2, 2006 10:14:02 GMT -5
I had this episode on tape and I FORCED myself to watch it again last night, even though I didn't want to. What brought it on was that I accidentally ran into this season 1 episode I NEVER watched... don't even know which one it is, but it was when Lilly agreed to be Kite's girlfriend... anyway, more on that later.
I hafta admit I liked the case a whole lot better when I watched it last night. At least it made more sense. I felt much sorrier for the victim second time around. She was still silly in the sense she totally fell for the act, no self-respect whatsoever, but I don't blame her anymore. She was a lonely, hopeful girl, full of dreams, and she just wanted to think the best of people and have some of those dreams come true. She did stand up for herself in the end, and that got her killed. Poor thing.
I still hated the McRay thing as much as ever, but it also made more sense to me this time around. I have to respectfully disagree with TVFan, I no longer think they were in touch beforehand, because McRay said "that's why I had to come see you, because (he'd turned into the owner of the bike shop place". I still think it was real dumb of her to swoon and just climb all over his bike, and I cheered for her when she turned back into her own self the next day at work, telling him to basically get over himself and leave.
Why did she take him back the next night? Well--it was dumb, and I HATED to see it happening. But it's basically because the guy who killed Roween said, "when someone opens a door, you hafta be ready to go through it"... and you could sorta see Lilly turning that over in her mind.
So I guess that's why she did it. She musta felt Ray was opening the door out of loneliness and singleness for her, and she wanted to go through it. I still think it's NOT the right door, and it's kinda sad, clinging on to these crumbs of a romance 20 yrs old... but it's a mistake lots of people make. I just wish MY LILLY hadn't made it, because of all faults in a woman it's one of those I respect the least (along with letting herself get beat up by a significant other and excusing it), but I can understand it. She IS flawed after all.
I still miss my Lilly. I'd rather have her closed up and alone than silly and clinging on to some old, old romance with a guy who's totally NOT for her (though he does seem to be sweet).
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Apr 2, 2006 12:17:19 GMT -5
DisasterFreak, (or anyone else), have you seen last season's episode "The House"? I haven't, that's why I'm wondering if you can answer a few questions for me. Here's the synopsis of "The House": "When human remains are found outside a former state prison, the team re-opens the 1968 case of a dead inmate, murdered on the night Johnny Cash's Folsom Prison Concert was broadcast to prisons throughout the country. However, when it's revealed that the bones don't belong to the person everyone had assumed, the team must start the probe anew by first identifying who the victim was."So what is the association between the Johnny Cash concert in "The House" with the Johnny Cash masks in this episode? The black and white scenes [in "The House] were awesome and seemed gritty, to fit the prison locale. Why the same black-and-white flashbacks in each episode? ...And, I loved ["The House"] because we were getting some really great insights into Lily's life all through the episode starting with Lily telling Bobby she knew someone who would've stole expensive boots for her once upon a time. My confusion lies in her story or fantasy about her husband who would've sold his motorbike to buy wedding rings..... So what's with the "expensive boots" reference in each episode: Lilly's stolen ones and Roween's birthday gift?? Why so much Lilly backstory in each episode? [Lilly] made mention of a daughter [in "The House"]. Was there ever a daughter or was this just something Lily hoped for.... [In the episode "Lover's Lane",] I noticed something that was really subtle but when you think about her talking about her future was not how she planned it, it kinda makes me wonder....okay here goes.. In the final scene with Lilly in bed, she very subtly seems to rub her belly....I think she's thinking not about Kite, but someone in her past...maybe she was in love.....lost a child? Is this too out there?  What's with these two speculation of Lilly having a daughter?? Are they just guesses, or could this be something that actually occured in her twenties?? We don't seem to know much about those years.... What other connections could I be missing from not seeing "The House"?? Could these common themes have clues to a McRay backstory that we will see in a future episode?? Is McRay also a bank robber? Could he have spent time in a prison? Is McRay Johnny Cash's long lost son?
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Post by frenchfan on Apr 2, 2006 13:11:04 GMT -5
Boxman wrote What's with these two speculation of Lilly having a daughter?? Are they just guesses, or could this be something that actually occured in her twenties?? We don't seem to know much about those years....
What other connections could I be missing from not seeing "The House"?? Could these common themes have clues to a McRay backstory that we will see in a future episode?? Is McRay also a bank robber? Could he have spent time in a prison? Is McRay Johnny Cash's long lost son? Remember the final dialogue (sorry for the approximate translation) The final scene is held between the wife of Hank (« lyle »), Bobby and Lilly. (During the episode, Lilly said to us that she had known a man like Hank it is a long time) Lilly : I know what it is resignation, a long ago that I lost the smile. Bobby : I am sorry Lilly : One was to leave to the countryside, to live in a farm, I had never lived there, it was not a return to the sources. It was the idea which I liked. I had this image in my head, working to him with the fields and me in the kitchen, my daughter on the knees, I told him how her father had sold his motor bike adored to buy alliances.
Bobby :A man not ordinary. Lilly : Since I am satisfied with the ordinary one. Bobby :It is difficult to live thus. Lilly : I am not unhappy but...... I think that Lilly imagines what could have been her life with Ray. But separation intervened. I believe that she wants to say that Ray would have been able of all by love for her. (As hank preferred to escape to see a few minutes Bobby and to see his sanction being much harder.)
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Apr 2, 2006 13:26:53 GMT -5
I hafta admit I never gave much thought to what Lilly said on "The House". I thought she was full of bull at the time. At least it seemed like it to me. Now seems it was all true. I wonder why she gave away so much of herself, it's silly, she could just make up stuff and it would serve just as well... now all these doubtful people have pieces of her past. Where's her self respect? Anyway... we'lll see. The worst possible scenario for me would be that she actually had McRay's kid and lost it. The best possible scenario would be that she made up the whole thing. But I guess we'll see... I'm thinking she just WANTED a kid. Oh, and for the record... Boxman, in this instance, I do think you're right. All those coincidences are way too obvious for them to be just coincidences. So why are the writers creating all the parallelism? It's beginning to seem really excessive, all the symbol-pregnant stuff. I don't like it. They should do it when it's worth it. Real life isn't so full of symbols. Of course real life doesn't have a musical ending sequence either...  :smile90: |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
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Post by boxman on Apr 2, 2006 15:17:02 GMT -5
So why are the writers creating all the parallelism? It's beginning to seem really excessive, all the symbol-pregnant stuff. I don't like it. They should do it when it's worth it. Real life isn't so full of symbols. Of course real life doesn't have a musical ending sequence either...  Well, Cold Case does break new artistic ground in the way it consistently uses two actors to portray one character (at different ages), and how it also consistently uses music from years gone by. In light of that fact, it doesn't seem too out of place to me that they are pushing the limits with the use of symbolisms, a basic form of artistry in film. Perhaps someone else (such as TVFan) can verify that I think this show uses recurring themes much more than any other show to tie-in long story arcs?? An interesting side effect of this is that the show is setting us up to have conditioned responses to their stimuli as a form of associative learning. We're more apt to respond to "expensive boots", "black-and-white flashbacks", "Johnny Cash", "automobiles", and "black leather jackets" in future episodes--sorta like Pavlov's dogs.... Hmmm.. " Dog Day Afternoons"? Ha ha ha... |
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Post by sonny on Apr 2, 2006 16:31:35 GMT -5
I hafta admit I never gave much thought to what Lilly said on "The House". I thought she was full of bull at the time. At least it seemed like it to me. Now seems it was all true. I wonder why she gave away so much of herself, it's silly, she could just make up stuff and it would serve just as well... now all these doubtful people have pieces of her past. Where's her self respect? Anyway... we'lll see. The worst possible scenario for me would be that she actually had McRay's kid and lost it. The best possible scenario would be that she made up the whole thing. But I guess we'll see... I'm thinking she just WANTED a kid. Oh, and for the record... Boxman, in this instance, I do think you're right. All those coincidences are way too obvious for them to be just coincidences. So why are the writers creating all the parallelism? It's beginning to seem really excessive, all the symbol-pregnant stuff. I don't like it. They should do it when it's worth it. Real life isn't so full of symbols. Of course real life doesn't have a musical ending sequence either... I'm so glad you gave the ep another go DF and that it improved on second viewing. Who knows, watch it a few more times and you may grow to love it!! :smile31: btw, I love how we've all taken to calling him McRay! :smile21: Frenchfan: do you watch a dubbed version of CC because the English version does not have the same wording as you gave. I'll transcribe the English version tomorrow as it is quite different I think. Boxman: Wow  you know what I had never thought of those connections, and like DF I also think it's not just coincidence that there are such strong connections between the episodes. Geez, it blows me away to think how clever these guys are who create all these subtle but highly complex connections. It makes the show all the more special. Great catch btw Boxman and you really gotta watch The House cos I'm sure there would be a millions more things you'd probably notice! :smile41: |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
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Post by boxman on Apr 2, 2006 17:52:22 GMT -5
Geez, it blows me away to think how clever these guys are who create all these subtle but highly complex connections. It makes the show all the more special. Great catch btw Boxman and you really gotta watch The House cos I'm sure there would be a millions more things you'd probably notice!  I just took a look again at that belly-rubbing scene in "Lover's Lane". Its very strange to watch from here in season three. Sequence 1: In the order presented: You first see her white cat. Then there's a bag of something (looks like chips or snacks for her cats), a newspaper, a television remote (it seems like a television remote because it's rather simple and doesn't have a lot of buttons), and another newspaper opened to the crosswords page. The Stevie Nicks lyrics say,"Lovers forever... face to face". Sequence 2: As the camera moves towards Lilly's torso, you see a VCR remote (it is more complex, more buttons, and larger), the other cat, then Lilly rubs her belly, then the camera slowly zooms on Lilly's face. The lyrics say,"My city or mountains, Stay with me stay, I need you to love me..." Sequence 3: As the camera zoom's on Lilly's face, she turns to the side, with a bit startled look on her face. From the shadows, it is obvious that it is raining outside. Then the scene fades out. The lyrics say,"I need you to stay, Give to me your leather, Take from me... my lace" Does the sequence of first symbols represent the message: "Feeding" "News/Information" about "Television (show)" in the form of a "Puzzle" about "Lovers Forever (McRay?)"? Does the second sequence symbolize Look Again at (or replay) "Videotape" about "Possible Pregnancy" between "woman in City (Lilly) and man from Mountains (McRay, who seems to be from Knoxville, Tennessee--which is not far from the Smoky Mountains)"? Does the third sequence symbolize "Lilly" is affected/startled by "The Rain"? (We already know now that rain is significant to her.) Possibly because of something with the man in "Leather", a.k.a. Motorcycle Man Ray??? Hmmm.... Makes one wonder, huh? Because I thought the song "Leather and Lace" by Stevie Nicks was supposed to be about Kite, but this really doesn't work out since they broke up in that episode. "Leather and Lace" must've been meant for Lilly and McRay, don't you think? So as "Lover's Lane" was from season one, and if all these symbolisms work out, then they were foreshadowing two years in advance??? |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Apr 2, 2006 19:20:31 GMT -5
No way. They didn't even know the show would be on that long. Sorry, Boxman. In life, when you have 2 possibilities, most often the SIMPLEST is the right one. Coincidence in this case. ;D
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
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Post by boxman on Apr 2, 2006 20:58:57 GMT -5
...In life, when you have 2 possibilities, most often the SIMPLEST is the right one. Coincidence in this case. ;D LOL.... ;D Occam's Razor is a principle meant to explain philosophical or scientific observations, not discredit it. "Coincidence", unfortunately, is not an explanation. If I had said the sequence of scenes says something about aliens abducting Lilly's sister in a future episode, you can offer a more simple and reasonable interpretation, and that would be an appropriate execution of Occam's Razor. To say there is no explanation for these observations, well, anyone can say that! So, there! ;D ;D ;D ha ha ha! |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Apr 2, 2006 23:07:23 GMT -5
Hmmm... squashing me like a bug, eh?? Well... we'll see about that. |
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Post by sonny on Apr 3, 2006 5:35:16 GMT -5
Interesting theories Boxman although I think I'm with DF on this one. I've never been convinced of the belly rubbing thing. She only briefly brushes her hand over it and seems more symbolic of Kite hurting her IMO. I think that scene was all about Lilly being alone again but trying to surround herself with all the things that comfort her.
I'm not convinced they had even thought of McRay at that stage.
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Post by TVFan on Apr 3, 2006 11:12:53 GMT -5
I've always thought that "Dog Day Afternoons" was set up to run a parallel between Roween and Lilly. The fact that they were both in love with the bad boy, both unlucky in love and so forth just seemed too coincidental to me. I had compeltely forgotten about the pair of expensive boots, but this has to be there to further the parallel. I thought the black/white in Dog Day was to pay homage to old bank robber movies much in the way the balconey scene seemed to play homage to old movies in general. CC did the same thing with Debut earlier this season. That entire episode was directed in such a way that it played perfect homage to the classics from the 60s. I love the stylistic genius of this show!
I agree with sonny about the tummy rub in "Lover's Lane." I think she was just alone again and reflecting on it.
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Post by Ju on Apr 3, 2006 23:55:08 GMT -5
I know I'm weeks late, but I've just watched this ep. There's nothing different to be said though. I liked the case and I feel sorry for the victim. Just for the record, I'm with you, DF. I HATED the whole thing with the "Harley dude". That was not the Lilly I know. Not at all.  The "romance" was too artificial and I didn't buy it. What was she thinking??? Geez... Well, I hope he never shows up again. On the other hand, I LOVED the boys' reactions, especially Scotty's! He couldn't be more nosy! :smile81: |
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:smile90: 
you know what I had never thought of those connections, and like DF I also think it's not just coincidence that there are such strong connections between the episodes. Geez, it blows me away to think how clever these guys are who create all these subtle but highly complex connections. It makes the show all the more special. Great catch btw Boxman and you really gotta watch The House cos I'm sure there would be a millions more things you'd probably notice! :smile41: 
The "romance" was too artificial and I didn't buy it. What was she thinking??? Geez... 
