Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom 
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Oct 1, 2006 9:58:40 GMT -5
Boxman said: Ok, first off--you really know how to hit below the belt.   ![]() i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/bestwishes_always/maniac.gif[/IMG] Second of all, I agree with Sukker and Sonny--you do NOT love a pet the way you love your boyfriend/girlfriend. You SAY you fall in love with a kitten, a puppy or even a baby right away, but that's mostly just a "cuted out", protective sentiment because they're so small and silly. That's NOT the way it happens with people. You can crush on them real hard, but the true feeling, the true LOVE feeling, is something that only comes with time. And a life together. Love at first sight doesn't exist. It can turn into love in the long run, but at first it's just a shallow, physical, excited sort of thing. A pleasant feeling, but NOT love. And I agree with Myril--trust IS the issue. With Lilly at least. Where did she develop all this trust? She suddenly turned into a perfect person? No way! Or at least, I would have liked to see the process. Too bad were weren't privy to it. |
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Post by frenchfan on Oct 1, 2006 10:22:59 GMT -5
And I agree with Myril--trust IS the issue. With Lilly at least. Where did she develop all this trust? No way! Or at least, I would have liked to see the process. Too bad were weren't privy to it. I completely agree with that. I am very perplexed on the evolution of Lilly. I have the impression to have lost the image which I had of her. Even if I know that certain meetings can upset your life and your way of behaving. This change was really radical and seems to me superficial. But I wait to see. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 1, 2006 12:59:37 GMT -5
Maybe Lilly's radical change will be explained, she goings through phases . She's in the middle trying to make her way , mentally there might be a lot of things from a mental stand point that Lilly needs to work out That one scene you can't really tell about her and Joseph's realtionship but it's clear he does love her. Lilly 's full of mixed messages so it's hard to tell if it's real to her.
Some interesting I had noticed about Lilly when Tina says " Same heart break Nothing changes".
Look closely at Lilly's eyes they begin to get teary , like she is thinking about her past loves. Her voice does sound like she is upset? Maybe she is mentally examining her past and current realtionships???
Back to the episode, I personally wanted to blame Cameron's parents. They weren't the type to be into his life, knowing what he likes to do. Maybe they were blind to know that the games he was playing had a big effect on him. They also had complete trust in him. Didn't Cameron's dad notice that his guns were missing, why didn't he call the police or at least ask Cameron? guns should always be locked up, why didn't he lock them up preventing Cameron from having access to it.
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Post by eli on Oct 1, 2006 15:30:15 GMT -5
Back to the episode, I personally wanted to blame Cameron's parents. They weren't the type to be into his life, knowing what he likes to do. Maybe they were blind to know that the games he was playing had a big effect on him. They also had complete trust in him. Didn't Cameron's dad notice that his guns were missing, why didn't he call the police or at least ask Cameron? guns should always be locked up, why didn't he lock them up preventing Cameron from having access to it. Um, I wouldn't exactly put the blame on his parents. Well, that idiot father can still blame himself about the gun and giving the access to it for his mess-up kid. He wouldn't ever even need Tek9, not even just for "his hobbyes". But otherwise they were, or at least seemed to be, just an other normal family. Cameron was a teenager and how much their parents usually know what their kids are thinking or even doing? Everyones thoughts and world-view is a little pit unrealistic at times, especially when you're a teenager. Cameron just actually lived on it. It's always easy to blame the parents when kids do something stypid, but it's not always their fault. People have their own will and they make their own choices. I don't think that the whole shooting thing had anykind of connect to anything related things inside their family. And how often parents call the police to go after their kids or would like to think the worst about them? Sure his parents must have seen that he was acting werd but I don't think they ever came to thought that he would open fire at the mall and then kill himself. In this case, I wouldn't blame the parents too much. Cameron was just too messed-up to be saved... But after all, that's only my opinion... |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Oct 1, 2006 15:39:55 GMT -5
I agree with Eli on that account. This episode did a pretty good job of showing us parents are NOT always responsible, and that you can come from a normal family and still be a messed-up psycho. Those poor parents though--even if it wasn't their fault, just bad luck, they'll spend their entire lives wondering what they did wrong.
Of course it's much more likely to have messed up psychos within a dysfunctional family. But in the end it's all pretty random.
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Post by TVFan on Oct 1, 2006 17:42:20 GMT -5
This cracked me up DF.  You should totally develop this show idea. You're an excellent writer! Regarding whether or not Lilly is in love with Joseph -- I really don't think so. Not yet anyway. I feel that they're more in that lust stage where everything is perfect and wonderful. This is why I find the two scenes from this episode completely believable. The real test to the relationship comes when that stage fades into a deeper, more meaningful one. That's when the flaws start shining through.  |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Oct 1, 2006 18:17:51 GMT -5
[/IMG] [/quote] Ha ha ha.... Well, I take it that you *do* know me well by now that it's nothing personal... I just like to "shake the tree to see what falls down".... You know, a discussion board is for, well, discussion.  So, thanks for the response, everyone. I was having a hard time understanding the angle you folks saw Lilly and Joseph that was bothering y'all. Trust, takes time to build; and I agree that especially living in a big city, one has to be a bit skeptical when first meeting someone.... But the way I see the two is that Lilly had a bit of an edge in getting to know Joseph. Unlike say, meeting him at a bar or some other casual situation, she was privy to some of his personal info before meeting him. In trying to figure out who he was (and why anyone would murder him) Lilly was able to: 1) Interview both his employers (who weren't suspects at the time, and gave glowing reports about him), 2) Interview his mother (and find they shared a some common background with mothers and siblings), and 3) Interview people Joseph worked with such as Crystal. I would think these interviews gave her enough background on Joseph's personal character for her to think he's a trustworthy guy??  This cracked me up DF. That IS funny, DF!  Ahh... Which leads me to my next question. If trust is important to see Lilly and Joe's relationship fully blossom, what do y'all think about Lilly's "little white lie" about not ever having his photo on her bed table?? He's rather perceptive about her. Not just wondering about this, but also wondering why she was working so late in the last episode. What was so hard (or embarrassing) to Lilly to just tell him, "Yeah, I did have your photo here at one time. I needed to profile your personality to figure out what a killer's motive would be to kill you." The truth would have been the end of that subject. But if Joseph subliminally detected a bit of falseness in her statement, will that be such a "flaw" in their romance that trips up his ability to fully trust her?? Could that little white lie be an anomaly that leads to the end of their honeymoon?? |
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Post by eurache on Oct 1, 2006 18:42:49 GMT -5
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Post by eurache on Oct 1, 2006 19:05:37 GMT -5
Now let me give you my experience of dating or meeting up with someone.  As boxman as trying to point out is we all put on a "face". What do I mean by "face"? Well, when two ppl meet in a bar or whatever, we put on this "face" of being polite, flirty etc. WE don't know this person yet as they don't know us either. We go on a few dates and get to know each other better. Both men and women.. put on this polite way and "I'm liking what I'm seeing".  Then little by little... after several dates or maybe longer, we get find out what makes us tick. What our faults are? We are testing each other out...finding some sort of trust. A getting to know you time. When more and more details are found out about each other, either side will decide to dump you or maybe there is something more with this relationship. Now about the kitty, you don't know anything the kitty's habits, you do fall in love b/c it's cute. Altho, cats can be independent, they are testing you too, see how much they can get away with; they are also sensing your moods. So in a sense, animals need loving and look for that acknowledgement or wanting that love given back to them. Now here Lilly knows or seems to know about Joseph b/c of his files. Joseph doesn't really know anything about her or her past, as of yet. So he might be in love with her or trying to know about her b/c she knows alot about him. So this might be lust thing going on or maybe something will come of it.  Right now, I think Lilly might be putting on her "face" mode and looking for happiness. Joseph, even tho he don't know enough about her; he might be putting a "face" mode on too, but he might have some feelings for her. Or this could be some kind of affection going on, like when it's between a kitty and the owner. Who knows? I think this is what Boxman is saying, but I could be wrong... so I'll shutup now |
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michelle
Loyal to Look Again
Lilly's GT Monkey [/color]
Posts: 1,047
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Post by michelle on Oct 1, 2006 20:56:59 GMT -5
Perfectly said.
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Post by eurache on Oct 1, 2006 22:11:51 GMT -5
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LillyKat
Lilly Rush
Loyal to Lil'
Posts: 1,132
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Post by LillyKat on Oct 2, 2006 12:23:06 GMT -5
...Joseph, unlike Kite, has no issues with Lil' being called off to save the world at 3 a.m. I LOVED that - especially seeing as S1's "Lover's Lane" just aired last week on TNT. It was a great juxtaposition, and truly showed how much Lilly has grown and changed for the better.... Those two events are not even close to being the same situation, LillyKat. Sure, they share the similarity that it occurred as each couple was about to make-out in the bedroom. But in this episode, Lilly received a call from a fellow co-worker regarding work. In "Lover's Lane", Mark was physically present, and also there for much longer than Vera's phone call. Mark wasn't even there to help Lilly on the case--he was kicked out of the house by his wife, was feeling blue about his girlfriend's death, and just needed companionship to soothe his weak heart. Lilly hardly uncovered anything new by playing along and talking to him. In this episode, it probably wasn't that late when Vera called--probably 8:00pm at the latest--as Kat was still in the office (remember, Kat has a kid to look after.), and the sky was still purple when Lilly gets there. In "Lover's Lane", it was definitely a very late-night interruption. And don't forget that Mark was still a suspect in the murder at the time he pops up at Lilly's door. LillyKat, what you seem to have trouble in understanding is that Mark, in being there in person, was the "third wheel" to Lilly and Kite's private moment. Mark was also there under very odd circumstances, at a very unusual hour, and was making strange advances towards Lilly.... Now was all this "strictly business" as compared to Vera's phone call?? Vera's on-duty phone call didn't physically or socially affect the two-person social dynamic that Joseph and Lilly were experiencing. Are you following here?? I'm really beginning to wonder if you have difficulty interpreting scenes in this show from a guy's perspective. It's something that seems almost rather blatantly missing in your analysis.... : it's already a known fact that you and I view episodes very differently. I don't look at them at nearly the same level you do (and it's likely I never will), so ... perhaps how I come to interpret certain aspects of an episode are always going to fall well short of your expectations on how I should be seeing this show. And, I'm not sure I should have the expertise of analyzing any of these episodes from a male perspective, so I don't really understand your comment to me on that. I was only making a general observation that Lilly was being called away and/or interrupted both in this episode and in "Lover's Lane." As I saw it, one guy didn't seem to mind; the other did. That's it. Sure, in "Lover's Lane," Mark was confused about his feelings, making an awkward advance toward Lilly, it was more personal and/or the whole "third wheel" whatever. Yet, in "Rampage," Vera was calling on a work issue, not quite as personal, etc. However, as I saw it, both were still interruptions. I personally don't breakdown or categorize the interruption. Bottom line for me: she couldn't finish her evening with either Kite or Joseph because of something related to a case. And, based on how I perceive the Kite character - whether it would have been Mark or Vera interrupting - I believe Kite would still have had the issue. And based on how I interpret the Joseph character, he would've been fine either way, even with a "Mark"- type encounter given he's already had experience dealing with misguided affections that stem from a working environment (Crystal, etc.). If this interpretation is short-sighted, then I guess it's my loss. But that's how I see it, and at the end of the day, it's JMHO. |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Oct 3, 2006 3:17:59 GMT -5
boxman: it's already a known fact that you and I view episodes very differently. I don't look at them at nearly the same level you do (and it's likely I never will), so ... perhaps how I come to interpret certain aspects of an episode are always going to fall well short of your expectations on how I should be seeing this show. And, I'm not sure I should have the expertise of analyzing any of these episodes from a male perspective, so I don't really understand your comment to me on that. I was only making a general observation that Lilly was being called away and/or interrupted both in this episode and in "Lover's Lane." As I saw it, one guy didn't seem to mind; the other did. That's it. Sure, in "Lover's Lane," Mark was confused about his feelings, making an awkward advance toward Lilly, it was more personal and/or the whole "third wheel" whatever. Yet, in "Rampage," Vera was calling on a work issue, not quite as personal, etc. However, as I saw it, both were still interruptions. I personally don't breakdown or categorize the interruption. Bottom line for me: she couldn't finish her evening with either Kite or Joseph because of something related to a case. And, based on how I perceive the Kite character - whether it would have been Mark or Vera interrupting - I believe Kite would still have had the issue. And based on how I interpret the Joseph character, he would've been fine either way, even with a "Mark"- type encounter given he's already had experience dealing with misguided affections that stem from a working environment (Crystal, etc.). If this interpretation is short-sighted, then I guess it's my loss. But that's how I see it, and at the end of the day, it's JMHO. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to make a personal attack on your views, LillyKat. It's just that we each hold almost diametrically-opposed views that I'm trying to challenge what you see in order to understand it, because of course, you might be seeing something from the female-perspective that I'm totally missing. This is why I'm a little disappointed that after I try to make some points to substantiate my point of view, you generally respond passively that we simply have a difference of opinion. I don't feel that our discussion is moving us towards a better understanding of how or why we interpret the scenes differently--and I'm beginning to feel that this is a loss to both of us. To give you more of a background on how I see Lilly and Kite, let me describe the framework that I see the two. Quite frankly, if Lilly was my sister and Kite wanted to date her, I'd be happy that they were together. A good analogy would be the relationships between Rocky, Adrienne, and Pauley in the "Rocky" movies. As "Pauley", I wouldn't mind that Rocky (Kite) wanted to date my sister Adrienne (Lilly). Sure, there's a part of me that knows that "Rocky" wants to score with my sister. (In the original movie, there was a scene in Pauley's meat freezer with a discussion of this exact topic.) But even though part of the reason why "Rocky" wants to date my sister is to score with her, he's also a guy that wants to take her out and show her that life is much more than just working in the pet store and baking turkeys at home. (Which pretty much also describes Lilly--a workaholic/homebody.) "Rocky" is a guy that's going to show "Adrienne" that life has it's simple pleasures when you're simply with someone that likes being with you. As Rocky told Adrienne, he's attracted to her because they filled "gaps" in their personal being. And over the run of the movies, it turned out that this simple view of relationships worked for the two. This is pretty much how I see and understand Lilly and Kite's relationship. I'd really like to know how this is wrong to you, because hey, that's my sister we're talking about! Now am I holding a very male-chauvinistic perspective on this? Why is it that we don't agree here? Right now, I still don't understand how you have formed your opinion of Kite, and why you continue to view him in the manner that you do. Still, I'm very willing to hear and understand your perspective on this, and would like to have you expand my views on Kite and Lilly's relationship. Yeah, pretty much so. Lilly and Joe are on their honeymoon right now. That's why I didn't find it too unusual for each to be very accommodating to one another, and be willing to bend towards the other's needs at this time. But to accommodate with a "white lie" when the truth would have sufficed? Though interesting to watch, it was a bit odd and disappointing. (However, I'm pleased to see Lilly be more upfront in the next episode...) |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 3, 2006 4:29:38 GMT -5
I do agree what The Revened Bizzare have said reguarding that Lilly thinkings that she won't be a good wife but I don't think Joseph feels that way I think he loves for who she truly is. It's Lilly that has a big problem , she sees herself as imperfect and damaged . While Joseph may not see it in that fashion he still knows there something else bubbling underneath the surface.
Joseph wants to be able to love her but Lilly seems not to trust anyone maybe not even herself.
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michelle
Loyal to Look Again
Lilly's GT Monkey [/color]
Posts: 1,047
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Post by michelle on Oct 3, 2006 17:04:43 GMT -5
Good points, LII
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 7, 2006 21:13:51 GMT -5
I have a question why was Lilly's cell on Joseph's side of the bed. This scene was in her bedroom why wasn't it on her side of the bed with the pictures of the victims?
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Post by eli on Oct 9, 2006 14:05:08 GMT -5
I have a question why was Lilly's cell on Joseph's side of the bed. This scene was in her bedroom why wasn't it on her side of the bed with the pictures of the victims? Good guestion BTW.... I think was just logical 'cos the nightstand or what ever, on her side was full of stuff. |
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Post by jambled on Oct 21, 2006 6:19:43 GMT -5
well that side is the closest to the door so maybe she just put it down there. Or maybe they couldn't light the other side of the room well enough for the camera so they had to put the prop there lol.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jan 2, 2007 15:43:57 GMT -5
Repeating on 1/21/07 @9pm on CBS
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coldcasegirl
Lilly Rush
Sleuthing for Clues [/color]
Posts: 2,279
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Post by coldcasegirl on Feb 26, 2007 17:56:24 GMT -5
Watched it last night, and OMG I completely forgot how incredibly hott the Lilly/Joseph scene is! In that moment, Lil's life is perfect and terrible at the same time....I'm jealous.. I still love the last song and where they form the boxes as a cross: very powerful! I also enjoyed the rest of the music, but OF COURSE, nothing from the rest of the ep can beat the L/J romance!   |
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I couldn't understand why she didn't come clean? ahh those "white" lies.. the kind we use sometimes in order not to hurt one's feelings. But in this case, did she say that in order for her not to scare him away? 
or to be polite? Or does she really not trust Joseph yet 
