Ep. 3.23 Joseph *SEASON FINALE*

[TVFan]

Sonny - I have always thought that Scotty was a little "strange" with Lilly. I actually think this is where a lot of the people who want to see them get together make their cases. I noticed it the very fisrt time they met in "Love Conquers Al." He definitely seemed interested until he learned that she was his new partner. Of course, we found out that he was with Elisa later, so I dismissed it as nothing more than Scotty checking Lilly out. The next time I noticed it was in "The Badlands" (I think). It was in the scene where Vera and Jeffries were fighting over racial stuff and Stillman intervened. Right after he broke it up, Lilly walked over to Scotty's desk, and the way he approached her struck me. That was the only time I thought that the show was setting something up between them. That was squashed (thankfully for the integrity of the show) when Chris came into town.

I did notice the same scenes in the finale, too. I think that Scotty wants to reach out to Lil and be closer with her, but he knows how she is and he knows what he did. Even though Lil may forgive him now, he knows that she doesn't forget. That's just my take on it, but it is clearly VERY open for interpretation. I do recall an interview with Kathryn not too long ago where she said something about always alloting for the possibility that the two could "hook up," but never actually having it happen is sexier than just hooking them up. I guess this is just another excellent example of CC resting comfortably in the gray area that it loves to experiment with so often.

[koufax]

I was watching a CSI from a few weeks ago that I tivoed and the actor who played Joseh was on it as a person of interest. The name of the episode was "Time of your Death"

[sonny]

Great answer TVFan, you always have great perspective on these things.
I'll have to check out The Badlands thing, I've never noticed that.
I remember Kathryn saying something like that to and I totally agree. It's much more fun trying to work stuff like this out. Makes a good case for discussion.

[boxman]

tvfan said:

...I did notice the same scenes in the finale, too. I think that Scotty wants to reach out to Lil and be closer with her, but he knows how she is and he knows what he did. Even though Lil may forgive him now, he knows that she doesn't forget....

Well, you know what they say? Never upset a guy who has girl problems. That's why Scotty just *had to* beat up that perv at the library.... ;D

[boxman]

HOLY COW!!

I'm watching my recordings of season three and just watched "Sanctuary"....

boxman said:

... But I have to say that this episode [Sanctuary] seems to be filled with double-entendres, symbolisms, and very interesting camera shots, juxtapositioning etc etc. I think this episode is like season one's "Best Friends" in that it's bridging the past with the present and into the future of season four. (I've posted in the "Best Friends" thread my theory that the episode bridges Jeffries' story arc from season two into season three's "Bad Night")

Lying. Marriage. Rush. Under cover.

Hmmm.... This episode is really looking like a veiled Scotty & Lilly story arc for season four.... all these details just dangling in front of our faces to see if we pick up on them....

Remember in "Sanctuary", how Scotty was brought into Stillman's office? Stillman and Lilly were in there and he had to admit blowing his cover in the drug operation. In that conversation (before the "Rush"-filled flashback), Scotty said this (as he's looking at Lilly):

Scotty: "Look, I guess part me wanted her to know. Wanted her to call me. So I could save her..."

Huh. And who eventually called him one day...so he could "save" her?? Hmmm.... Very interesting!!

[sonny]

Interesting observation boxman

[boxman]

Speaking of "Water" as a symbol of "Personal Change"....

I didn't get a chance to mention this earlier: This episode had a quite a number of very interesting shots and scenes in them. First and foremost, is a scene where Lilly and Kat are meeting the Robinsons over at the youth center. At first, Lilly's shown in a juxapositioning with the poster that says "...An Illusion". Nice hint there... but a hint at the episode about Joseph's death? Or a hint about an illusion about our thoughts and beliefs about Lilly's character?? Hmmm.... I guess we have to tune into season four.. ha ha ha.. And then, a few moments later, Lilly is show in a juxtapositioning with the poster that says "Power Comes From Within", with water ripples surrounding Lilly's head. VERY, VERY COOL!! That Water....i.e. Personal Change... That "Power" comes from "Within". I like that!! Even more uber-cool is the little droplet above Lilly's head...just like a light bulb above her head turned on... Very interesting thought to leave us with here at the end of season three. Looks like more Lilly stories and backstories in Season Four to me.

Interesting about the "Illusions" poster is that the colours and stark diagonal angle looks kinda looks like "The Scream". Anyone care to interpret this possible symbolism?

I also found it humorous that the youth center was funded by Mr and Mrs Robinson... as in "Mrs Robinson" from "The Graduate"?? ha ha ha.... Very funny to me because "The Graduate" was one of the first movies I learned as a high-school student how to analyse symbolisms, juxtapositioning, and so forth...

[TVFan]

Great catches with those posters boxman! I had noticed them, but I never thought about their relationship to Lilly. I really like your thoughts here.

[boxman]

tvfan said:

Great catches with those posters boxman! I had noticed them, but I never thought about their relationship to Lilly. I really like your thoughts here.

Yeah, well, I just notice these things... It's the people who put this show together that are outstanding enough to put it in there in the first place. Again, that's why this show is so special.

Of course, the show's theme song starts with "The Scream".... But did everyone get a chance to read the Wikipedia link for "The Scream"?? Let me point out some really nifty things:

"...[The Scream] is said by some to symbolize modern man taken by an attack of existential angst."
--Like Lilly? Living in angst as an adult from her rough Kensington upbringing??

"[Edvard] Munch was a classic example of an artist who used his own mental and emotional traumas to channel great art."
--Again, like Lilly?? Using her emotional traumas from youth to build a productive career, excelling the poor adult life her mom lived??

Although I'm not sure if the poster at the Robinson House is an abstract image of a body of water, the background of the painting is indeed a Norwegian fjord--again, another reference to Water.

"At the time of painting the work, Munch's manic depressive sister Laura Catherine was interned in the mental hospital at the foot of Ekeberg."
---This is yet another weird connection to people being institutionalized in this episode. (This episode alludes to the 1944 film, "Laura", and the actress who played her was hospitalized for depression a few years after the movie was filmed.) Several references to mental institutions are explicitly and symbolically referenced to in this show. Why?? Hmmm.... I still haven't figured that one out yet.... And of course, rather coincidentally (??), the sister of the artist is named "Laura", the same name as the other allusion in this episode..

[KathrynFan]

if anybody lives in new zealand it's going to be screening this wenesday i cant wait

[koufax]

RE: THE JOSEPH CHARACTER
I just read in today's Hollywood Reporter(July 13) that Kenny Johnson, the actor that plays Joseph will do four episodes on CC. Wonder if that means eventually he will be written out of the show?

[LillyKat]

koufax said:

RE: THE JOSEPH CHARACTER
I just read in today's Hollywood Reporter(July 13) that Kenny Johnson, the actor that plays Joseph will do four episodes on CC. Wonder if that means eventually he will be written out of the show?

Thanks for the info, koufax ... I like that Kenny's role is getting a little HR coverage.

( *** If mods need to move this post over to Spoilers, go ahead ... wasn't sure if I should respond here or not ... ***).

Further confirms what has been posted over in the Spoilers folder for the first episode(s) of the season ... I'm kind of hoping that they've only just written the beginning arc of the story in the first 4-5 eps of the new season, building off of what was established in the finale, and thus, don't as yet know perhaps how many more additional eps in which Joseph will appear. Would be nice if he could stay around a while ... really wish they would stick with trying to give Lilly a bit of balance between having a life, and being top homicide cop.

[longislanditalian2]

Okay here's my thoughts on this episode

My theory is that Lilly might have had a mini emotional breakdown, all work and no love can really tore through her. Her heart really needs some love, it's like all those feelings that were bottled up deep inside are now coming to the surface

On the other hand, Stillman should have known that Lilly was still going to go to the farm, she did that last season and disobeyed orders. At least send someone just to be on the safe side

Getting back on track,I think the writers tried too much in making Joseph be Lilly's soulmate. I really did like him, they both seemed at ease with each other.

Kathryn really did a great job portraying Lilly's emotions especially the scene when Scotty came to her house. One thing got me; When Scotty mentions that he gets the mixed emotions thing and she smiles at him. Maybe she is feeling what he was when Elissa died meaning , that he was all alone and confused on who to love before her sister came back to town.

Scotty really does care for her a lot , not in a shipper kind of way but in a close friendship. John Finn did an excellent job of protraying Stillman's angry towards Lilly, but he was a little too harsh . but the question is why didn't he noticed that she was falling apart before this whole case?

The second the last scene in the bar , the empty chair really made me question things. Was Lilly fired , or punished? Scotty looked sad that she wasn't there and Stillman had a face that could kill. All and all, Joseph really seems like a stable guy that could be there for her emotionally, after all he is a counselor.

I cannot wait for Season4 a new love maybe in fact bring back the old Lilly that we all love

[samanda]

Re-Air Date: 9/10/06 (SUNDAY)
Time Slot: 10:00 PM-11:00 PM EST


As you can see, this episode is airing at 10 pm instead of the usual 9 pm.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

I liked the show, but there were some things that seemed alittle not so realistic. For example Lilly's treatment of the case seemed a bit odd to me.

But then again it wasn't until the middle of Season 3 that I really started watching CC and I'm sure there's alot I've missed.

[coldcasegirl]

I wonder why the time changed...? Oh well of course I will still be watching it! I just love watching the 'creation' of such a GREAT relationship! ;D

[TVFan]

I believe it's because CBS is airing a 911 special from 8-10 p.m.

[coldcasegirl]

OK gotcha TVFan Thanks

[longislanditalian2]

There was a pull right when Joseph and Lilly first met, maybe it was fate that brought them together that night.

[michelle]

I had to revisit this thread to say. . . I stand corrected.

Let me publicly concede and say that I must now admit that Yes, OK, it is realistic that someone you barely know can somehow get inside your head and fill your thoughts and fuel your imagination and make one act in ways they normally otherwise would not and do things they otherwise would not do.

Life's lessons come about in strange ways.

NOW, I can understand what previously appeared to be just craziness on Lilly's part.

I'll say again. I stand corrected.

Let the adventure begin.