Episode 3.16: One Night

[Tati]

Boxman, I think I did answer your question. Let me quote myself:

tatiana said:

As much as Lilly might be self-demanding, I don't think she puts those situations in the same level.

That specific sentence meaning, she won't have any empathy towards Scotty, in my opinion. Because if she were to have any empathy, she wouldn't be so disappointed by his lie about Anna in Sanctuary (in Sanctuary, we didn't know Lilly's feelings about George, but they were already there. I don't think the interrogation in this episode was what made her realized those feelings).
Now, even if she could have any empathy, I'm not sure it would influency her relationship with Scotty. So, I don't think her lack of empathy makes the relationship any worse.

[boxman]

tatiana said:

Boxman, I think I did answer your question. Let me quote myself:

tatiana said:

As much as Lilly might be self-demanding, I don't think she puts those situations in the same level.

That specific sentence meaning, she won't have any empathy towards Scotty, in my opinion. Because if she were to have any empathy, she wouldn't be so disappointed by his lie about Anna in Sanctuary....

See, I view it as the opposite. If Lilly had absolutely zero empathy towards Scotty, she'd be thinking something like, "Oh boy. Here we go again. When is Stillman going to get rid of this guy?" I'm inclined to think that Lilly would be seriously talking with Stillman about removing Scotty from the CC team and putting him back into the regular homocide department.

I think disappointment shows that somewhere, Lilly has a very small bit of empathy towards Scotty in order to give him those fourth, fifth, sixth chances. She may be fed up, but it doesn't seem to me that she's at the end of her ropes--at that point of "Irreconcilable Differences", so to speak.

Now, even if she could have any empathy, I'm not sure it would influency her relationship with Scotty. So, I don't think her lack of empathy makes the relationship any worse.

Personally, I think it does. The more Lilly could feel empathy towards Scotty and his screw-ups, the more likely she may consider a more personable relationship with him. (Not necessarily romantic.) They don't seem as if they can talk about what they did over the weekend, discuss the latest news headlines, or even laugh together over a joke they share with each other. They can only focus on the case they're working on. Her minimal amount of empathy, in my opinion, also has a touch of selfish vengeance, putting them in the awkward position of having to maintain a "working relationship" with each other. Uncomfortable and worse, don't you think??

If I were in Scotty's shoes, I'd be close to the point where I wouldn't want to deal with Lilly and her issues, no matter how much wrong I did. I'd feel that it's not up to her to make me kiss up to her. Even if I was wrong in anything, I still have self-worth and wouldn't let her rub my pride in the dirt--that's up to me to do, not her. Really, what more can Scotty do to improve their relationship? I think he's already tried in good faith to open up communications with her. What does Scotty need to do to appease her? In my opinion, I find the ball to be in Lilly's court. Things are on the "worse" end of the scale and can get better only if Lilly makes the move to have more understanding towards him--an understanding that begins with a little more empathy. Of course, she still has the option not to... What do you think?

[ecooper516]

Boxman,
I agree with Tati. It was Scotty that lied to Lilly numerous times. She does not have to further the WORINIG RELATINSHIP.-he has to stop his lies to further his macho image: that he MISTER PERFECT.

[boxman]

ecooper516 said:

Did everyone see that Entertainment Weekly rated Cold Case as the number two procedural show

Do you have the date of this issue? I don't see the article on their on-line edition, so I'm not sure if it's worth searching for at the stores..

[ecooper516]

HI BOXMAN,
The issue was March 31, 2006(the latest)

[Disasterfreak]

have mixed feelings about this episode. It was a good, clean-cut season 1 like episode--something I appreciate. There were some really good character moments as well. Scotty's interrogation of the killer was scary! He was really convincing as someone who was into boys, like he really knew what he was talking about. I have no doubt in my mind he was faking it... but maybe the inspiration came from his deepestmost feelings? Like what I said on the chat, many true womanizers hide a gay man at heart.

I dunno about you, but my favorite part of the episode was when Vera was talking. I'm not sure exactly when, but there was a moment in which you could tell he got carried away, kinda like Lilly does, and he was talking out of true experience, about his wife, about being strangers, about her sticking by him all these years even though he was sick. Vera? As in, he can't have kids? I understand now where you guys were coming from when you mentioned him being sterile/impotent during the chat.

I hate to say it, but I honestly didn't like the scene where Lilly talks about her 10 yr old experience. It was too much, too soft, too perfect. Either she was meant to be deliberately lying to persuade the killer to give his locus amoenus, or it was a badly written speech. I didn't buy it at all as a genuine Lilly experience. Served its purpose though. And I don't for one minute believe (as some of you mentioned during the chat as well, and in other places) Lilly's first run in with death was in that room with George. Either she got it clear through her head after her 49 she was a mortal being and could be hurt, or she learned to deal with it in such a way she felt nearly immortal again, and that having happened, I hardly think being nearly shot by George would bring her mortality back.

One thing I adored was Lilly's ecstatic look at the end of the episode, when she saw the kid (Justin?) alive and whole. THAT made up for the phoney locus amoenus thing.

Ok, now if you will forgive me I will go back and read everyone's posts and double-post. Don't kill me, ok?

[Disasterfreak]

Ok, here comes double post:

Myril: thank you for pointing that out about MS. It bothered me too--bad choice for an illness. Interesting likeness to being buried alive, but I woulda chosen something more fatal, like Huntington's for example. But oh well.

Sonny: I noticed the time hints too! And while they didn't exactly give me the sense of urgency (I didn't really feel that's what this ep was about, it was way more of a whydunit), they were still appreciated.

TVFan: you are so right about Lilly having good interrogation moments. At the beginning she was in full-on season 1 mode. Had her hair been up, I woulda been convinced it was a S1 ep. It's just the last part I didn't buy. The writers are overdoing it IMO, this Lilly-getting-honest-spilling-out-life to get a confession. I honestly think she made up the bike moment, though come to think of it it's true happiest moments are almost always childhood day-to-day life moments. And you really do feel at the time you'll live forever (or at least that death is very very very far away).

I wanted to add... it sounds kinda stupid reading my first post that Lilly shouldn't have felt "mortal" when in the attic with George, because of course, no matter how well adjusted she might be after her 49, being held at gun point can never be good. However... I always got the feeling that wasn't what really shook her up about the whole experience. I always felt it was this digging into her 49, exposing her life, her faults... and her own failure as a detective for putting herself in danger.

Childhood traumas are unfortunately always worse than grown up traumas... because you can't process them adequately at the time. And Lilly's 49 is pretty much as bad as it can get.

[boxman]

ecooper516 said:

HI BOXMAN,
The issue was March 31, 2006(the latest)

Thanks, I tried looking at my local drugstore, but they only had an older issue. Maybe I'll check later or somewhere else....

ecooper516 said:

Boxman, I agree with Tati. It was Scotty that lied to Lilly numerous times. She does not have to further the WORINIG RELATINSHIP.-he has to stop his lies to further his macho image: that he MISTER PERFECT.

Well...given the fact that Scotty decided he needs to change (which I would totally agree, we haven't seen him doing yet), I think that it would be unhealthy for Lilly to maintain distance with him, and to not allow some minimal amount of cordiality to develop:

We each play many different social roles with the people we come in contact with. For Lilly, she's a co-worker to her CC team, a sister to Christina, daughter to her parents, and detective to the public.

I find "season three Lilly" rather troubled by her lack of strong social relationships with people she should have closer bonds with: her family and people she sees daily. (Specifically in Lilly's case, the people she sees daily are only her co-workers as she doesn't seem to have girlfriends and isn't seeing a steady guy.) Instead, like others have pointed out, she seems to make stronger social bonds and connects easily with people she least needs to make bonds with: the general public she investigates.

The general public should be Lilly's least important social group because they're not people that she needs on a long-term basis. In fact, since these are people she's eventually going to lock up and put away, they are the ones that she should maintain a professional, working relationship with. Sure, she can have empathy for them, but spilling her guts out to a psychopath is rather odd..

In my opinion, Lilly needs to create stronger social bonds with the people she's in contact with more frequently (that is, her co-workers), if she's ever to re-establish contacts with her family and eventually develop a steady relationship. Or it could also be the other way around, where her family or a beau can bring her closer with her co-workers (so she can hang with them as a friend when they have problems). Either way, Lilly seems to prioritizes her social bonds backwards right now....

This just makes me think of "Lover's Lane", where Lilly got so involved talking with the boyfriend of the murdered girl late at night, at just about the moment when her and Kite were getting intimate. If I was Kite, I'd probably do the same thing: Break it up with her the next day. Obviously, Lilly has more feeling--more empathy--for those individuals she sees on a fleeting basis rather than the ones she's supposed to have a longer-term relationship with.

So this is why I'm hoping to see a glimmer of empathy from Lilly to Scotty. Not for a romance to begin, but for some other changes to occur in Lilly where her social relationships aren't inverted as they are now....

[TVFan]

Excellent Lilly analysis boxman! It is odd that she makes these stronger connections with total strangers than she does with those closest to her. I think it has to do with the fact that she knows that her fleeting relationships with "the general public" are temporary and never too deep. She doesn't run the risk of getting hurt with these people, nor does she worry about them betraying her trust or that she'll get too close. Everyone close to her has hurt her or betrayed her or both. I think this is why she has decided that the comfort of perfect strangers is far better than those close to her. This is why I think she should find someone who helps her open up more and realize that not everyone is out to hurt her.

[Tati]

I agree with Boxman's analysis about Lilly's relationships, and with TVFan's reasoning for her to act the way she does. Now, I'm not sure I want her to change. First, I don't think she can get rid of most of the emotional scars she has - for her to start building "normal" relationships, it would take years - and probably more years than the show will have. And if it all happened, she wouldn't be the Lilly we know anymore. I have a thing for emotionally troubled characters,so I want to tune in to CC and still see my problematic, closed-up Lilly. In terms of entertainment, I wouldn't enjoy Lilly so much if she started mending her emotional problems.

[Disasterfreak]

Me either, Tati.

[TVFan]

Oh, I totally agree Tati. I just realized it sounded like I WANTED her to find someone who can teach her to let others in, when I was actually just saying that that's what she NEEDS. I like the broken character that she is, and I don't want that to change. That doesn't mean that I don't want her in a relationship (b/c we all know it's no secret that I do), but I don't want the relationship to change her. As you stated, it would take years anyway.

[boxman]

Ewwwww... I can't believe so many of you want to see Lilly continue to be tormented by her demons!! ;D

I'd like to continue this discussion on the "Analyses" thread (in the General Discussion section) since my reply pulls in things from other episodes, including the stuff we discussed in the later episode, "Superstar". Unfortunately, it'll have to wait 'til later after I get stuff around the house done. I also havta take my car in for its annual inspection. More later!

[Tati]

boxman said:

Ewwwww... I can't believe so many of you want to see Lilly continue to be tormented by her demons!! ;D

I'd like to continue this discussion on the "Analyses" thread (in the General Discussion section) since my reply pulls in things from other episodes, including the stuff we discussed in the later episode, "Superstar". Unfortunately, it'll have to wait 'til later after I get stuff around the house done. I also havta take my car in for its annual inspection. More later!

I'm looking forward to read your thoughts, Boxman!

[boxman]

I thought I could continue this in the "Analyses" thread, but somehow after I wrote this, it looks more appropriate back here. Sorry if some of the ideas here are written a bit incoherently, but I still have a lot of things to do outside of being on the internet!

Well, I wish I could find the time to go more into detail, but basically I think most individuals in Lilly's shoes need to come to a "tipping point" before they change. A boyfriend won't really affect Lilly's character much until she starts to see her situation regarding relationships differently. (Unless she starts dating a psychologist, which I doubt is her type.) Lilly coming to this "tipping point" could be months, years, ...or even days, given the proper conditions. She has to be at a point in her life where she's tired of being disappointed with her relationships (i.e. her sister, mother, co-workers, and boyfriends), doesn't want her life to continue as it has, and most importantly, is open-minded towards gaining a new and broader perspective of her condition regarding these long-term relationships. In my opinion, without gaining the broader perspective, she's doomed to repeat her ways of doing things as she always has.

So what will happen in Lilly's future? We know that a couple of juicy episodes regarding her family life are coming up soon and at the end of the season. We'll see soon enough if the producers and writers will take her this way. My personal opinion is that they will explore changes in Lilly's life and character. Otherwise, they wouldn't delve so much into the personal lives of the CC team. By comparison, in "Close to Home", Jennifer Finnigan also plays a tough female lead, but she has a man to lean on in her well-balanced personal life. That's one reason why "Close to Home" offers less drama surrounding their lead character. I think one psychological area the Cold Case writers want to explore is how imperfect protagonists change over time--that's why everyone on the CC team has terrible personal lives. (And this is one way that I think Cold Case attempts to expand on the Film Noir and Neo-Noir genre of crime stories.)

But anyway, this is why I'm interested in seeing small indications of change in Lilly's personal character, as well as why I'm looking closely at how she feels about "white lies" in her police work. If Lilly develops a closer relationship with Kat and begins to forgives Scotty more, I see it as a possible indication that her character will undergo changes in the future. Unlike the rest of you, I think a person can have a cold, tough exterior, yet be personable as well. I don't think improvements in Lilly's personal life need to affect her ability to be a tough cop. I'm looking forward to seeing changes in her character, rather than seeing her return to her "season one" personality (that I don't really admire).

[samanda]

Re-Air Date: 8/6/06 (SUNDAY)
Time Slot: 9:00 PM-10:00 PM EST

[coldcasegirl]

GREAT, because I totally love this episode. I think my favorite part would have to be when Lilly is telling John about she wished she had never went into the attic, and the way she almost starts to cry...OMG, it's so cool

[Naj]

This is my first post about this episode and I'm basically feeling the same on the rerun as I did when I first viewed it. This had all the elements of a great Veena episode. The similarity of a George killer. The detectives were all on in this ep but it couldn't save it. Everyone was all on except the older John with MS. The whole story revolved around his ability to sell the terror of his actions to his victims. And it came off like a dud firecracker. Some felt that Veena did a great job at separating this killer from George when I couldn't help compare him and was bored. Yes they made him lifeless but it took away from the case.

All the interrogations were riveting on the detective side but it was like there was no one for them to talk to. The young John with MS was very convincing and it's a shame they couldn't have written this story with more flashbacks.

Steve was such a cutey and I remember him for the CBS Hallmark movie this season as well. And Justin I liked the added side story of his friend.

I like how Veena has Lilly address some of the George experiences. We can always count on Veena to give us Lilly back story. Also I liked how Lilly and Stillman worked together on this one. In that respect this episode was more reminiscent of a season 1 case with the detective pairings which I miss.


The ending montage and song are great!

I will say this about the episode, if Veena can make more episodes like this for season 4 with the regular detectives then I'm in. This should have been a best of the season ep but I can't give it for the portrayal of the killer was too weak.

[longislanditalian2]

Talking about the stages thing at the end, when Jefferies is escorting John his cell, It flashes from his at age 20 something when he first committed his first murder, 17 when he felt he could live forever, and now at age 50 a murderer.

[mikencelia]

This episode was set up to be a psychological tour de force for everyone. It was written and directed in such a way that it gave each actor the opportunity to show what they got. They all did a fantastic job, however, the story was ridiculous. Why? Because the way it was played out would never factually happen like this. MS is not a fatal disease and just having tremors means little. Also, the way the detectives handled the interrogation was all wrong.

My brother is a high ranking homicide man and he said it would NEVER play like this in such a situation. He was so annoyed that he kept calling me at different parts and explaining what was worng with the whole police investigation. He said the police would never spend so much time sharing all these thoughts and background info. And poliice would never share personal info with any suspect, although they would fabricate as much as they needed.

This episode was just a way to show off everyone's acting abilities, and give background info into their characters.