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Post by longislanditalian2 on Mar 21, 2006 11:25:43 GMT -5
it is odd about the way the Lilly just is realizing her own mortality , Maybe she is too proud and thought she would live forever but after looking up at the barrel , Lilly realizes that none lives forever and she should enjoy life moment by moment ..Maybe that childhood moment was a sign of a rebirth of life, maybe that's the only time she ever felt happy ,feeling the wind in her face signal that she is free and the negetive enegies deep inside her have been realised
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Post by sonny on Mar 21, 2006 11:55:43 GMT -5
I really don't think it's the only time Lilly has felt happy, as TVFan said. It is just a happy moment in which all fear probably subsided and she felt truly aware of how alive she was. I think we all have moments like that, I know I have.
I think Lilly would be seriously odd if she thought she would live forever but rather it became a much more stark reality when actually faced with the prospect of being that close to dying. I mean, we all know we are gonna die one day and we live with it, but the actual moment when you think you will die must bring on a whole new set of thoughts; [for Lilly riding her bike].
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Mar 21, 2006 12:04:20 GMT -5
I think there must be another point in her life beside lilly on her bike ,wehre she was truly aware of being alive. Maybe something else happened that day beside riding her bike that brought on this memory. I think when she looked down at the barrel of the gun, it made her realize something about herself in a lot of ways , one being that she can't go through live hiding in the shadows of her past, number two ; she can't go through life without being lvoed or loved by another and finally that she never stops to think how much life is precious and that there are openings in every phase of life , if you don't enter them you might be missing out on something.I think during the interrigation with John, Lilly had learned a lot and how fast life goes and if you don't hold on to the things that are precious you might lose it forever. Lilly might have though she might have lived forever, as kids we all think that but as we hit another life cycle we learn it's not going to be possible and learn just to enjoy whatever life throws at us .
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Post by sonny on Mar 21, 2006 12:14:12 GMT -5
I think there must be another point in her life beside lilly on her bike ,wehre she was truly aware of being alive. Maybe something else happened that day beside riding her bike that brought on this memory. I think when she looked down at the barrel of the gun, it made her realize something about herself in a lot of ways , one being that she can't go through live hiding in the shadows of her past, number two ; she can't go through life without being lvoed or loved by another and finally that she never stops to think how much life is precious and that there are openings in every phase of life , if you don't enter them you might be missing out on something.I think during the interrigation with John, Lilly had learned a lot and how fast life goes and if you don't hold on to the things that are precious you might lose it forever. Lilly might have though she might have lived forever, as kids we all think that but as we hit another life cycle we learn it's not going to be possible and learn just to enjoy whatever life throws at us . Yeah but I bet at that point she wasn't trying to select the most significant point in her life! It was something she automatically remembered. I agree that since the incident she probably does realise she can't keep 'hiding in the shadows.' But knowing it and actually doing something about it are totally different especially if you've been guarded practically your whole life. That is perhaps why we haven't seen major changes in Lilly [in her dedication to work and the lack of social life], and that although the Ray thing was a controversial thing to do, at the end of the day she still put her job first despite the fact she is so obviously hot for him. She is trying to make changes but she either doesn't know how to or is reluctant to venture outside her comfort zone, which is her dedication to her job above everything. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Mar 21, 2006 12:26:12 GMT -5
I agree Sonny, she does nwant to venture out of comfort zone but a part of her wants to . As for ray he is nothing but a memory , she loved him long ago but she is older and wants to have someone to love for the rest of her life. Lilly wants to live day by day not in the past , she knows she can't hid behind closed doors for the rest of her life. Work maybe her only sanctuary but isn't shouldn't be her life, a lack of a social and lovelife has made her a little crazy. Her heart wants love that it never got when she was a child but her mind doesn't want ot trust anyone. I think looking down at the gun made her stop and think and reanalize her life. So she let's down her hair and tries to do things differently, but when she is faced with John that night , i thinked something clicked inside of her . She saw this man only obession was with death , she saw pain in his eyes the same pain she felt in S1 and S2. Somehow it was like her relfection staring at her from across the room , he took his life for granted believing that he could live forever . When john started before you die your whole life flashes before your eyes, Lilly stated only one, this might have been a nervous reaction . She wanted to tell him but was afraid that he might drill into her like george once did. Maybe she was scared of what she had saw when looking down at the barrel, maybe it was her own fear or demise that she didn't want to see what she really was like and how her life was only focused on work.
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Post by sonny on Mar 21, 2006 12:36:12 GMT -5
I'm sure John only said he had heard that your life flashes before you. Because he hadn't been that close to actual death like Lilly had he didn't actually know what you saw. Lilly was correcting him, saying that it was for her, in fact only one moment.
I don't think she was emotionally effected by John any where as near as George. She didn't fear him because he didn't know anything about her apart from what he read in the paper, and she knew that John was no threat to her unlike George. George knew everything about Lilly and targeted her as one of his victims, John didn't, so they are incomparible IMO LLI.
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myril
Veteran Detective
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Post by myril on Mar 21, 2006 13:55:57 GMT -5
That Lilly picked that one moment was interesting. I immediately had to think of the end montage of The Sleepover (2x06), Lilly "seeing" Rita on her bike riding down the street (it was sunny day though in that scene). What a nice arc. It might be surprising, but for some exactly such little, beautiful, peaceful moments define happiness, are when you feel most alive, not big turning points or events. And it was about remembering how good life could feel, the blissful moments where life seems like it never could end. Lilly wanted John to remember that he at least once felt like that too, and even if you have to face that life won't last forever, you still can live and enjoy it. She tried to give John a chance to let go, finish this awful story in a good way by giving Justin a chance to survive.
And I hadn't the impression that Lilly was in any way scared in that scene, quite the opposite. It was not easy to talk about it, sure emotional, but she wasn't hesitating. It was like she had worked some things out for herself lately, after the confrontation with Georg and death. Could be in this night, while talking with John and trying to save Justin's life, she finally came to terms with some things in her life as well. Not to mention that it was a different situation, as Sonny said before. Georg kind of catched Lilly off guard, but with John she was in control all the time.
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Post by sonny on Mar 21, 2006 14:30:39 GMT -5
Excellent point in raising Rita riding the bike! Maybe that adds further reason to why Lilly sees the 'ghosts' at the end of the episode. Maybe it is more about Lilly seeing them at peace the way she wants to rather than it being the victim showing her their choice of what brings them peace. Do you get what I mean? It's kinda hard to explain. She imagined seeing Rita happy riding her bike because subconsciously that is what she recalls as being an event that made her feel happy and full of life. I'm no good at this delving deep into meaning stuff! Boxman, take over! :smile41: :smile41:
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Post by ewka on Mar 21, 2006 15:33:51 GMT -5
"You read about me in the papers" -- yeah, yeah, of course, everyone, especially the freaked out guys living in Philly read papers and all of them read that huuuge article about what happened to police officer Lilly Rush with George Marks. She is sooo famous that people come to the PD just to meet her. Yhy yhy aha aha... I find this line just stupid.
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
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Post by boxman on Mar 21, 2006 15:49:22 GMT -5
"You read about me in the papers" -- yeah, yeah, of course, everyone, especially the freaked out guys living in Philly read papers and all of them read that huuuge article about what happened to police officer Lilly Rush with George Marks. She is sooo famous that people come to the PD just to meet her. Yhy yhy aha aha... I find this line just stupid. You find it unlikely that police officers are in the papers? |
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Post by sonny on Mar 21, 2006 15:56:33 GMT -5
"You read about me in the papers" -- yeah, yeah, of course, everyone, especially the freaked out guys living in Philly read papers and all of them read that huuuge article about what happened to police officer Lilly Rush with George Marks. She is sooo famous that people come to the PD just to meet her. Yhy yhy aha aha... I find this line just stupid. Do you not get that kind of thing where you live? If a serial killer had been shot by a cop here it would be big news. Probably not just in the newspapers either. We have to remember George killed 9 peole over a lot of years. That warranted that 'huge' article we saw Lilly reading in the season premiere. I think many people would have read about it. |
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Post by ewka on Mar 21, 2006 16:15:09 GMT -5
boxman, sonny --> Unlikely that everyone reads these articles, as far as I know Philadelphia is a biiig city. My town is very small and all the news come fast, but nah, still not satisfied ;>
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myril
Veteran Detective
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Post by myril on Mar 21, 2006 16:41:39 GMT -5
Excellent point in raising Rita riding the bike! Maybe that adds further reason to why Lilly sees the 'ghosts' at the end of the episode. Maybe it is more about Lilly seeing them at peace the way she wants to rather than it being the victim showing her their choice of what brings them peace. Do you get what I mean? It's kinda hard to explain. She imagined seeing Rita happy riding her bike because subconsciously that is what she recalls as being an event that made her feel happy and full of life. I'm no good at this delving deep into meaning stuff! Boxman, take over!  Think I got what you mean. And agree, Lilly (or others) see the "ghosts" in their minds, they're not really showing up. So it's the version of the one who see the "ghost" (made visible for us tv viewers), we see only what Lilly or Scotty or the others think or picture, no more no less. So it would be sort of logical that it displays parts of their views, feelings and even unconciousness. And might even be that the one person of the team (or in some cases it had been someone else) sees the "ghost", that related most to the case or the victim. haha, boxman, you are inspiring me... your thoughts? :smile87: |
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Post by TVFan on Mar 21, 2006 16:51:33 GMT -5
I live in the 9th largest market in the country, and anytime an officer shoots anyone it makes the nightly news (usually one of the top stories) and it's all over the papers the next day. Now, if one of them shoots and kills someone, then it's even bigger. A serial killer would more than likely be national news. I think it's just a cultural thing. Our country is obsessed with such things. Nice catch with Rita and the bicycle myril! And I think that you and sonny are definitely onto something.  |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
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Post by boxman on Mar 21, 2006 17:33:55 GMT -5
Excellent point in raising Rita riding the bike! Maybe that adds further reason to why Lilly sees the 'ghosts' at the end of the episode. Maybe it is more about Lilly seeing them at peace the way she wants to rather than it being the victim showing her their choice of what brings them peace. Do you get what I mean? It's kinda hard to explain. She imagined seeing Rita happy riding her bike because subconsciously that is what she recalls as being an event that made her feel happy and full of life. I'm no good at this delving deep into meaning stuff! Boxman, take over! Think I got what you mean. And agree, Lilly (or others) see the "ghosts" in their minds, they're not really showing up. So it's the version of the one who see the "ghost" (made visible for us tv viewers), we see only what Lilly or Scotty or the others think or picture, no more no less. So it would be sort of logical that it displays parts of their views, feelings and even unconciousness. And might even be that the one person of the team (or in some cases it had been someone else) sees the "ghost", that related most to the case or the victim. haha, boxman, you are inspiring me... your thoughts?  I agree with both of you folks here about the 'ghosts'--that they could mostly be just how the person who 'sees' them wants to see them. This is mostly because of how the show presented 'ghosts' in the episode, "Bad Night". If I recall correctly, the first was Jeffries helping his wife change the flat tire, then grabbing her to get out of the way from an oncoming truck. That is definitely Jeffries wishing how things were, not Jeffries seeing an actual ghost of his wife Mary. The second 'ghost' appeared after Lilly hugged Angus' mom. (Angus was the kid who died at the theatre.) After the hug, Lilly looks onto the road and sees Angus and Vicky driving on the road together. Well, Vicky wasn't dead, she was still alive and stuck in a wheelchair. So that 'vision' was clearly Lilly imagining how things could have been different for Angus at that instant of time, and not Lilly seeing an actual pair of ghosts in a car. That was the only episode I've seen 'ghosts' presented this way, though. So it still could be that the characters may sense actual spirits on some occasions, and sometimes its just wishful thinking.... :smile10: |
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Post by sukkerspinn on Mar 21, 2006 20:46:22 GMT -5
Ok, there's one thing I've been speculating about for a little while.
Remember Lilly told that guy about her bike-memory? And she said she was 10 when riding the bike. So this must have been the same year as she was attacked by that man on the street, right? Do you guys think it was before or after the attack?
If it was before the attack, she might have felt that way she described because she hadn't experienced danger that way yet,
but if it was after the attack it might have been feelings of happiness for being alive.
Something in me believes it was before it all happened, but I dunno..
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
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Post by boxman on Mar 21, 2006 23:32:34 GMT -5
Ok, there's one thing I've been speculating about for a little while. Remember Lilly told that guy about her bike-memory? And she said she was 10 when riding the bike. So this must have been the same year as she was attacked by that man on the street, right? Do you guys think it was before or after the attack? If it was before the attack, she might have felt that way she described because she hadn't experienced danger that way yet, but if it was after the attack it might have been feelings of happiness for being alive. Something in me believes it was before it all happened, but I dunno.. Before makes sense... If this memory was after, then well, frankly there's about twenty years of other memories to remember (such as the night of her first kiss, etc.). But if this ride on her bicycle is the most happiest memory in her days of innocence before her attack, then another thing becomes significant... I can tell you the first time I ever rode on a motorcycle it was unbelievable! It was just like riding a super-powerful bicycle!! Riding a motorcycle is like having a bicycle that you can fly at a hundred-miles-an-hour without pedalling! Thus Lilly's attraction to riding motorcycles...'bikes' ...and McRay?? Sweet!! |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
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Post by boxman on Mar 22, 2006 0:26:49 GMT -5
I'm going to put some of the other things I remember from the chatroom here, because I feel they can use furthur discussion:
Jeffries wife not only was killed during an attempt to change a flat tire in the rain, but she was also driving a Cadillac.
John Doe identifies Jeffries as being in 'Anger' or 'Stage Two' (of the five stages of dying).
Scotty's interrogation 'technique' gave us a few laughs and 'what-if' guesses...
This episode got pretty heavy in revealing the possible depth of Vera's marital problems.
Some mentioned how strange it is that Lilly can open her past up so easily to complete psychos, yet be clammed up towards regular people.
This episode probably had the most shortest flashback, Valentino's recollection of Justin's abduction only a few hours back.
Justin mentioned to Valentino about "Thelma & Louise", two girlfriends that seem a reference to Billie & Rose going off the bridge in "Best Friends" and to gay relationships.
I wondered if 'M.S.' not only refers to multiple sclerosis...but also a pun of sorts to "Meredith Stiehm"?
Also, Justin chose the park because that was his happiest moment in his life before his mom died in an auto accident--before he became an orphan. Along with Steve's abduction when fixing a tire, this seems to fit the automobile-crime association.
ETA: Everyone mentioned how much they like Jeffries. There was some talk about how it was nice that it seems that he's taking Kat in as a protegé; and also, how Lilly and Stillman also seem to have a mentor-protegé relationship too. Both Stillman and Jeffries seem to be approaching retirement and must be thinking of 'passing the baton'. Kat seems to have the potential to do some good for Jeffries, considering how he's a widower and has no kids.
ETA: We took a straw vote and everyone agreed that Lilly is in her thirties. Not exactly sure where, though.
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KathrynFan
Lilly Rush
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Post by KathrynFan on Mar 22, 2006 3:57:36 GMT -5
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Post by ewka on Mar 22, 2006 8:23:38 GMT -5
TVFan --> maybe you're right, I do not live in USA, but I don't think it would be so breaking news in my country.
Btw, I must say "ouch", I did not notice the first time watching he said he read about Lil in the newspaper, so she's just referring to his words. Sooorry...
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