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Post by anneinchicago on May 9, 2010 21:40:16 GMT -5
Just a few random thoughts.
First, while I can understand wanting a season eight and wanting to know more, this seemed, at least to me, a satisfying ending. No matter when the series ends, we will always want more. Lilly has always been the main character and she now has a family. She's reconciled with her dad and we can assume Christina. And she has a niece to cherish. Closure all around. Perfect.
As for Scotty and what he did to his mother's rapist. All I can say is how many of you pointing a finger and saying how awful this was, have honestly never said how some crim- They should just take him out and kill him. Save the taxpayers some money. The guy probably won't stop and you can bet, in this day and age, he's not going to be in jail long.
All in all, I haven't been happy with this season. Almost Paradise and Shattered, however, were outstanding.
And btw and off-topic, Without A Trace ended well, I thought. Especially the final scene with missing persons flipping backwards to the very first case.
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ali
Senior Detective
Social One[/color]
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Post by ali on May 10, 2010 14:40:59 GMT -5
Hi everybody! A loooong time has passed since I wrote something here on the board...but in spite of my crazy life I never forget Cold Case  . Well, the season finale: very good, but honestly, I was expecting something more for a season finale and a possible series finale (I'm still praying for a season 8  ), and I agree with anneinchicago: This could be a perfect, rational and happy end: not a great ending, but a nice one as well. Apart from those considerations, I liked the episode, and I particularly appreciated: the chemistry between Lilly and Scotty, the phrase "You lied in my face" (I thought "Uhm...I have déjà vu!), and the flashbacks of little Lilly and Christina. Good acting, good tension, and good music! Vote: 8/10  |
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Post by Electrophile on May 10, 2010 14:49:07 GMT -5
As for Scotty and what he did to his mother's rapist. All I can say is how many of you pointing a finger and saying how awful this was, have honestly never said how some crim- They should just take him out and kill him. Save the taxpayers some money. The guy probably won't stop and you can bet, in this day and age, he's not going to be in jail long. I'm well aware of the recidivism rates for sexual assault and how if a man rapes once, there is a greater than 65% chance he will rape again. That doesn't mean however, I approve of vigilante justice, whether in real life or in the fictional world of a TV show. I abhor rapists as much as the next person, but whether it's a fictional cop or a real one, police officers should not be abusing their authority and their badges by having perps killed who either assaulted/killed someone they know or someone they don't. That's not what a cop's job is. So yeah, I've lost a bit of respect for the character of Scotty Valens because that's not how the justice system is supposed to work. The episodes that contained this story arc showed they had plenty of evidence to lock the guy up on multiple rape charges, so it's not like they had nothing and the guy was going to walk the streets the next morning. Scotty abused his badge and his position of authority as a police officer to have someone killed. That's murder. I don't care if the guy was the scum of the earth and would have been killed in prison anyway -- that call wasn't his to make. I hope if there's a season 8, that arc is explored. |
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Post by ninja1088 on May 10, 2010 22:58:54 GMT -5
I'm well aware of the recidivism rates for sexual assault and how if a man rapes once, there is a greater than 65% chance he will rape again. That doesn't mean however, I approve of vigilante justice, whether in real life or in the fictional world of a TV show. I abhor rapists as much as the next person, but whether it's a fictional cop or a real one, police officers should not be abusing their authority and their badges by having perps killed who either assaulted/killed someone they know or someone they don't. That's not what a cop's job is.
So yeah, I've lost a bit of respect for the character of Scotty Valens because that's not how the justice system is supposed to work. The episodes that contained this story arc showed they had plenty of evidence to lock the guy up on multiple rape charges, so it's not like they had nothing and the guy was going to walk the streets the next morning. Scotty abused his badge and his position of authority as a police officer to have someone killed. That's murder. I don't care if the guy was the scum of the earth and would have been killed in prison anyway -- that call wasn't his to make.
I hope if there's a season 8, that arc is explored.[/quote]
Agree 100% with your post Electro. If nothing else, look at episodes like The Plan,Blackout,Revenge,Greed. The killers were far more likeable,sympathetic than any of their slimeball victims and yet they still got taken in. Why? Because they took the law into their own hands.
There is a reason we don't allow people to take the law into their own hands.
If we start making exceptions for when murder is justifiable, it becomes a slippery slope.
Many of the Cold Case doers, even the more cold blooded ones like the racist killers in Spiders or Who's Your Daddy or Blood On The Tracks, thought they were justified in the killings they did. How could Scotty tell them differently now when he committed a cold blooded murder himself?
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
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"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605 
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 11, 2010 0:49:56 GMT -5
Cold blooded murder? Unless the prisoners were supposed to be mind controlled weapons, it was them who murdered the guy. All Scotty did was give them the 'purpose' for them to do so.
Wrong? Yes. Cold Blooded murder? No.
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Post by ninja1088 on May 11, 2010 2:34:45 GMT -5
Sorry RB, strongly disagree with you on this one. Scotty went to visit an friend from his old neighborhood who just happened to be an inmate at the same prison his mom's rapist was and pretty much put a bull's eye on the guy's back. He and the inmate in so many words discussed who the guy was and what happens to scum like that in prison. He and the inmate both knew exactly what Scotty was implying should be done to him.
As for not doing it himself, it didn't stop people like the boss in Start-Up,the racist mother in Spiders,the girl in Rampage,the sister in Lotto Fever and the bank robber in Dog Days Afternoon from being arrested. They didn't commit the murder either,they just gave the "purpose" to the actual doer(s). If nothing else, unless they all look the other way, there is no way Scotty could keep his badge.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 11, 2010 8:36:56 GMT -5
Yet Scotty did the same thing, and you said that he committed 'cold blooded murder'.
I'm not condoning his actions, but there's a huge difference between murdering someone yourself, and giving the actual killers the purpose to do so. I mean, if Scotty committed 'cold blooded murder' then maybe he should receive life in prison, or the death penalty.
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Post by ninja1088 on May 11, 2010 9:54:59 GMT -5
At the very least, he should be arrested, just like the rest of them were. And yes the majority of them were cold blooded killers (minus Tina). If nothing else in most states, the fact he didn't do the killing himself is besides the point. You don't get brownie points for setting the whole thing in motion and getting someone else to do the diry work. If there's a season 8 (keep the fingers crossed),it will be interesting to see how it plays out. If nothing else, I could very well see Doherty trying to use it as a bargaining chip in order to get a lesser sentence for his son.
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Post by Electrophile on May 11, 2010 11:14:33 GMT -5
You don't have to physically take a life to be a murderer. If you conspire to kill someone, which Scotty did, you can absolutely be prosecuted and convicted of murder.
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Post by stillmanfan on May 11, 2010 11:39:15 GMT -5
You don't have to physically take a life to be a murderer. If you conspire to kill someone, which Scotty did, you can absolutely be prosecuted and convicted of murder. I don't think that would constitute murder though. Now, an accessory to murder, or conspiracy to commit murder, yeah. |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 11, 2010 12:11:53 GMT -5
Exactly. Unless Scotty was going inside the prisoners heads, and mind controlling them (thus making prisoners weapons), then he's guilty of accessory or conspiracy to murder.
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Post by ninja1088 on May 11, 2010 12:19:24 GMT -5
You don't have to physically take a life to be a murderer. If you conspire to kill someone, which Scotty did, you can absolutely be prosecuted and convicted of murder. Exactly Electrophile. I know, it's tough (it still is for me) to see one of my favorite characters become a murderer. But the fact remains Scotty did conspire with someone else to have another person killed. Most states don't see a difference between the person who set the wheels in motion for the murder to occur and the person who actually did the killing. Scotty visited his friend with one purpose and one purpose only...to put out a hit. The mind controlled robot argument wouldn't work with some of the other killers I mentioned... and it wouldn't work with Scotty either. |
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Post by Electrophile on May 11, 2010 12:23:59 GMT -5
You don't have to physically take a life to be a murderer. If you conspire to kill someone, which Scotty did, you can absolutely be prosecuted and convicted of murder. I don't think that would constitute murder though. According to the laws on the books in this country, it absolutely does. If myself and Reverend Bizarre discuss killing you, and during this conversation we talk about the layout of your house, what your schedule is, what weapon would leave the least mess, that sort of thing, and TRB kills you.....I am just as guilty of that murder as they are, even though I personally never stepped foot in your home and laid a hand on you. I was a party to the crime. I knew the details of the crime and was complicit in it. I never reported TRB to the authorities or told the police what was going on. I am a murderer and will in many jurisdictions, serve the same jail sentence as TRB. Take Charles Manson, for example. He never killed any of those people. He was never in the LoBianca's house nor was he ever in the Tate residence. But he told his "followers" where to go, provided them with weapons and he was sent to death row all the same. Even though he never actually killed anyone. So yes, you CAN be considered a murderer in the eyes of the law even if you haven't actually taken a life. |
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Post by Electrophile on May 11, 2010 12:32:40 GMT -5
Exactly. Unless Scotty was going inside the prisoners heads, and mind controlling them (thus making prisoners weapons), then he's guilty of accessory or conspiracy to murder. I'm sorry, but that's not true. If you hand a person a loaded gun, tell them "go kill that person over there" and they do it, you're a murderer. You told them to kill someone and then provided them the weapon to commit the crime. Saying that because YOU didn't physically pull the trigger, you're not guilty/responsible/a murderer yourself is trying to rationalize away your complicity in the act. That's what Scotty did. He told that inmate that the person he wanted dead was a rapist, said that the person was doing a lot of "singing" (talking) about them and then walked away, TOTALLY understanding the rules of prison and the way prisoners mete out punishments against other prisoners. Rapists and child molesters are on the low end of the totem pole anyway and killing one is considered a badge of honor in jail. So he knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it. He's a murderer in the eyes of the US justice system. This being a fictional TV world, I don't know how they'll choose to handle it, should there be another season, but if they gloss over it, skip it or let him skate -- I'm going to be extremely upset. |
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Post by stillmanfan on May 11, 2010 12:39:56 GMT -5
This is going to be on very interesting plotline IF there is a season 8.
If there is or isn't, this will be interesting with fan fiction writers to. I've already come up with an idea concerning Stillman and I gotta wait till we know for sure but maybe I can still do it...
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 11, 2010 14:28:49 GMT -5
Well, whatever, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree with each other on this one. If two of you want to say that Scotty is a cold blooded murderer, then fine. But, color me surprised that neither of you seem to be advocating having Scotty sent to life in prison, or being put on death row.
Because to me, 'Cold Blooded Murderer' = 'Heartless Monster that deserves life in prison, or death.'
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Post by Electrophile on May 11, 2010 15:47:41 GMT -5
Well, whatever, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree with each other on this one. If two of you want to say that Scotty is a cold blooded murderer, then fine. But, color me surprised that neither of you seem to be advocating having Scotty sent to life in prison, or being put on death row. Because to me, 'Cold Blooded Murderer' = 'Heartless Monster that deserves life in prison, or death.' I never said he shouldn't be punished for what he did, if the show continues and the story is written to include his interactions with that inmate being made public. Also, there are degrees of murder. 3rd degree, 2nd degree, 1st degree. Only 1st degree murder has mandatory life imprisonment and/or death penalty. 3rd degree murder and 2nd degree murder having varying sentences based on the nature of the crime. How involved in the crime was the defendant, if they were not the party that directly caused the death? How old is the defendant? What was their mental state at the time? Were they under the influence? Not all murder demands life with no parole or a needle jammed in your arm. He should absolutely go to jail, no questions asked. He was involved in someone's death, albeit indirectly. He should still be punished though; but if in real life he wouldn't get life or the death penalty, I would not support the character getting it. |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
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"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 11, 2010 16:18:33 GMT -5
I never said that you didn't say Scotty shouldn't be punished.
But, fine, Scotty got a bit hot tempered, and had his mother's rapist killed. Should he be punished? Yes; but is he a cold blooded murderer? No, I don't think so. Scotty had his reasons for doing this, and I know I know "but vigilante justice isn't right." but it's not as if Scotty killed the guy just for giggles and kicks.
And that's where I mostly disagree with you and ninja on; because at least one of you is saying that Scotty is a cold blooded murderer. Something I don't agree with.
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Post by Electrophile on May 11, 2010 17:17:52 GMT -5
I never said that you didn't say Scotty shouldn't be punished. But, fine, Scotty got a bit hot tempered, and had his mother's rapist killed. Should he be punished? Yes; but is he a cold blooded murderer? No, I don't think so. Scotty had his reasons for doing this, and I know I know "but vigilante justice isn't right." but it's not as if Scotty killed the guy just for giggles and kicks. And that's where I mostly disagree with you and ninja on; because at least one of you is saying that Scotty is a cold blooded murderer. Something I don't agree with. Vigilante justice is taking the law into your own hands. As a police officer, he above anyone else should understand that the justice system doesn't work that way. It doesn't matter what his reasons were. Were they understandable? Of course; this man raped his mother. But that doesn't mean he had the right to have him killed. Scotty may not have had the guy killed for his own amusement, but that doesn't make him any less responsible for that death than the inmate that stabbed him to death in the shower. I wouldn't call him a "cold-blooded murderer" either, but what he did is in the eyes of the law, murder. The fact he's a cop......in real life, he would probably end up getting double the sentence a civilian would get for doing the same thing. |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 11, 2010 18:39:08 GMT -5
I know what vigilante justice is.
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), and I agree with anneinchicago:
