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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 25, 2006 18:23:54 GMT -5
I'm not DisasterFreak, it's more from an emotional stand point..
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Post by schafferius on Oct 25, 2006 19:45:31 GMT -5
Naj,
Thats a really good point you make. I didn't notice it but now that you mention it, it does seem to imply that it has happened so much that part is worn. Nice catch!!
Hey DF,
Love your kill lill picture thingy....hehe
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605 
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Oct 25, 2006 20:41:22 GMT -5
In both Pics she's frowning.
Man I am a terrible person and deserve to die.
But anyways I don't believe her holding the stomach is a symbol of pregnancy. When a person is dumped they can experience physical pain. One of these is what I like to call the "Goat shoved down your Throat" syndrome. Your throat, chest, and stomach hurt alot. Feels alot like someone shoved a goat down your throat.
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom 
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Oct 25, 2006 22:24:23 GMT -5
Well, THAT's true. I don't take it as a symbol of pregnancy either... in fact, the idea of Rush being knocked up gives me the creeps. ;D I just thought someone else might start speculating on that and the writers would think we want it (Heaven forbid).
The Goat shoved down your throat. Very descriptive. It's the feeling of mourning.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Oct 25, 2006 22:57:24 GMT -5
Yep, feeling of mourning.
I do wish that Lil could stay with someone, because as I mentioned earlier, she's already being portrayed as the stereotypical "Cat Lady"
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Post by schafferius on Oct 26, 2006 3:07:35 GMT -5
Yeah I agree....absolutely nothing to do with pregnancy.....i thought holding the stomach only happens when women know they are pregnant as a sign of comfort (not that I would know anyway). Apparently its the heart that is supposed to hurt when a separation occurs......but after just separating from my 4 year relationship I felt sick and anxious in my stomach...I can only assume that the writers are trying to instill the same feeling in Rush....Anyone else had that???
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Post by eli on Oct 26, 2006 9:13:35 GMT -5
schafferius - exactly!!! Why is that anyway..`  It doesn't even make any sense.... but somehow i got the exact same feeling after broking up with one I really cared about. BTW, this "Lil and the pregnancy"- thing is REALLY starting to get kinda boring. I think that if she would ever had been pregnant it would have already came up, especially if it would had been that much a big deal to her. After all the speculations there still isn't any "truely" taking evidence of anything like that.... Sorry, but I just needed to say that.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 26, 2006 9:33:43 GMT -5
I wasn't speculating about that, Or course I don't want to see Lilly pregnant either.. It's just that I was comparing when Kite broke up with her to when Joseph dumped her now. I was going with the pangs of emptyness not a pregnacy that would ruin the entire show.
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Post by jambled on Oct 28, 2006 8:54:43 GMT -5
So did it seem to anyone else that Lil's personal life just got a send off?
Loved this ep though. Loved it. Case was great. Characters were great. There were sideways glances amongst the team when Lil's phone kept ringing. Ray was there. There was a makeout scene in a hospital. And Ray was there. Lol. Do love the Ray. And the case was more than great. I loved it. Showed a nicer side of Scotty. And Vera taking his tie off was laugh worthy. I love Vera. He's just so... Vera.
disasterfreak- I officially love you. In a non creepy kind of way. But that comment made me laugh out loud. I identify, but in the same vein we'll have to agree to disagree because I absolutely love the personal life stuff. Am a sucker for the angst. I'm kind of glad Joseph broke up with her; Roses and sunshine was getting to be a drag.
Meanwhile, I do have a bit of an annoyance. I mean Joseph was like 'I love you... definitely' and then... Well, then the 'insert choice swearword' just gives up? What the? Way to write him out. Pfft. You think he'd put up a bit more of a fight. I mean sure, no one wants to be anyone's consolation prize (although I'd be BE's consolation prize. Hee) but she said she wanted to be with him... There's a hot, blonde detective you love standing in front of you and you're like nah, sorry.
AND another thing that may have been covered but I'm going to rant anyway; wasn't Ray's last name Williams last time around? What the hell happened?
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jazzyb
Desk Clerk II
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Post by jazzyb on Oct 29, 2006 13:36:11 GMT -5
Not that I am as down on the whole personal stuff thing as DisasterFreak but I'm glad the whole love triangle thing has gone bye-bye. I can't help but be annoyed by Joseph who played ghost-o for a year (that's still a bit screwy if you ask me) but expects total commitment after a few weeks(?) return to civilization. Both he and McRay had their issues and she's better off without them both.
I mentioned last season that half the detective squad needs some sort of mental health counseling and if Lilly continues on her current path she will certainly move to the head of the line. Many of you have mentioned that she has to realize happiness emanates from within and she won't find it with fringe-dwellling bozos like Ray and Joseph or the self-absorbed Kite.
And oh, I liked the episode except for the kid Doug as the killer. His motivation wasn't compelling enough and he didn't seem like the cold-blooded type like the misanthropic youth in "Rampage".
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Oct 29, 2006 21:16:27 GMT -5
Okay, now I'm gonna wack my brain as to what was discussed ![]() 5. Boxman brought up some symbolism in reference Scotty. In regards to the last scene where water and fishes were all around Brent's room. It was mentioned of a Greek mythology of a God, lcarnus? I think..  Scotty might be punished with his actions of beating up that perv? However, we did point out to Boxman that an episode of water would refer to Elisa who Scotty was close to, but she killed herself by drowning in the river. Irishkale mentioned about the Movie the GodFather with a scene "Fishes Sleep" - Please correct me, I remember that scene, but I forgot what you exactly said, Irishkale.  Anyway... it was Icarus, I think, and I REALLY didn't understand the analogy, so hopefully Boxman will explain it again tonight. And the phrase was "sleeping with the fishes", I think. Not entirely sure, but think that was it. Sorry I couldn't get back sooner. I'm going to post my reply here in this thread, since it has much to do with the episode. In the chatroom, we talked about three different interpretations of the imagery of Scotty in the Underwater-themed bedroom at the end of "Saving Sammy". I think this imagery is significant, yet it is much more obscure and cryptic than the imagery of Lilly in front of the water-themed posters (at the offices of Robinson House) in last season's "Joseph". One word we came to describe Scotty's "above the law" behaviour is "Hubris". The word has Greek origins and is described by Aristotle this way: "Hubris consists in doing or saying things that cause shame to the victim, not in order that anything may happen to you, nor because anything has happened to you, but merely for your own gratification. Hubris is not the requital of past injuries; this is revenge. As for the pleasure in hubris, its cause is this: men think that by ill-treating others they make their own superiority the greater."
Anyway, Scotty definitely displayed this kind of behaviour when he punched out the so-called "pervert" in the episode "The River", as well as when he confronted David Lake in season one's "Late Returns". As a general rule, Scotty quite often wrongfully presumes a suspect is guilty on very skimpy evidence. He has a slight tendency to enjoy shaming others in order to promote his superiority.
The word "Hubris" is most associated with the tale of Icarus. Wikipedia has a detailed description of the Greek tale, but essentially the story of Icarus can be summarized as "a moral lesson about the danger of hubris, suggesting that someone who dares to fly too close to the realm of the gods will suffer for it." So in Scotty's case, the more he commits these acts that are "above the law", the more he risks getting burned by the authorities above him.
Most people know only the brief summary of the tale of Icarus. In actuality, it is also in a way a story about *water*. Icarus was imprisoned on an island, isolated by the Mediterranean Sea. He built his wings to escape from it, but because of his Hubris, he flew too close to the sun and ended up drowning in the sea. So if we correlate Scotty's hubris with the tale of Icarus, the visual imagery of Scotty being underwater tends to follow Icarus' tragedy. We can interpret the imagery of Scotty being underwater as a foreshadowing of Scotty's demise due to his hubris. Maybe this means that the judgment and punishment Scotty issued to the so-called "perv" at the library will lead to his demise??
People mentioned that Elisa died by drowning. Perhaps the imagery of Scotty being underwater means that Scotty will also soon "Sleep with the fish"?? I think Irishkale broght that up, and he explained that it was a phrase from "The Godfather". Perhaps Elisa's death was not accidental or suicidal, but associated with murder?? And that Scotty might be next?? Hmmm..... Anyway you look a this interpretation, it doesn't bode well for Scotty...
A third interpretation of Scotty being underwater can be understood by the previous episode "Baby Blue". It was shown in "Baby Blue" that being underwater was can be associated two ways:
1) Underwater --> Drowning --> Murder
2) Underwater --> Baptism --> Purification/Rebirth
We do know in the Christianity-heavy episode "Sanctuary", that Scotty is seeking to reform himself. In that episode, there was the scene between Scotty and Vera on the balcony that vaguely hinted at a confessional, where Scotty recognized and admitted to his weaknesses. If we take this view of being underwater, then the imagery in "Saving Sammy" could be foreshadowing Scotty's reform.
Which one is true?? Hmm... Two negative and one positive... Still, this one's a tough call and certainly more vague and ambiguous than the one with Lilly. |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Oct 29, 2006 21:27:09 GMT -5
Interesting theory, Boxman. The evidence is a little sketchy (I think the writers would have to be geniuses to have planned the show out THAT far, and researched THAT much on greek mythology) but I admit it fits. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me! I don't know if they're hinting at some ominous future for Scotty; in a way I hope not because I'm just starting to like his character again and it would be like when they killed Shannon on "Lost"--losing him at the moment I'm connecting with him the most. But it's certainly a possibility. These shows are always looking for some way to shock us, and killing off a main character is as efficient a way as they come. I personally HATE it, but these shows love it.  |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Oct 29, 2006 23:41:31 GMT -5
Interesting theory, Boxman. The evidence is a little sketchy (I think the writers would have to be geniuses to have planned the show out THAT far, and researched THAT much on greek mythology) but I admit it fits. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me! Sure! Now the word "Hubris" is something the Cold Case writers used as a season one episode title. If anything, they are the ones who planted that Greek word (with all its associations) into our vocabulary. It would surprise me more if the writers didn't know about Icarus, after all, they should be much more knowledgeable about western literature than the average person.... Keep in mind that there is a positive interpretation of this "Scotty underwater" visual... It could be a foreshadow of something good for Scotty too. This one is definitely very open to interpretation... |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Oct 31, 2006 20:06:16 GMT -5
I hope so, Boxman. I hope so.  |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 31, 2006 20:10:52 GMT -5
Maybe Lilly does want to be alone deep down inside, maybe she happier being alone but doesn't want to admit it. Maybe a part of her wants to be loved but she can't keep herself together emotional when she's in a relationship
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canuckiepen
Desk Clerk II
I watch Cold Case...It's how I stay human
Posts: 77
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Post by canuckiepen on Nov 4, 2006 8:44:58 GMT -5
About the key. The key in this case was I believe the key to Joseph's place. By making the key Joseph was wanting to go to the next level. In a way that key symbolizes Joseph. What is interesting is that while Lilly pushes away the key a metaphor for pushing Joseph away, she does not completely knock the key off the couch. It is still there, and still within her immediate reach. In the scene where they were splitting up, Joseph had said, "I left your key on the table". I understood the key Joseph had, to be Lily's spare key to her apartment. He rejected her, hence she will "push the key (representing him)- away. |
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Post by eurache on Nov 8, 2007 6:22:11 GMT -5
RE-AIRS NOVEMBER 13, 2007
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Feb 21, 2008 12:39:48 GMT -5
Cool article about autism at ABCNews.go.com:abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4311223&page=1Autism Breakthrough: Girl's Writings Explain Her Behavior and FeelingsDoctors Amazed by Carly Fleischmann's Ability to Describe the Disorder From the Inside By JOHN MCKENZIEFeb. 19, 2008— Carly Fleischmann has severe autism and is unable to speak a word. But thanks to years of expensive and intensive therapy, this 13-year-old has made a remarkable breakthrough. CLICK HERE TO READ CARLY'S ANSWERS TO VIEWERS' QUESTIONS.Two years ago, working with pictures and symbols on a computer keyboard, she started typing and spelling out words. The computer became her voice. "All of a sudden these words started to pour out of her, and it was an exciting moment because we didn't realize she had all these words," said speech pathologist Barbara Nash. "It was one of those moments in my career that I'll never forget." Then Carly began opening up, describing what it was like to have autism and why she makes odd noises or why she hits herself. "It feels like my legs are on first and a million ants are crawling up my arms," Carly said through the computer. Carly writes about her frustrations with her siblings, how she understands their jokes and asks when can she go on a date. "We were stunned," Carly's father Arthur Fleischmann said. "We realized inside was an articulate, intelligent, emotive person that we had never met. This was unbelievable because it opened up a whole new way of looking at her." This is what Carly wants people to know about autism. "It is hard to be autistic because no one understands me. People look at me and assume I am dumb because I can't talk or I act differently than them. I think people get scared with things that look or seem different than them." "Laypeople would have assumed she was mentally retarded or cognitively impaired. Even professionals labelled her as moderately to severely cognitively impaired. In the old days you would say mentally retarded, which means low IQ and low promise and low potential," Arthur Fleischman said. Therapists say the key lesson from Carly's story is for families to never give up and to be ever creative in helping children with autism find their voice. "If we had done what so many people told us to do years ago, we wouldn't have the child we have today. We would have written her off. We would have assumed the worst. We would have never seen how she could write these things how articulate she is, how intelligent she is," the grateful father added. "I asked Carly to come to my work to talk to speech pathologists and other therapists about autism," said Nash. "What would you like to tell them? She wrote, 'I would tell them never to give up on the children that they work with.' That kind of summed it up." Carly had another message for people who don't understand autism. "Autism is hard because you want to act one way, but you can't always do that. It's sad that sometimes people don't know that sometimes I can't stop myself and they get mad at me. If I could tell people one thing about autism it would be that I don't want to be this way. But I am, so don't be mad. Be understanding." Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Feb 24, 2008 23:22:17 GMT -5
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pealee
Detective
Ray's Woman[/color]
Bring Back EDDIE:)
Posts: 383
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Post by pealee on Feb 25, 2008 19:45:18 GMT -5
I was wondering were I could find the clip of the kiss scene with Lilly and Ray. I'm getting a friend hooked on CC and I wanna show her this scene. But I can't find it on youtube. Does anyone know where I can find that clip for her??
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It doesn't even make any sense.... but somehow i got the exact same feeling after broking up with one I really cared about. 
Scotty might be punished with his actions of beating up that perv? However, we did point out to Boxman that an episode of water would refer to Elisa who Scotty was close to, but she killed herself by drowning in the river. Irishkale mentioned about the Movie the GodFather with a scene "Fishes Sleep" - Please correct me, I remember that scene, but I forgot what you exactly said, Irishkale. 
