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Post by eli on Oct 17, 2006 13:28:29 GMT -5
About that if Lilly had a baby once.... I think that this was exactly kind of episode where it would have been brought up if that would be true. Sure it's possible that she have had an abortion or misscarrige or something like that, but if she would have deliver a baby the reaction on this case should have been different. Now there was no signs of anything like that. And I could have imagine something like that in season 2 Lil's past at some point, but now it just seems a little pit too surreal. But never say never... thought, it would be a very suprising and interesting twist of plot if her adopted kid would show up or we would she her visiting Baby Rushes grave in some day  About the episode.... it was good. Not exactly as emotial than I had thought, but it still very touching. Losing a baby is pritty much the most terrible thing that can happen. Even the mother was the one who killed Iris, I can't really blame her. That she killed her own daughter without knowing what she was doing..... *oh jesus*.... The part where Lilly told about that abandoning thing her mother did to her and her sister, I don't think she was making that up. Thought, her mother was a drunk who didn't really take care of her kids that doesn't sound something she even needs to fabricate. It sounds pritty "normal" actually. BTW, Ray looked so sad when he was looking that milkshake (or what ever) at the end. I so hoped that Lilly would have showed up, but no..... BTW he didn't even look that bad as I expect him to be. The bruisings in his face looked at least a few days old. He must have been at the hospital couple of days, calling her a few hundred phonecalls before getting her to come and see him there. Poor guy... |
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coldcasegirl
Lilly Rush
Sleuthing for Clues [/color]
Posts: 2,279
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Post by coldcasegirl on Oct 17, 2006 14:47:31 GMT -5
Ok this HAS to be one of the BEST episodes I have ever seen! The case was awesome, and so was the drama with Lil and Ray. I can't believe they knew each other when they were just kids! She is still completely in love with him and acts like 'Joseph who?'...lol, she doesn't need to blow Joe off, but her and Ray are so great for each other!  As for the case: It was really sad but sooooo good! The characters were awesome and the way it kept twisting back and forth to who actually killed her! Lilly rocked, yet again, and it was neat to find out more about her past life with her mom (AND Ray ;D) And she was building up tears like crazy!  And at the end, when Kathryn talked, she looked to gorgeous! I love seeing the 'CBS Cares' commercials when she is on them! I totally loved this episode! The best of season 4 so far! Can't wait til next week! ;D |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 17, 2006 15:33:08 GMT -5
I think Lilly holding Ray's hand is an act of long term friendship nothing more then that. She want to find happiness but it isn't going to be found in him, her cases, Joseph or her cats.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605 
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Oct 17, 2006 19:48:43 GMT -5
myrilAnother thing to consider too is that certain ambulances are done in blue, and they use this color as a symbol of hope. Then there's also the logo for Blue Cross and Blue Shield which again is done in all blue.
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Post by Naj on Oct 18, 2006 12:21:26 GMT -5
I thought that the young boy Tanner Blaze Whitlock playing Devon did an excellent performance. It really makes me wonder how they get someone that young to come off so believeable in his part.
Someone mentioned the husband and his inabilty to help his wife check on the child. Well to me this was the mentality of so many men (sorry if I offend) back in this time period. Not wanting to help and just wanting all the attention from the wife. You know like she is the 24/7 provider for everyone else. I've never understood perception from married men before because when you get married and have kids you both have to be responisible to the children and not always your own selfish needs and figure out a way to have private time and time to yourself. Anyhow the depiction of the husband was right on.
I was a bit ambivilent when they began the ep showing two working women in a business but then this was a place around a large city and it did actually work out quite well. I thought maybe they'd choose a small hometown wife that maybe worked outside the home.
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Oct 18, 2006 12:38:36 GMT -5
I thought that the young boy Tanner Blaze Whitlock playing Devon did an excellent performance. It really makes me wonder how they get someone that young to come off so believeable in his part. Ohh!! I so *totally* agree! I'm completely amazed with all the kid actors they find for this show! Another thing to consider too is that certain ambulances are done in blue, and they use this color as a symbol of hope. Then there's also the logo for Blue Cross and Blue Shield which again is done in all blue. The blue, when used in conjunction with an infant, does imply an infant *boy*, though. Pink would've been a more appropriate color for Iris. But then, we wouldn't have the title "Baby Blues" and its association with PPD, would we?? A slight "inconsistentcy" again?? Speaking of... Kat is wearing a "black leather jacket" in this episode. Four episodes into the season, and in each one there's some strange (and seemingly inconsistent) symbology surrounding her.. Hmmm..... |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 18, 2006 12:53:20 GMT -5
I still believe that Lilly had a miscarriage, it makes perfect sense in this episode. Epecially how emotional she was at the end, maybe something did happy maybe with Patrick who we know nothing about.
It's not hard for me to believe that the mother took Iris outside in the snow, was she fully aware of what she was doing? The way that they laid in the snow reminding of the religious painting of Madonna and Child for some reason.
I hated the husband he should have been more supportive of her and tried to help her out. I felt for the brother Devon, who had blamed himself all of those years. This whole episode there were tears in Lilly's eyes, even at the ending scene Scotty could see her pain.
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kadoom
Desk Clerk II
Look Again Music Video Competition Winner 2008 [/center][/color]
Posts: 71
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Post by kadoom on Oct 18, 2006 13:35:25 GMT -5
I still believe that Lilly had a miscarriage, it makes perfect sense in this episode. Epecially how emotional she was at the end, maybe something did happy maybe with Patrick who we know nothing about. I thought Lilly's behaviour in that episode made it clear that she never had a child / was never pregnant. We've seen how the detectives that are parents reacted to the case. Stillman was reluctant to open it again, because it would open an old wound again, Kat thinking about how she would react if something happened to Veronica. They identified with the parents. Lilly didn't, she identified with the child - a child that died because it wasn't protected. That's why she was so emotional at the end, because she had an awful childhood herself, because she wasn't protected - she even told the mother about it. So everybody's reactions were influenced by their own experiences. In my opinion, Lilly would have behaved differently if she ever had lost a child. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 18, 2006 14:59:30 GMT -5
Wait a minute in the episode " The house" Lilly says she lost her number 1 smile a long time ago ,was this another Lilly white lie?
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Post by riche on Oct 18, 2006 15:13:07 GMT -5
I thought Lilly's behaviour in that episode made it clear that she never had a child / was never pregnant. ...Lilly didn't, she identified with the child - a child that died because it wasn't protected. That's why she was so emotional at the end, because she had an awful childhood herself, because she wasn't protected - she even told the mother about it. I agree. Although I went down the 'did Lil lose a baby' route I concluded it was more likely that it was more of a 'there but for the grace of god' thing. She explained that her mother locked them in the house with food and disappeared for days, and perhaps it was better than the alternative. The 1st Ray scene certainly put the kybosh on my theories in the Sandhogs thread. Clearly they've known each other longer than that. Ray helped Lil years ago and she's been repaying him ever since. Good episode. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 18, 2006 22:02:57 GMT -5
What was the alternative that Lilly was talking about
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Post by riche on Oct 19, 2006 3:22:19 GMT -5
What was the alternative that Lilly was talking about The alternative was her mother staying with them. If she was drinking a lot then she might have hurt Lilly and her sister. Locking them in the house, as bad is that is, was the safer option. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 19, 2006 8:22:17 GMT -5
Poor Lilly of all she's been through she is still strong , Why didn't Child Protective Services remove her and Christina and give her a better life??
I think this episode was excellent from the filming to the script , it would be better if Ray wasn't in this one but Kathryn really shined in this one.
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Post by scottyandlillyfan on Oct 19, 2006 9:21:10 GMT -5
It was a GREAT episode. Very emotional by all. In terms of Lilly's love life, I don't think she knows what she wants. She is clearly torn between both Joseph and Ray but she trying to force being with one of them. In my opinion she should not be with either one but with Scotty maybe down the road. I think her and Scotty have a lot more in commen than either one of them know. Loved the last scene Kathyrn and Danny have a lot of chemistry together. The writers need to give them more screen time together.
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Oct 19, 2006 12:48:15 GMT -5
I still believe that Lilly had a miscarriage, it makes perfect sense in this episode. Epecially how emotional she was at the end, maybe something did happy maybe with Patrick who we know nothing about. I thought Lilly's behaviour in that episode made it clear that she never had a child / was never pregnant. We've seen how the detectives that are parents reacted to the case. Stillman was reluctant to open it again, because it would open an old wound again, Kat thinking about how she would react if something happened to Veronica. They identified with the parents. Lilly didn't, she identified with the child - a child that died because it wasn't protected. That's why she was so emotional at the end, because she had an awful childhood herself, because she wasn't protected - she even told the mother about it. So everybody's reactions were influenced by their own experiences. In my opinion, Lilly would have behaved differently if she ever had lost a child. Good observations and interesting analysis, Kadoom |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Oct 19, 2006 21:09:46 GMT -5
IMO Lilly would have been more sympathetic towards the mother had Lilly ever had a child/been pregnant.
But good observation kadoom. It seems that Lilly is greatly upset, because she's epathizing with this child that never really got a chance to live.
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Oct 19, 2006 23:26:03 GMT -5
Here's the official link for the "Journey Diamond Jewelry" commercial: journey.adiamondisforever.com/If you have a slow internet connection, the commercial is also posted at YouTube.com: While both websites have the full 1:00 minute version of this commercial, a shorter 0:30 second version came on during the break at about 43:00 minutes after the episode started. This commercial was very interesting to watch in the context of this episode. The "Dandelions" commercial visually follows a pair of dandelion seeds as they are blown from a field, through a big city, then to the shore. The seeds' journey symbolically represent a couple as they travel through life: The Field represents Youth, the Big City represents the Adult working years, and the Shore represents retirement and "old age". The changing phases of the sun from morning, mid-day, to sunset reinforce the idea of the passage of time. Two additional minor scenes transition between the three major scenes. The first shows the two dandelions entering a forest. They both maneuever successfully through a dew-filled cobweb, but one eventually gets caught on a wet tree branch. Luckily, a gust of wind comes along, and the trailing dandelion seed is able to catch up with the other. This "dark forest" scene seems to symbolize the trouble most people get into during their adolescent/young-adult years between Youth and Adulthood. Forests are commonly used in fairy tales and stories to indicate dark transitional periods, where a protagonist may face their worst fears and emerge stronger, wiser, more experienced, and more matured. There are many examples of this: Little Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretel, Alice in Wonderland, Luke Skywalker's experience in the forest of Dagobah in The Empire Strikes Back, episode 2F15 "Lisa's Wedding" from The Simpsons... and so forth. The second transitional scene briefly shows two horses running free. This seems to indicate the freedom from the working world (the previous scene), into the period of Retirement. The journey of the two dandelion seeds follow the path of a *river*. It begins as a stream in a field, then as a bigger river that approaches the big city, then as a large harbor, then finally an ocean. The growing size of the river is visually matched by the increasing size and "S" shape of the diamonds in the jewelry at the end of the commercial. This matches the tagline for the commercial (and ad campaign): "With Every Step, Love Grows". There are other nice touches to this commercial I've noticed. Like Cold Case, the use of an automobile in the city indicates a near-tragic situation. The use of water (as the river and dew), also symbolizes personal change (and in this commercial, water also represents growth). The horses indicate freedom in the commercial, though I still haven't fully grasped their significance in appearing so often in Cold Case. Finally, uniquely in the commercial, all four earthly Classical Elements of ancient civilizations (air, earth, fire, water)--plus the fifth spiritual element (known as spirit, ether, quintessence, love, and so forth)--constantly appear throughout the commercial. Earth is always visible, Air appears as gusts of wind, Fire as the sun (or the bright lens flares), Water as the river, and of course, the paired dandelion seeds represents Love and spirituality. This commercial underlined the importance of shared experiences in a relationship. I found it ironic that here's Ray--who's probably not the best guy for Lilly given his criminal involvement--but who also shares a lot of history together with her. In contrast is Joseph, who is "technically" perfect for Lilly in many ways, yet doesn't have the same history. I have to admit, that as one of Ray's worst critic (see my comments in "Dog Day Afternoons"), this revelation of thier past threw me into a complete spin!! I'm not a strong believer in the "soul mates" or "kindred spirits" idea of love, yet that's all I could think about the two by the end of the episode. That Ray just might be the right guy for Lilly, given their decades-long history together. It could just be that Ray's current troubles--plus the fact that he might loose Lilly for good this time--could be his "dark forest" experience that finally matures Ray into a more responsible person, decent enough for a police woman to be dating.... You know, because you never know when a gust of wind might come along to push you in the right direction towards the one you're supposed to be with. |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Oct 19, 2006 23:38:01 GMT -5
Yeah, after this episode I'm leaning more towards Lilly and Ray.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 20, 2006 8:24:26 GMT -5
I guess I can't really comprehend about Love since I have never been in love
I still can't see them together, A policewoman with someone with a criminal past that's not going to happen. Besides Lilly knows that's not the way to find happiness, she still isn't going to be happy. I think it's due to a lot of emotional problems that Lilly needs to sort out, she can't just let that go that's why she can't commit to any type of relationship. Maybe someone did indeed hurt her that is causing maybe not the guy who broke her jaw but someone else. At this point I rather see Lilly find happiness in herself, while being with Joseph
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Post by TVFan on Oct 20, 2006 16:59:05 GMT -5
This was exactly how the episode left me boxman. There's just something about the fact that they have known each for so long, and keep going back to one another. He gets beat up and winds up in the hospital. Who does he call? Lilly. It indicates that there is something so much deeper than their little hook-up last season. These two have a connection that is sealed through their mutual, shared past and strong feelings for each other. I got the feeling that the only reason why they're not together is because Ray doesn't seem to stick around anywhere very long. As you said, perhaps, being faced with the possibility of losing Lilly to someone more stable will blow him in the right direction. If this happens, I can't see Joseph coming out on top. He may be perfect for Lil, but they don't share the same emotional depth or history that she shares with Ray.
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