Episode 3.11: 8 Years

[longislanditalian2]

you are doing a good job trying to speak english, Wow i didn't know that about the french forum

[samanda]

Re-Air Date: 6/25/06 (SUNDAY)
Time Slot: 8:00 PM-9:00 PM EST

[soccerulz]

a2z said:

Re-Air Date: 6/25/06 (SUNDAY)
Time Slot: 8:00 PM-9:00 PM EST

Thanks a2z!

[boxman]

I love this episode. It's the first Cold Case episode I ever saw, and I immediately knew this show was special by how deep this story was. A wonderfully told modern tragedy. I hope that someday I will have the time to write an analysis of the characters in the story, and point out some of the recurring symbolic themes used in it.

[Naj]

Hi boxman,


I rewatched last night's ep for my third viewing. I still feel the same as I posted about it earlier in the thread. Even though I love Bruce, I find the all one musician eps very distracting because the music is so loud and there are just too many songs. The songs did match the story btw but it's not enough because it's just to over powering. I enjoyed the Stillman side story and I loved Lilly's hair! Forgot about Vera eating his rice cakes.

boxman said:

I love this episode. It's the first Cold Case episode I ever saw, and I immediately knew this show was special by how deep this story was. A wonderfully told modern tragedy. I hope that someday I will have the time to write an analysis of the characters in the story, and point out some of the recurring symbolic themes used in it.

[TVFan]

I really like this ep as well, boxman. Like Naj, I tend to not enjoy the single artist eps, but this one really worked well. It's one of my faves from this season.

[LillyKat]

I tuned into the re-run last night. This is the second time I've seen is (first time was on the emmy DVD).

Have to say ... I kinda do not care too much for this ep.

There are a few moments that are really nice - like all of the Stillman/ex-wife scenes. I really loved those as he is my second favorite character. Thus, I enjoyed getting to see a bit more of his personal side. And, I do like Lilly's confession about wanting to run off with motorcycles man at 19. Again, if for nothing other than revealing more of the un-Lilly-like part of her character. Also, we have sort of "soft" Lilly in this ep - kind of mellow and low-key, which I enjoy as it adds a nice change of pace to the eps where she's got both guns blazin'.

But, the whole ep plays out like one prolonged Bruce Springsteen video. I felt it was incredibly slow in parts and overemphasized the music way too much. Also, I could not quite get over the sparse dialogue. There were some really long pauses that were just ... well, awkward. Or, there were just a couple of words going back and forth, which if cleverly done is fine (as I am a believer in the less-is-more approach to dialogue). But, I thought this was a little too little. Instead of dialogue, all you heard was Bruce playing. It's as if they relied on the music to tell the story as opposed to allowing the dialogue to tell the story, then using the music to supplement the story. I read somewhere - my apologies for not remembering where - they actually had to go back and add MORE dialogue to this ep. So, I can't quite imagine what it was like as a draft (it must have been all of 4 pages - LOL!).

I did also read that Springsteen was given some creative control over this script, which to me, is ... questionable. Fine, O.K. ... thanks to Bruce for allowing CC to be the only show ever to be able to use his music, but at the end of the day, I am not sure we needed 50 minutes of a Bruce video disguised as a CC episode.

Apologies if that is harsh (as I do like his music and bravo to CC for even getting him to give the rights), but I really felt this ep was not the best and went a little overboard with the music emphasis.

I know there is a Season 2 ep that was all John Mellencamp music (was that "Kensington" ...?). I won't be able to see that for a while, but I'll be interested when it comes around as I'd like to compare the use of one artist's music as part of the storyline. As of now, I'd have to say I am not a fan of that approach.

[Naj]

Hey LillyKat,

Thanks for saying what I didn't have the words to express. I really hope they do away with this kind of episode. You have the shows best writer and best director and they couldn't pull it off completely. Like you said there are some really good parts to the episode but the car and riding and riding and the car and the girl and the guy riding and looking at one another and talking about being together and showing them wanting to be together was all monotonous by the 33 minute mark and only got worse. It's as though they had to stall the story to fit the loud music. It's all very nice about the lyrics matching the movements on the screen but do I care if a car is riding down the street and stopping when the lyrics say so? I did hear this ep got polarizing reviews from the fans so maybe it won't be the last time we have this kind of episode. I did enjoy the Tunnel of Love tracks that were chosen but what was sorely missing was Bruce's signature song: Born to Run. Ah well.

There are a few moments that are really nice - like all of the Stillman/ex-wife scenes. I really loved those as he is my second favorite character. Thus, I enjoyed getting to see a bit more of his personal side. And, I do like Lilly's confession about wanting to run off with motorcycles man at 19. Again, if for nothing other than revealing more of the un-Lilly-like part of her character. Also, we have sort of "soft" Lilly in this ep - kind of mellow and low-key, which I enjoy as it adds a nice change of pace to the eps where she's got both guns blazin'.

But, the whole ep plays out like one prolonged Bruce Springsteen video. I felt it was incredibly slow in parts and overemphasized the music way too much. Also, I could not quite get over the sparse dialogue. There were some really long pauses that were just ... well, awkward

[koufax]

I agree with Naj and Lillykat. For me, this episode was boring and dragged out. The story and characters were not that interesting. I always like to watch the re-runs, but not this time.
As a Bruce Springsteen fan I found the songs chosen were one of the worst, with as little melody as possible. Besides the lack of plot the songs were also dragging!

[LillyKat]

naj said:

Like you said there are some really good parts to the episode but the car and riding and riding and the car and the girl and the guy riding and looking at one another and talking about being together and showing them wanting to be together was all monotonous by the 33 minute mark and only got worse. It's as though they had to stall the story to fit the loud music.

Naj - your icons in this reply are too funny (and too perfect)!

I felt exactly as you did - almost like they had to wait for the lyrics to catch up to wherever they were in the story. I found myself saying, "Can we speed it up a little?!?! I get the gist." Also, good to know you thought the music seemed to be a little loud. I thought maybe it was just me. Seemed to almost drown out what little dialogue there was in certain parts.

All in all, definitely agree with koufax in that this one will not be on my heavily watched replay list.

[boxman]

From reading your comments, it seems to me that those who were disappointed with this episode were viewing it on strictly a literal level and missed the episode's metaphorical storyline completely. There's more to the episode's story than just the four characters Clem, Sally, Petey, and May in and of themselves. The four characters also represent four different types and groups of people... Did you folks pause to wonder about that as you were watching this episode?

[TVFan]

I'm going to politely disagree with those who didn't like the flashbacks (different strokes for different folks, right? ;D). I actually liked the music video-feel to them. I wouldn't want that to be the case with every episode, but I thought it worked in this one. IMO, there wasn't a lot of dialog because the lyrics to Springsteen's songs told the story. I don't know, maybe I just really related to these characters because they were in the beginning stages of their lives in "The Real World," and trying to figure out what makes them happy, how to make ends meet and so on. I found that part of the story fascinating, and I thought that the flashbacks really added to the story. But again, this is why CC is so great. It has such varying cases and stories, that there truly is something for everyone.

[LillyKat]

tvfan said:

But again, this is why CC is so great. It has such varying cases and stories, that there truly is something for everyone.

So very true, TVFan. Certain eps work for some, whilst other's don't. Can you imagine if we all liked every episode for the exact same reason - we'd have nothing to talk about. LOL!

boxman - You bring up a good point. And, you are always very astute at reading beyond the literal meaning in the various episodes. But, speaking only for myself, I can't say the metaphors in this ep made much of a difference for me. I tend to focus on the basics - plot, dialogue, character development. That may mean I take a more literal approach to each episode, but that's just how I watch the show.

[LillyKat]

Here's an odd coincidence ... ever since I posted in this thread yesterday, every store I've gone into in the last 24-36 hours is playing a Bruce Springsteen song. One store was even playing an entire album. LOL!

Subliminal messaging to get me to change my mind perhaps? Hmmm ...

[boxman]

lillykat said:

Here's an odd coincidence ... ever since I posted in this thread yesterday, every store I've gone into in the last 24-36 hours is playing a Bruce Springsteen song. One store was even playing an entire album. LOL!

Subliminal messaging to get me to change my mind perhaps? Hmmm ...

Well, LillyKat, one of my friends tells me that Springsteen did just ended a twelve-city tour. Perhaps you live near one of these cities? He was here in Philly a week ago, and did two shows in North Jersey over the weekend.

So perhaps it is not really a "subliminal" suggestion. After all, you've consciously recognized this pattern--which, btw, just so happens to be the essence of non-literal communication. Maybe this coincidence is something along the lines of what I think Freud said about "repression" and "repressed desires"?? You adamantly claim to prefer shows that can be viewed and interpreted directly...but perhaps you secretly desire to also enjoy film on other levels....

You know, LillyKat, it's a common human tendency to not like what one doesn't understand. Not many will put fear aside to chase their dreams and desires. He he he....

[Naj]

Hi boxman,

I'm a highly visual person when it comes to watching televsion and I found the visuals as well as the soundtrack as a block to being able to get to the story. Like I said it felt like they were stalling the story to match the songs and it was very noticable enough (to me) to interfere with the episode overall. I've noticed you do approach the episodes on other levels. I have this great audio commentary of Basic Instinct where that approach is used as an interpretation of the femme fatale. And I love it but I don't see those types of themes in Cold Case. However, it might be interesting to hear you overall take on the series as a whole from this perspective.

boxman said:

From reading your comments, it seems to me that those who were disappointed with this episode were viewing it on strictly a literal level and missed the episode's metaphorical storyline completely. There's more to the episode's story than just the four characters Clem, Sally, Petey, and May in and of themselves. The four characters also represent four different types and groups of people... Did you folks pause to wonder about that as you were watching this episode?

[LillyKat]

boxman said:

Well, LillyKat, one of my friends tells me that Springsteen did just ended a twelve-city tour. Perhaps you live near one of these cities? He was here in Philly a week ago, and did two shows in North Jersey over the weekend.

So perhaps it is not really a "subliminal" suggestion. After all, you've consciously recognized this pattern--which, btw, just so happens to be the essence of non-literal communication. Maybe this coincidence is something along the lines of what I think Freud said about "repression" and "repressed desires"?? You adamantly claim to prefer shows that can be viewed and interpreted directly...but perhaps you secretly desire to also enjoy film on other levels....

You know, LillyKat, it's a common human tendency to not like what one doesn't understand. Not many will put fear aside to chase their dreams and desires. He he he....

Wow, boxman, you really do like to read between the lines on everything, eh? Have to give you props for always seeking to point out more than what meets the eye.

I'm with Naj in perhaps you'd like to further elaborate on the metaphoric storyline of this ep and/or for the series on the whole ...

[boxman]

naj said:

Hi boxman, I'm a highly visual person when it comes to watching televsion and I found the visuals as well as the soundtrack as a block to being able to get to the story. Like I said it felt like they were stalling the story to match the songs and it was very noticable enough (to me) to interfere with the episode overall. I've noticed you do approach the episodes on other levels. I have this great audio commentary of Basic Instinct where that approach is used as an interpretation of the femme fatale. And I love it but I don't see those types of themes in Cold Case. However, it might be interesting to hear you overall take on the series as a whole from this perspective.

lillykat said:

...I'm with Naj in perhaps you'd like to further elaborate on the metaphoric storyline of this ep and/or for the series on the whole ...

Hmmm... Thanks for the interest in how I saw this episode. I tried starting to write a response here in several short posts; however, I find it difficult to do so. Unlike "The River", which can be written as a scene-by-scene analysis, this one needs a lot more planning and thought in its execution to be presented correctly. (Plus, I'm not even finished with writing my thoughts on "The River" either!) I think I need a full afternoon to write my views of this episode in one long post. As I'm rather busy at work and with the DVD campaign, I'm sorry to say that I don't think I can write anything here until I get my other stuff out of the way. I should have a bit more time to respond a little later.

[boxman]

lillykat said:

...But, the whole ep plays out like one prolonged Bruce Springsteen video. I felt it was incredibly slow in parts and overemphasized the music way too much. Also, I could not quite get over the sparse dialogue. There were some really long pauses that were just ... well, awkward. Or, there were just a couple of words going back and forth, which if cleverly done is fine (as I am a believer in the less-is-more approach to dialogue). But, I thought this was a little too little. Instead of dialogue, all you heard was Bruce playing. It's as if they relied on the music to tell the story as opposed to allowing the dialogue to tell the story, then using the music to supplement the story. I read somewhere - my apologies for not remembering where - they actually had to go back and add MORE dialogue to this ep. So, I can't quite imagine what it was like as a draft (it must have been all of 4 pages - LOL!)....

naj said:

...Like you said there are some really good parts to the episode but the car and riding and riding and the car and the girl and the guy riding and looking at one another and talking about being together and showing them wanting to be together was all monotonous by the 33 minute mark and only got worse. It's as though they had to stall the story to fit the loud music. It's all very nice about the lyrics matching the movements on the screen but do I care if a car is riding down the street and stopping when the lyrics say so? ... But, the whole ep plays out like one prolonged Bruce Springsteen video. I felt it was incredibly slow in parts and overemphasized the music way too much. Also, I could not quite get over the sparse dialogue. There were some really long pauses that were just ... well, awkward

I just came across this article: here

January 7, 2006
'Cold Case,' Hot Tunes: Springsteen's Soundtrack
By JONAH WEINER

Tomorrow night, the CBS crime drama "Cold Case" will feature the work of an unlikely guest writer. He has won 12 Grammy Awards, has sold tens of millions of albums, and has never worked behind the scenes in television. What's more, he did not type out a single word for the show's script. Instead, he sang it all.

That writer is Bruce Springsteen, from whom "Cold Case" licensed nine songs, building a murder mystery around his lyrics. The episode, titled "8 Years," follows four high school friends from 1980 through 1988, when one of them is found dead.

"Cold Case," a series that constructs every episode around the excavation and resolution of an old unsolved crime, often uses music to suggest time and place - Benny Goodman for the late 40's, for instance, or Cyndi Lauper for the mid-80's.

But instead of turning Mr. Springsteen's songs, all originally released from 1980 to 1987, into mere backdrops, Meredith Stiehm, the show's creator and the writer of this episode, used them to construct and advance the story. Graduation day is narrated by the exultant "No Surrender," while the climactic murder scene is set to the poignant "Atlantic City."

"The idea originally was to use no dialogue at all," Ms. Stiehm said. "His songs are that rich, so full of characters and vignettes." Suffice it to say, cars, highways and the Jersey Shore figure heavily into the plot.

Although Mr. Springsteen won an Academy Award for his contribution to the soundtrack of the 1993 film "Philadelphia," he rarely lends his music to television. "Cold Case" is an exception. The series, now in its third season, had used two Springsteen songs in earlier seasons: "Walk Like a Man" in its first and "Secret Garden" in its second.

Wende Crowley, the show's music supervisor, said the courtship for the episode being shown tomorrow night was surprisingly smooth. "His management was very interested from the start," she said. "Once we had a script, we sent it over, and they said yes."

Ms. Stiehm added, with a laugh, "We have a theory that his wife is a huge fan." It certainly did not hurt that the episode's director, Mark Pellington, also directed the video for Mr. Springsteen's 2002 single "Lonesome Day." Ms. Stiehm said that relationship created "a comfort zone."

A representative of Mr. Springsteen said he was unavailable for comment.

With the notable exception of "Miami Vice," which made iconic use of Phil Collins's "In the Air Tonight" in 1984, television shows until recently relied on anonymous session men for their incidental music. (Gathered under the heading "library music," many of these performances have become cult collector's items.)

Today, though, producers are using pop music instead. Prime time has suddenly become a place to hear familiar songs from favorite groups, and to discover songs by unfamiliar ones.

"It's become part of what audiences want to see and hear when they turn on the TV: real songs by real bands," said Alexandra Patsavas, the music supervisor for the teenage soap "The O.C.," the crime show "Without a Trace" and the hospital drama "Grey's Anatomy." "Licensing songs," she added, "is a an expense producers are considering more and more crucial." The cost of licensing a song can vary widely, from about $500 to $30,000, depending on the artist and the rights requested.

No show has done more to champion the new and unfamiliar than "The O.C." Ms. Patsavas and Josh Schwartz, the show's 29-year-old creator, have introduced a fleet of alternative and indie-rock bands to mainstream audiences. Mr. Schwartz's musical tastes, worthy of a Pitchfork editor, are represented in the show's score and by the character Seth Cohen, the show's resident hipster dweeb. Cohen, played by Adam Brody, has become an unlikely tastemaker, expounding on screen on the virtues of Rooney, Bright Eyes and Death Cab for Cutie, the Seattle foursome signed by Atlantic Records after its "O.C." exposure.

Indie-rock bands, which typically enjoy no significant radio play, have a lot to gain from hit television shows, where the audience for a single episode can dwarf the number of people who bought, for instance, 50 Cent's last album. "If it weren't for TV, indie bands would never reach audiences this big," said Jen Czeisler, vice president of licensing for the independent label Sub Pop. "Our bands don't get on commercial radio and they don't get on MTV, so these shows are a huge opportunity for them."

Ms. Czeisler noted that after a song by the synth-pop duo the Postal Service was used in trailers for "Grey's Anatomy," the duo's debut album experienced a notable rise in sales. "They were supposed to be flattening," she said, "but they just kept going up and up."

Along with "The O.C.," shows like "One Tree Hill," a WB teenage drama, and "Six Feet Under," HBO's cult hit, have given healthy boosts to little rockers that could. Another HBO show, "Entourage," regularly features hip-hop songs and has turned the up-and-coming rapper Saigon into a recurring character. Shows with largely older (and largely less hip) audiences have also incorporated the music of younger acts. In a 2003 episode, "Without a Trace" featured a song by the White Stripes; the British group Clinic and Sub Pop's Iron and Wine have also licensed songs to police shows.

Even bands that enjoy major-label backing and significant sales - among them Coldplay, Oasis and even the Who (who provide the theme songs for all three "CSI" shows) - can benefit from having one of their songs on a hit show. "Big, established bands that are interested in reaching younger and broader audiences often license their songs for less money," Ms. Patsavas said, adding, "Sometimes it's just because the artists love the show." Last year, an episode of "The O.C." was written around six songs from Beck's recent album, "Guero." Beck, Ms. Patsavas said, is an "O.C." fan.

The Houston rapper Lil' Flip was written into the plot of a recent episode of NBC's "Las Vegas," and the Killers and Modest Mouse, major-label rock bands with indie sensibilities, have both performed on "The O.C.," at the fictional nightclub the Bait Shop. As proved by "American Idol," MTV's "Newlyweds: Nick and Jessica" and iPod commercials that have helped propel record sales for U2 and Gorillaz, musicians both new and established stand to sell a lot of their albums given the right television exposure.

"Bands can't just rely on the old ways anymore," said Scott Carter, vice president of marketing at Epic Records and Modest Mouse's product manager. "These days, you have to have a lot more going on besides radio and video if you want to sell a bunch of records."

Ms. Crowley of "Cold Case" said: "There was this stigma attached to television, but now it's livening up. Whenever I approach a band for licensing, I tell them: TV is the new radio."

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

[boxman]

Oh gosh..... I'm reviewing episodes for the "Best of Season 3 Awards" and looked at Petey and May's confession scene. May has a line, "He finds trouble. All 'cause of me", then the camera cuts to Lilly. Lilly has a serious look on her face and then she takes a breath. Is this line a hint about something we will learn about Lilly in a future episode?? They've done things like this quite often before...