boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Sept 6, 2006 0:24:02 GMT -5
WOW! WOW!! WOW!!! Kathryn Morris is truly an outstanding actress! I've been watching this show for only eight months, yet I've been really thinking lately that I can't imagine anyone else bringing so much depth to Lilly's character. Lot's of very interesting recurring themes in this episode: Alcoholism, careless maternal characters, water (shower scene in beginning). Even character roles such as "cocktail waitress" associated with "infidelity" and "crime" recurs later in the series..... This is something to really think about, especially considering the discussion about Lilly possibly having an abortion.... Anyway, I don't have much time to go into analysis here and now, but want to mention that there was an obscure but *really* interesting line in this episode. After all the acclaim that Scotty gives to M.E. Frannie, she calls him "Valence". I never realized it until now, but the etymology of the word "Valence" comes from the Latin word "Valens": www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=valenceEtymology: Late Latin valentia power, capacity, from Latin valent-, valens, present participle of valEre to be strong -- more at WIELD In chemistry, biology, psychiatry, and other sciences, the word "Valence" refers to how much one object (or individual) influences another. Perhaps an allusion to Scotty's inner personality we see in later episodes?? Hmm.... |
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tiger_lilly
Veteran Detective
Loves Lilly [/color]
Posts: 794
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Post by tiger_lilly on Sept 6, 2006 2:26:04 GMT -5
I never realized it until now, but the etymology of the word "Valence" comes from the Latin word "Valens": www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=valenceEtymology: Late Latin valentia power, capacity, from Latin valent-, valens, present participle of valEre to be strong -- more at WIELD In chemistry, biology, psychiatry, and other sciences, the word "Valence" refers to how much one object (or individual) influences another. Perhaps an allusion to Scotty's inner personality we see in later episodes?? Hmm.... That's very interesting boxman, thanks a lot for sharing! |
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coldcasegirl
Lilly Rush
Sleuthing for Clues [/color]
Posts: 2,279
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Post by coldcasegirl on Sept 6, 2006 21:32:19 GMT -5
I had never seen this episode until last night and I have to say it was awesome! **My fave part was when Lilly "blows up" at Sean/Bobby about what she wanted and all that stuff **And it was so funny when Frannie pronounced Scotty's name wrong and when he was trying to be friendly to her...that shows the comedy part of the drama!  ;D **The story was so awesome and really easy to follow, but Sean/Bobby was a real 'case'. Especially the way he acted towards Lilly, but hey she handled it VERY well! But he had had a tough life so it was understandable Overall this episode ROCKED! ;D  |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Sept 6, 2006 21:40:40 GMT -5
Okay here's my two cents,
This time I watched it on my big screen HDTV , and wow Kathryn's performance totally blew me away when Lilly yelled at Sean in Jail. You could actually see tears in Lilly's eyes when she said " I wanted everything too, but was too proud to ask for help for a long time".
I loved the ending song " eternal flame" it moved me to tears the whole scene.
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LillyKat
Lilly Rush
Loyal to Lil'
Posts: 1,132
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Post by LillyKat on Sept 7, 2006 11:36:37 GMT -5
Got to see this ep this week ... I did enjoy it quite a bit. Highlights: - Lilly / Lindsey: Finally, Lilly seems to have ONE friend! LOL!  It was really so nice to see Lilly actually looking like she has a "real" gal friend. The banter between the two was well-done and seemed to suggest a good history between the both of them. Also, it showed me that Lilly, in her own right, could make a pretty good friend - like, she'd be there for you if you needed something. She did NOT appear as her usual island unto herself with Lindsey. What happened? Why is it we have never heard from Lindsey (or any other potential "girl's night" gal friends) since? - Lilly / Sean: The scene between the two of them in the jail cell was one of the most powerful of Season 1 (if not the most powerful). Kathryn was flawless, brilliant, compelling ... you could not take your eyes off of her in this scene. And the revelation - or confession - of Lilly wanting to have it all, but being too stubborn to ask for help ... I loved that admission - owning up to one of her flaws. - Stillman's heart-to-heart with Scotty: I enjoyed this quite a bit, too (even though TNT skipped airing "Greed," so I did not get to see Scotty bring Alyssa to First Thursday, her intro to the group, etc.). I really like how Stillman continually looks out for the best interests of his squad - truly a father-like figure / wise old soul. In fact, I would love to see Stillman have this kind of conversation with Lilly in Season 4. Questionable: - Sean / Actor who played him: As much as I enjoyed all the Lilly v. Sean moments, he got on my nerves very quickly. I am not sure what it was exactly, but it was almost like he was trying way too hard to be so tough. I don't know if it was the actor, the direction ... it just came across as so over the top that it started to seem fake and/or not so believable in parts (for me). Now, I know he was supposed to be "fronting" ... but it was almost as if it was 40 times MORE fake than I think it should have been. I kept wanting to say, 'Okay, Sean. We get it. You're a harda** with a huge chip on your shoulder.' I had just watched an episode of The Closer, whereby there was a gang-related shooting incident as part of the case. The detectives had to interview some fairly hardcore gang members, and even they did not come across as being so over-the-top and/or edgy. So, the portrayal of Sean seemed a bit "too much"... and it made it hard for me to care as much for him as Lilly did. All in all, very good ep.  |
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tiger_lilly
Veteran Detective
Loves Lilly [/color]
Posts: 794
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Post by tiger_lilly on Sept 7, 2006 13:13:25 GMT -5
Questionable: - Sean / Actor who played him: As much as I enjoyed all the Lilly v. Sean moments, he got on my nerves very quickly. I am not sure what it was exactly, but it was almost like he was trying way too hard to be so tough. I don't know if it was the actor, the direction ... it just came across as so over the top that it started to seem fake and/or not so believable in parts (for me). Now, I know he was supposed to be "fronting" ... but it was almost as if it was 40 times MORE fake than I think it should have been. I kept wanting to say, 'Okay, Sean. We get it. You're a harda** with a huge chip on your shoulder.' I had just watched an episode of The Closer, whereby there was a gang-related shooting incident as part of the case. The detectives had to interview some fairly hardcore gang members, and even they did not come across as being so over-the-top and/or edgy. So, the portrayal of Sean seemed a bit "too much"... and it made it hard for me to care as much for him as Lilly did. All in all, very good ep. Ok, I haven't just seen this ep so bare with the inaccuracies there might be. I know what you mean LillyKat, he did get on my nerves too, but for me it worked quite well because it showed such a big contrast to the child we see in the past. He was so cute and innocent and because of the way he turned out it made me feel so bad for him, and made me want to see him happy again. The scene where the child is sitting next to his dead mother gave me the chills and that scene where they do the flashback of him sitting down (is it at the court house?) really moved me because it showed us that he really is just a kid, and what happened to him was not his fault. I think the way this ep was filmed worked very well. The actor may have been a little less gifted than what we are used to seeing, but like I wrote, it worked for me. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Sept 7, 2006 13:28:46 GMT -5
It was sad at the end as we get a shot of Rebecca/ Linda looking very sad as she watches Sean/Bobby get reunited with his parents. She was probably thinking that this was her fault that all she ever wanted to do was have a baby, never wanting to end like this.
The jail Scene- Lilly might have wanted her parents to love her, maybe she craved so much love but never got it. That could be one factor, but maybe someone was abusing her( Maybe one of Ellen's boyfriends) that she never asked for help thinking that no one would care enough to help her.
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LillyKat
Lilly Rush
Loyal to Lil'
Posts: 1,132
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Post by LillyKat on Sept 7, 2006 14:33:26 GMT -5
Ok, I haven't just seen this ep so bare with the inaccuracies there might be. I know what you mean LillyKat, he did get on my nerves too, but for me it worked quite well because it showed such a big contrast to the child we see in the past. He was so cute and innocent and because of the way he turned out it made me feel so bad for him, and made me want to see him happy again. The scene where the child is sitting next to his dead mother gave me the chills and that scene where they do the flashback of him sitting down (is it at the court house?) really moved me because it showed us that he really is just a kid, and what happened to him was not his fault. I think the way this ep was filmed worked very well. The actor may have been a little less gifted than what we are used to seeing, but like I wrote, it worked for me. Excellent points, tiger_lilly ... I think I just took issue with how the actor chose to portray older Sean. For me, he could have dialed it down a couple of notches and I think it may not have bothered me as much ... or, perhaps I am just overly picky this week. LOL! The flashbacks between old Sean and young Sean were very compelling - especially with him sitting there next to his mom after she'd been killed. That was definitely a "Whoa" moment with which to start and end the episode. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Sept 7, 2006 14:47:19 GMT -5
But wait, Linda's mother was a lot like Lilly's mother Ellen; personality wise.
Maybe that's why Linda was like that she craved her mothers loved but since she never got it, she looked for it in other ways in the long run it also got her killed.
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Sept 10, 2006 23:54:48 GMT -5
But wait, Linda's mother was a lot like Lilly's mother Ellen; personality wise.... Yes, very interesting, isn't it? Alcoholic, neglectful mother. Funny thing is that this parental neglect spurred a very strong maternal instinct in Rebecca/Linda. So if we make the parallel between Linda's mom and Ellen, do we also infer that Lilly may have had a strong desire to be a mother like Linda did?? Hmmm... very interesting, because at this point in the show's timeline, we really don't know too much about Ellen, yet here's a character just like her.. And then, there's the "Valence" comment. That word seems to foreshadow Scotty Valen's need to influence others. In "Late Returns", we see Scotty flash his gun to influence David Lake into admitting his guilt... Then, there's the comment by Linda's gardener boyfriend about "shooting blanks"... Possibly some kind of vague reference to Season Three, and Nick and Julie's marital problems?? Hmm... One thing odd in this episode: Dr. Silver tells Lilly and Scotty about a really sexually-charged moment between him and Rebecca/Linda. In a flashback, the two of them are necking in the fire escape. Then, as we return to the "real world", Lilly is flicking her pen by her lips.... Very odd... Any guy should catch Lilly's strange reaction to his story immediately. I wonder why she did this?? |
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Post by eurache on Jan 25, 2008 15:21:58 GMT -5
RE-AIRING ON TNT AT 11PM ET AT 1/30/2008
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Post by eurache on Jun 22, 2008 7:24:12 GMT -5
TNT REPEAT - JUNE 24, 2008 (4AM ET)
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toddsmitts
Veteran Detective
WIKI WIKI BOY [/color]
Posts: 611
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Post by toddsmitts on Jul 9, 2008 23:46:55 GMT -5
At the risk of making myself look like a HUGE geek, I noticed a strange little tidbit at the end of this episode: During the end montage, Rebecca's mother is reading a newspaper article on Rebecca's murder being solved. The headline and the first paragraph mention the case but the following paragraph have nothing to do with it. Instead they mention a convicted murderer named Rory Carmichael being executed in the electric chair and his execution being broadcast on a news network. This sounded familiar to me, so I looked up IMDB and my suspicions were confirmed: This was the plot of the first episode of "The Beast", a short-lived series that was on ABC back in 2001. It starred Frank Langella and a pre-"Lost" Elizabeth Mitchell. It's a pretty obscure reference. My guess is a CC writer or production designer or whoever makes things like that previously worked on that show (or maybe just a fan).  |
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Post by eduardodelroice on Jan 7, 2009 15:10:04 GMT -5
I have just watched this episode...again in a rerun IT IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL IN THE WHOLE SHOW *The Lilly/Sean scene was extremely well done *I liked how they showed that in the end Rebecca/Linda just wanted a baby, she did wrong by kidnapping Bobby though but I loved how this episode showed human beings are not good or bad, that we cab be both *excellent final montage and song. Seeing Linda crying is an evidence she was sorry for what she did HOWEVER. Did you think Sean went to jail for 2 years? in the end It was never explained It bothered me too that they never said how they found out Rebecca was really Linda  |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jan 7, 2009 15:30:41 GMT -5
They did find out that Rebecca was Linda, but I think Sean probably went to jail for two years..
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Post by eduardodelroice on Jan 7, 2009 16:03:12 GMT -5
They did find out that Rebecca was Linda, but I think Sean probably went to jail for two years.. Yep, now that I think... Sean was seen in jail uniform... sad after he found his real family... I liked the twist in this episode "oh, she's not Rebecca, oh! she is not a mom!" However, they found out Rebecca was Linda but they never said how I'm loving this cold case marathon |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jan 7, 2009 16:32:44 GMT -5
They probably got a DNA sample from her mother, it's called Mitochondrial DNA which is only passed on from the mother to her children and compared it. Cold Case isn't known for it's science but I think that's how they had found out, and also Rebecca/ Linda never had given birth which Frannie had found out . All the witnesses that had known her said the same, plus the doctor knew that she had kidnapped Sean from his parents. The investigator was then sent out which had proved that Rebecca was Linda all along.
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Post by eduardodelroice on Jan 7, 2009 19:21:14 GMT -5
I watched it very carefully... They discovered the original Rebecca Morgan died in 1982, later Lilly went to talk to Sean and then "someone" called him and said that they discovered who was really Rebecca
The next scene they were speaking with Linda's mother...
So the How was never explained but overall ... EXCELLENT EPISODE!!!
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jan 8, 2009 21:36:40 GMT -5
stop looking into things like that, somethings on this show will never be explained. It's just that simple; I did rewatch it and this episode shows how well KM can act.
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Post by eduardodelroice on Jan 8, 2009 21:39:33 GMT -5
stop looking into things like that, somethings on this show will never be explained. It's just that simple; I did rewatch it and this episode shows how well KM can act. That "Sean in jail" scene was really awesome/When she said that what was he gonna do to feed their 13 children... and now we understand that in this case she was not lying or anything. I know Kathryn is an excellent actress |
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It was really so nice to see Lilly actually looking like she has a "real" gal friend. The banter between the two was well-done and seemed to suggest a good history between the both of them. Also, it showed me that Lilly, in her own right, could make a pretty good friend - like, she'd be there for you if you needed something. She did NOT appear as her usual island unto herself with Lindsey. What happened? Why is it we have never heard from Lindsey (or any other potential "girl's night" gal friends) since?
