Episode 19: Late Returns

[redbird]

I can't wait. Got preempted by the NFL last week so I'm more than ready for Lily to return.

[Naj]

reairs February 7 TNT

[boxman]

This was an interesting episode that left me wondering what was driving Scotty to press David Lake, especially when his sister already admitted to both murders. My first impression was that he could almost feel the truth come out earlier when Lilly was interrupted by the Commissioner calling, and getting that close bothered him. Then I wondered if Scotty was irritated by the politics that was strong enough to stop an investigation. Perhaps he felt that if he had some truth about the actual facts behind Vanessa's murder, that he could use it as leverage against political interference with future investigations? Or maybe he was driven by something regarding the incestuous relationship between the Lakes? Not only did David and Abbey break a social sexual taboo, their mother did too as a prostitute. What about their father that was divorced from them? Isn't it reasonable to think that he may have an important part in bringing this kind of tragedy into the household? Could it be that Abbey was abused by her father at a young age, and that led to her parent's divorce and to her own abuse of David as a teenager?? I wonder if questions such as these motivated Scotty to press for the facts. Or was he just simply sympathetic to Abbey for accepting the punishment for two murders, when she only committed one?? So now that Scotty knows that Abbey is innocent of one murder (though she was still an accessory to the first), would he get the DA to ask for less punishment?

While the Lake family has broken society's sexual taboos, it was strange how Vanessa Prosser's family broke taboos too. Vanessa was born because of her mother's infidelity. Vanessa, engaged to Aaron, could not keep her fidelity when he was away either. This episode noted how physical diseases such as hemophilia are genetic and passed from one generation to another. I wonder if the writers were also implying that psychological deviances such as infidelity and sexual abuse can be hereditary, or at least passed on from one generation to another as well.

I was at first irritated and disappointed that the Duran Duran song "Ordinary World" didn't quite match up to the story. When I thought about it longer, though, it made me question if the side story of Aaron and Vanessa's broken engagement simply ended up on the cutting room floor. If anyone, the song "Ordinary World" would match Aaron's character the most--almost perfectly, even. (Ironically, the song is on a CD titled, "The Wedding Album".) I felt really bad for Aaron when I began to realize that **he** is the one person who really gets to have closure if he knew the truth--not Scotty! Vanessa's mom and dad seemed to have moved onwards from the unsolved death, but I could easily see that Aaron's spirit was completely destroyed after fighting in the war and coming home to nothing--and then, getting wrongly accused for Vanessa's murder. A real shame. ROTC meant that he was an officer, not an enlistment. Penn graduate too--that's Ivy League. Really prestigious and difficult to get into. A sad fact (but nice touch by the director or set manager) was that you could see that he even had a trophy of some sort above his couch, something I would guess he won years and years ago and not recently. So this raises another question about Scotty: Since he met Aaron and knows he's living a dismal life as an alcoholic (and possible drug addict), will he tell Aaron the truth about Vanessa's murder someday and give him closure?

Finally, another interesting (but disheartening) generational parallel is how both Vanessa and her mom were both in love (at one time) to men who were outstanding citizens. Outstanding, that is, until the most important woman in their lives passed on. Then they each completely fell apart.

[TVFan]

Excellent analysis boxman! And welcome BTW. :smile61: You have raised some very interesting questions here, and it's fun to go back and think about them now that we a season and a half of more perspective. I think that it just really bothered Scotty that the Congressman was going to get away with what he did because his sister was willing to take the fall in order to protect his career. If you have seen last season's "Mind Hunter," then you know at the end that George walked away without paying for his crimes (obviously, it caught up to him), and Scotty seemed pretty torn up about that as well. I think that Scotty was just extremely frustrated and still a little sore over Lil getting that phone call just as the Congressman was most likely about to confess (on the record), and that's why he pursued it so heavily.

[boxman]

Hi TVFan. Thanks for the welcome! So you say it happens **again** with Scotty?? That's really strange. (I'm a newbie and only started watching a month ago.) This sets up an interesting conundrum for him. Cold cases happen because someone isn't willing to go public with the truth. Effectively, Scotty has to start thinking more and more like the criminals he's investigating--he's experiencing the same pressure to keep silent about the truth. As a man of uniform, I wonder if he sleeps well at night knowing that Aaron, an American veteran, doesn't know the truth. I wonder what this does to Scotty's inner character, or if he even thinks about his situation in this perspective at all....

BTW, what's a good website to use for hosting avatar images???

[myril]

That's an interesting point you make, boxman, though I think it's not just Scotty experiencing this frustration. But because they deal with Cold Cases here, I think it happens not that often in the show. Other police officers already had the frustration that they couldn't solve the case, out of lack of evidcence or because people didn't talk. Now the team is mostly able to solve them, find the real killer and justice. Though in some cases I wonder what happens in court - but that's not part of this show.
Guess at times Scotty (andthe others) have bad nights if they couldn't really close the case in all aspects.

[boxman]

Sorry if it sounds like I'm hounding Scotty. It's just that in all of the episodes I've seen so far, he seems the most well-balanced character and that seems kinda odd. I feel the general tendency these days in television and movies is to have protagonists with some type of flawed aspect. For example, Vera's hard-charging style works well for him in detective work, but it can also get him into trouble (like how he embarassed himself the other week with Kat). Stillman's cool, analytical style makes him a good mentor for Lilly, but he can also be socially awkward (as when he made a bad joke the time Lilly's cat got attacked by a dog.) Kat's back story seems to be unfolding right now, as well as Lilly's with her mystery motorcycle man. In contrast, Scotty plays a straight-man to Vera's quirks, he seems to work well with Lilly, and whenever Lilly is critical towards him, he defends himself reasonably in the situation. Maybe I haven't watched enough episodes yet to see other sides of him??? (Don't spoil it for me if this is the case!!) But as it is for me right now, it seems odd that his character is just as strong--or even stronger than--Lilly, who is the main character of the show..... (Or maybe, I just simply have a lot of catching up to do Tuesday nights on TNT!)

[myril]

boxman said:

(...)But as it is for me right now, it seems odd that his character is just as strong--or even stronger than--Lilly, who is the main character of the show..... (Or maybe, I just simply have a lot of catching up to do Tuesday nights on TNT!)

Boxman - it's so interesting to hear your view, as someone who just started to watch Cold Case. Scotty as the strongest and well-balanced character of the show... hm, guess you can see him like that in some episodes. But Scotty has his own story and isn't so balanced - but you will see.

And actually you hit the mark. There was some ranting about Scotty though not because he seemed to be well-balanced but because he seemed to be stronger than the lead character Lilly and got more attention and screentime. It's odd, yes! I always wondered if anyone new to the show would ask, who the lead of the show really is. You kinda answered to that.

[boxman]

myril said:

But Scotty has his own story and isn't so balanced - but you will see.

Wow! Thank's for not spoiling it for me! I can't wait to see what his back story is all about!

[LillyKat]

Tuned into this re-run on TNT last night ... I really liked the ep. It was ... well, kind of creepy with the whole "more than brother and sister" angle, but I think that is also what made it quite the mystery. Have to admit I was getting confused a bit with all the names flying around as to who was friends (or more than friends) with whom. LOL! (I think I was tired, though. )

Lilly was very cool in this episode ... I've tried to come up with another word, but that's the only one that seems to fit. LOL! She just had it all working in this ep - even with her sort of desperate agreement with Kite.

As for Kite ... this ep continues to support what I've been thinking all along: he was only ever interested in "scoring" with Lilly; he had no interest in any sort of meaningful relationship with her. When she wasn't taking the bait, he moved on to find his next number (her response to the guys out at the hot dog stand when she saw them together was a classic). I personally feel as if he proudly paraded the new gal around just to get a response from Lilly, which allowed him to deliver his ultimatum so that he could STILL get her. I did not like that he painted her into a corner, forcing her to basically come to the relationship on his terms. And yet, I also still think she thought he was genuinely interested in something other than a notch on his bedpost (even though the signs were there that he wasn't). Chalk that up to Lilly's own issues ... but Kite was definitely in it for him, not for her.

Good ep.

[TVFan]

Looking back and knowing now how things end, this is exactly how I see the scene as well LillyKat. In fact, I think it's the best evidence that supports Kite's true intentions with Lilly. At the time, though, it didn't come across that way. It seemed like Lilly was dragging her feet and Kite wanted a commitment. It's amazing what 20/20 hindsight will reveal.

[mikencelia]

I thought this was one of the worst episodes of Cold Case. I found the story weak and uninteresting. Number one, the chances of a girl being a hemophiliac are astronomical. She would have had to have inherited the defective chromosone from BOTH parents, which is unbelievabley rare. The mother picked a guy with the defective chromosone for a one night stand AND she has the chromosone, too? Please. They could have come up with a number of other genetic problems much more plausible.

Then the older sister abusing the younger brother. This is also a very rare scenario as all sexual abuse stats will indicate. Then throw in the girlfriend who was gay and had a crush on her (but she later had a son, how that came about is never explained) ...and then why would this girl go all the way to Redding just to find out about the checks. She wasn't that involved with the guy yet that she should have been going to such lengths to find out about his background.

The only good part was with Kite. Maybe because I am married woman with kids, it has been so obvious from day 1 that he has only been interested in what he could get out of this relationship. Lily must be completely gone over him not to see. A woman like her - her intellect, intuitiveness, ability, could only be blinded by love.

[LillyKat]

@TVFan - So true hindsight is always 20/20.

Interesting thoughts, mikencelia. I can see where you are coming from. But, as someone who has a step-sister who is a hemophiliac, and someone who has a co-worker with a family history of brother/sister incest, this episode did not rank that far out on reality and/or statistical accuracy to me. And, I guess I do not watch this show with the idea that everything they come up with has to be within some sort of statistical percentage of actually occurring in the general population. If that were the basis for any show, I'm not sure there would be anything to watch. LOL!

I guess I accept the fact that: a) it's a tv show; b) there is creative license; c) rarity does not mean impossible.

JMHO.

[mikencelia]

lillykat said:

@TVFan - So true hindsight is always 20/20.

Interesting thoughts, mikencelia. I can see where you are coming from. But, as someone who has a step-sister who is a hemophiliac, and someone who has a co-worker with a family history of brother/sister incest, this episode did not rank that far out on reality and/or statistical accuracy to me. And, I guess I do not watch this show with the idea that everything they come up with has to be within some sort of statistical percentage of actually occurring in the general population. If that were the basis for any show, I'm not sure there would be anything to watch. LOL!

I guess I accept the fact that: a) it's a tv show; b) there is creative license; c) rarity does not mean impossible.

JMHO.

Brother sister incest is very common, especially among some cultures BUT sister initiating or sister dominating is very rare. As for a female hemophiliac, that makes for interesting genetics. If I were that person I would really research this with a geneticist affiliated with a good research/teaching hospital in a major city to see exactly what the chromosonal mutations are/were among ancestors from both sides. It would make for enlightening science for everyone involved, new revelations, etc. Female hempophilia follows a very distinct chromosonal path.

As for reality in television...I think that Cold Case is a cut above the normal programming out there and as such, I hold them to a higher standard. Anyone can write a typical police drama. I would hate to see them start going down the path of the usual mediocrity associated with television.

[boxman]

lillykat said:

...As for Kite ... this ep continues to support what I've been thinking all along: he was only ever interested in "scoring" with Lilly; he had no interest in any sort of meaningful relationship with her. When she wasn't taking the bait, he moved on to find his next number (her response to the guys out at the hot dog stand when she saw them together was a classic). I personally feel as if he proudly paraded the new gal around just to get a response from Lilly, which allowed him to deliver his ultimatum so that he could STILL get her. I did not like that he painted her into a corner, forcing her to basically come to the relationship on his terms. And yet, I also still think she thought he was genuinely interested in something other than a notch on his bedpost (even though the signs were there that he wasn't). Chalk that up to Lilly's own issues ... but Kite was definitely in it for him, not for her.

tvfan said:

Looking back and knowing now how things end, this is exactly how I see the scene as well LillyKat. In fact, I think it's the best evidence that supports Kite's true intentions with Lilly. At the time, though, it didn't come across that way. It seemed like Lilly was dragging her feet and Kite wanted a commitment. It's amazing what 20/20 hindsight will reveal.

EWWWWW!!! The two of you are freakin me out! Don't tell me that the two of you are both the kind of women who can't stop talking dirt about guys you break up with....

Here's a different way to look at it: When Lilly, Stillman and Scotty were getting a hot dog, does it really appear that Kite was even aware the three were out there? It seems to me that Lilly was just lucky to be standing there to bust Kite. And was it really a bust anyway?? You're talking Philly, the second largest East Coast city. Very liberal city in a very blue state. Going out to dinner and later to a disco doesn't necessarily equate to "commitment". You just hung out together. That's all, and many people here won't let themselves make anything more of it until there is some talk about commitment. (As is what later happens.)

And what's the big deal about Kite wanting to score with Lilly? People who commit to each other eventually do. And again, big East Coast city... more likely sooner than later. And often the other way around: Scoring, then commitment. Frankly, I'd be more concerned with Kite if he didn't want to score with Lilly and wasn't up-front with himself about it...

[TVFan]

It's not the fact that he wanted to score with her, it's the fact that it seems to be the only thing he wanted from her. I don't think he was ever in it for a relationship. That becomes more clear when he eventually dumps her over one mistake. I just think his intentions were not the same as Lilly's and he knew this because she was very reluctant from the beginning. She didn't want to get involved with him, and he sort of talked her into it to get into her pants. That's my beef with Kite. As far as bad-mouthing exs, I'm actually still good friends with mine.

[longislanditalian2]

I really think Kite was clearly intrested in Julie the other DA then Lilly. He might have been seeing her behind Lilly's back and knew he wasn't going to get what he wanted in their relationship.

[boxman]

tvfan said:

It's not the fact that he wanted to score with her, it's the fact that it seems to be the only thing he wanted from her. I don't think he was ever in it for a relationship. That becomes more clear when he eventually dumps her over one mistake. I just think his intentions were not the same as Lilly's and he knew this because she was very reluctant from the beginning. She didn't want to get involved with him, and he sort of talked her into it to get into her pants. That's my beef with Kite. As far as bad-mouthing exs, I'm actually still good friends with mine.

Wow, we really don't view Lilly and Kite's relationship in the same way. Now that I've seen more of them together, I can hardly agree to call what Lilly does in "Lover's Lane" a "mistake". That's just Lilly being the workaholic that she is. (Her latest lover even called her that within one minute of meeting her.) It's funny for me to be defending Kite, because I didn't get a good first impression of him to start with. However, now that I've seen Season One, I think he's got his stuff together. A little cocky, but he kinda should be anyway as a big-city ADA.

One thing about "Late Returns" that's pertinent to our discussion, is how it profiled womanizers. The episode opened with scenes from Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign, made a couple of jokes about his womanizing, and it went into David Lake's career and his involvement with volunteers. Both guys were interested in women just for scoring, correct?? Bill had Monica (and a whole bunch of other women), and David had Vanessa. Both used their high-powered position as lures to get women. Even in "Hubris", Professor Roy Minard does the same with his college students.

So if Kite was just interested in scoring, why would he waste his time with Lilly?? Why go after a hard-charging, independant, sucessful, career-oriented, Type-A personality like Lilly Rush?? It doesn't make sense. A guy who just wants to score doesn't waste his time courting a busy and independent woman.... They're not needy and they don't have the time. So as a high-powered, high-status, and highly-visible Philly ADA, wouldn't it be much easier for Kite to seduce and score with the Monicas in this world?? The young harlots that are looking for a daddy and have a lot of time available for fooling around??

Kite is definitely very aware of Lilly's workaholic tendencies. And every scene I see them together, it seems to me that he's saying: "Look, you're a successful detective. I have a successful career too. You're driven to push yourself to higher heights, and so am I. Why don't we get to know each other outside of work? We share a lot in common." Whereas Lilly's response always seems to be: "Hey, I'm Lilly Rush: Philly's first Female Homicide Detective. Can we get back to work?"

I think it's too bad they didn't re-air "Greed", since there's a lot in that episode that show's Kite's respect and high regard for Lilly. The case opens with Kite introducing Lilly to his brother's *really* arrogant friend, Randy Price. Kite talked-up about Lilly to Randy. Now if Kite was just interested in scoring with Lilly, why would he have done this?? Why not try to match Randy's bravado by bragging about trying to shag a detective, and turn to someone else to help with Randy's case?? Later, Kite bugs Lilly about meeting Tripod and Cyclops. Was this just a ploy to get into Lilly's rowhome?? I don't think so. When they're at her front door (after spending the evening together seeing a movie), he's really interested in seeing her the next night. Maybe see another movie, he suggests. But Lilly being workaholic, she has First Thursdays and considers it "a work thing" that Kite's not welcomed to, rather than an opportunity to see him again. Again, in this situation, if Kite only wanted to score, why would he bother about *tommorrow night* when he's right at her front door?? Why not bug the heck out of Lilly about seeing Tripod and Cyclops as a ploy to get into her house?? He was right there at her door, but didn't spend any time or effort to get into Lilly's rowhome. Now is this really the kind of behavior of a guy that just wants to score?? To me, this is moreso a guy who's trying to build a relationship: Spend time together, meet the pets she loves so much, meet her co-workers, enjoy dancing together (and try to get a smile out of her by singing an old disco tune), go see a movie together, and most importantly, talk about something other than work for a change. And keep in mind, it was Lilly who invited Kite into her house...

So in "Lover's Lane", it seems to me that Lilly really drove it home to Kite: Work is more important than relationships to her. Kinda like Dr. Bowen in "The River", Lilly was torn between two lovers: Kite and Work. Kite knew he lost when she puts work ahead of him, so he did what any sane person would do: He split knowing that relationships aren't very important to Lilly. There was nothing necessarily wrong or a "mistake" about it on Lilly's part (or Kite's). This was the same message Lilly kept sending out to Kite since they first had dinner together, and no amount of dating or humoring Lilly ever changed that. So again, right or wrong on Lilly or Kite's part?? In my view, neither. They both just want different things in a relationship and were thus better parted.

[tiger_lilly]

Wow boxman, I think I really agree with almost everything you said here. I still think that Kite was a bit pushy sometimes when approaching Lilly about going out. But she is also a very hard person to "crack" (is that the right way to say it?). I totally agree that Kite did not see it as a mistake on Lilly's part when she spent that night talking with the man on her doorstep. If I remember correctly Kite never really blames her, he just realizes that they want differnet things, like you say boxman, and Lilly knows it too.

[michelle]

He split knowing that relationships aren't very important to Lilly.

I have to disagree with that statement. I think relationships are immensely important to Lilly, especially given her personal history in her early relationship with her mother, and seeing her mother's behavior in relationships. I think it would be more accurate to say that Lilly needs to really know someone before deeming them worthy of a place in her life. After all, she and Kite had really only started. Not that I think her behavior was right (I posted a rant about that in the Lover's Lane thread), but the way I understand Lilly, if she chooses someone with whom to be in a relationship, she will give everything in her heart and soul to it.