Ep. 4.16 The Good-Bye Room

[longislanditalian2]

boxman- it's not like I am open to the idea, I'm kind of torn btwn if Lilly did in fact have an abortion or not. Somehow if that did happen what were the signs can you explain it to me

[firstmother]

I always had the sense that Lilly herself had given up a child. I'm not sure where I got that but I thought I saw a show a couple of years ago that had her finding her minor child and not making contact because the child was too young. Am I confusing that plot with another character?

[longislanditalian2]

I don't think Lilly would be that type to just give up her baby, it's really hard to tell sometimes what had happened, even about her own childhood.

Here is the picture of Lilly and her Mother

[firstmother]

I don't think Lilly would be that type to just give up her baby..

Now see? This is the kind of stereotyping that the public still has about this issue. I was NOT the type to "just give up a baby". The plotline last night accurately pointed out that most girls did not have a choice. Sorry. I just get my feathers up when I hear people imply that this kind of stuff happens to a particular type. The reality is that this happened to women like your mother, grandmother, sister, cousin, teacher, doctor, lawyer, librarians...there was no particular type.

Whether Lilly lost a child to adoption or not, I think the public needs to be sensitive to the kinds of hurtful assumptions that so many people have about this situation. Adopted people especially need to understand that more than likely there mother was not given the least bit of support.

[longislanditalian2]

I didn't mean it like that, but maybe it's just a simple yearning to be a mother that Lilly wants. Maybe it this episode had nothing to do with that possiblity but how her own mother was with her, how this case made her made her realize that her mother still loved her no matter what throughout everything bad.

[boxman]

I'm at work now, so I'm sneaking this post in...

Anyone notice the central character was named "Hilary" (versus "HiLLary")??
HMMMMmmm.....

[longislanditalian2]

Another thing, does anyone think that the picture of Karen's son is really a picture of Danny when he was little, kinda looks like him??

Not trying to start anything about this, just got a little curious that's all...


All around this was a Lillycentric episode, very well done by the wonderful and talented Kathryn , you could just see the tears forming in her eyes, when Karen says about how deep a mother's love for her child speech.

[chris]

boxman...

""Could Sister Margaret too have been pregnant, gone to town (in regular dress, of course), and forgotten to remove the ring when she got back?? ""

I don't know a lot about the Catholic religion or their rituals. But seems I have heard or seen portrayed in movies or via my catholic friends...that when a nun takes her vows, she becomes the 'bride' of 'god', thus married to him/her. I believe they also wear a wedding band as a symbol of that marriage to their god. I may be mistaken but for some reason I seem to remember seeing that or hearing such.

[Naj]

I agree with you about Lilly having a child and giving it up. I've always pondered that. Nothing has happened on CC to indicate a child to date.

firstmother said:

I always had the sense that Lilly herself had given up a child. I'm not sure where I got that but I thought I saw a show a couple of years ago that had her finding her minor child and not making contact because the child was too young. Am I confusing that plot with another character?

[longislanditalian2]

If Lilly did have a child why does everyone think that Ray might be the father, maybe it was patrick her ex-finacee??

[boxman]

FirstMother, Chris, and MamaRobina,

Thank you very much for coming here and sharing something so personal with us. I understand that this is a very emotional issue, and so I admire and appreciate how you folks have come forward with your experiences to give us younger generations more light on the matter.

The "Baby Scoop Era" is something that is completely new to me. It's not like I haven't thought about adoption before; Like LII2, I just didn't realize that there were so many young women who didn't willingly give their babies up for adoption, and that it was such a dark time for unwed mothers. As a result, "The Good-Bye Room" has left me with more questions than answers. If you folks feel comfortable, may I ask a few questions?? Well, actually, I have a LOT of questions... (That's why I'm taking the risk of posting here during work hours...) Feel free to leave my questions unanswered, I'm aware a lot of them are very personal.

I was wondering:

--Was an accurate portrayal that like Barbara, many of these children are now adults and don't even know they've been adopted??

--Have any of you been successful in finding your children?? If so, how far have you've gone to make contact with them??

--What about friendships you've made with other young women at these maternity homes. Have you folks kept in touch with other women you've met after giving birth and over the years??

--How do you folks feel about Roe v. Wade, and the option it provides to young women today??

--Are there organizations and websites that reveal more on the matter? (After just a quick search, it seems to me at the moment that there isn't a whole lot of info on this available.)

--In retrospect, do any of you feel that putting up your child for adoption has given you a better life by freeing you from the responsibility (and at that time, the stigma) of being a young, unwed mother??

Thank you very much in advance....

[firstmother]

boxman, I am glad to respond to several of your questions. First and foremost - yes I searched for and found my son in 1990 when he was 21. He wanted to be found and always wondered why he was given up. I had learned that many adopted people have what is referred to as *abandonment* issues and I wanted to make sure he knew that I had fought as hard as I could to keep him, should he wonder. I was 18 and a student and was absolutly given no other options as much as I tried to beg my parents to allow me to keep him. My experience was the norm - there is a wonderful new book entitled "The Girls Who Went Away" by Ann Fessler. Amazon chose it as one of the most important and best new books of 2006. There is actually lots and lots on the web about this - if you google the book you will be taken to other links. There are several organizations and websites available for those of us who have suffered silently for years. One good one is www.adoptioncrossroads.com If you'd really like to learn about it check out that book and that website.

There are also many adult adopted people who don't find out they're adopted until they are older or their adoptive parents die. Often the adoptive parents felt such shame about their infertility that they couldn't bring themselves to tell their child. Personally, I think to deny such important information to a human being is immoral.

I did not "give up my baby" I feel my child was taken from me. And no, it was never a freeing experience because I was plunged into years of depression as a result. I later learned that although my son was adopted by wealthy people, they were not able to understand him. He loves them but tells me he always felt different as if he didn't quite fit in.

As far as Roe v Wade - I can't speak for all moms who lost babies to adoption because we all have different beliefs regarding this. But personally, I've known lots of women that have had abortion and as painful emotionally as that is - at least they can grieve that loss. Most of us could not grieve it because we were told to forget about it and get on with our lives. It's kind of hard to get on with one's life when one doesn't know if their baby is alive and well or if he needs something that only a mother can provide.

These are good questions that you raise and I thank you for honoring our experience.

[LillyKat]

Firstly, I want to welcome FirstMother, Chris, and MamaRobina to the boards. It is truly a gift to have their insights into this episode. It reiterates once again how hard CC does work to get their stories "right," especially on very sensitive issues such as this. Thus, I think it is the ultimate compliment for the show.

Sadly, though, I have to admit I was not into this episode as much as I wanted to be. I want to be sensitive in how I say this out of respect for our new members who were our actual "Karens" and "Hillarys" ... but, for me personally, I feel as if CC has explored this theme one too many times. That is, mothers being taken away / separated / prevented from seeing / exiled from / seen as unfit for their children. Given the main character of Lilly has longstanding issues with her mother, perhaps this is bound to be a theme that will continue to come up ... but for me, it's becoming somewhat predictable - and I say this from the perspective of following the show week in, week out. As a stand alone episode, this episode was gripping. In the context of all the other episodes, though, it was another mom missing child / without child / lost child episode.

Also, as for Lilly on this case ... I felt her exchange at the end with Karen was, for lack of a better way of putting it, something we’ve already heard before. Lilly's has talked - in short sound bites - for four years about how mom left her somewhere and/or forgot about her on numerous occasions while she went off and got drunk / how unfit mom was / how Lilly had to take care of her and her sister, etc., etc. ... thus, we already KNOW all of this. I would like to begin to hear the stuff we do NOT know as yet between and/or about mom and Lil' - the sort of anger/ frustration yet-still-wants-to-love-mom somehow / holds onto the one thought that she could, etc. I would much rather see the exploration of why Lilly still keeps her baby picture with mom in her wallet than to hear about mom being drunk and Lilly being left alone as a kid one more time.

For these reasons, this episode was only ok/good for me. It would not be best of the season for me, though I would venture to guess this ep will likely be on the Emmy consideration DVD. As such, I give the episode a lot of kudos for, as always, their powerful combination of sensitivity with directness in delivering very poignant vignettes about times, places and events in the past that are not always looked upon in the most sympathetic or understanding light.

But again, as I viewed this ep in more of a sequential context to the series as a whole, not as a stand alone, this ep played a little too "been there, done that" on its general theme, and recycled a little too much of the mom v. Lilly issue that needs to go to the NEXT level, IMHO.

I hope not to have offended anyone with my post.

[riche]

I would also like to thank firstmother, chris, and mamarobina for their insights on the issues raised. It is good to hear that you felt the show portrayed things accurately, with sensitivity and without the sort of slant that often gets put on these things.

To go to the Lilly issue. I think it was all about Lilly and her mother. She pretty much gave Lilly up due to drinking. Lilly feels some kinship with the babies in this story. She feels abandoned (and please note that I'm not saying these young mothers abandoned their babies). But, the character saying that a mother's love outweighs all that got Lil thinking. Perhaps in some way she's felt that all along, hence the photo.

I'm not discounting the possibility of Lilly having had a baby, or an abortion, but I don't think that was what this was about. We didn't see it but Lilly clearly went through the recordings Hilary made and seemed relatively unaffected by them.

On a lighter note did anyone notice the "she's our son" line when Hilary was talking to Huck in the record shop?

[Naj]

Hi LillyKat,

I know what you mean about the feeling we've already explored certain things and it feels like it's nothing new in the episode even Vera reused a former line... "your a real door prize". I thought with the new timeslot they'd ratch up the stories more but they haven't. That said for me I hold onto those eps that are more season 1 ish with Lilly leading the pack and less of the personal stuff on the others except for some on Lil. I know I'm biased and I just can't help it. It's just the roots of the show. I'm hoping they have something entirely new in the way of cases coming down the pike the remainder of the season.

[eurache]

As a catholic, yes, the ring on Sister Margaret's left finger meant she was married to God. I believe it's still the tradition for nuns who wish to join the order. The ring symbolizes to being married to God.

Which brings up a good point, these rings that the girls were given to them. Does that not mean they are children of God too? A very moving episode last night. I remember those days of unwed mothers sent away to have their babies. It was taboo to mention that your daughter was pregnant b/c they would worry about what their neighbors think. So sad I believe at some point those records of finding your child back then was not opened to the public. I'm so glad the files are available to those mothers who can now find their child and reunite with them.

btw Welcome FirstMother, Chris, and MamaRobina! Thank you for sharing your stories/experiences with us.

[TVFan]

I would also like to first thank FirstMother, Chris, and MamaRobina for their invaluable contributions to this topic. As LillyKat and others have said, your comments serve as the ultimate compliment to the show for their efforts. Episodes such as this enforce the importance that CC serves in the television world. It introduces new topics that were left out of the history books or it puts face to the ones that were included. Either way, it gets people talking about important topics that we tend to bury our heads in the sand about on a daily basis.

This episode was deeply emotional and extremely tragic. Honestly, I can't imagine having to go through what these women went through. Because of this, I had a hard time seeing Karen as anything other than another victim, herself. Knowing that Lil found her son, but she was heading off to jail was just as tragic as Hilary's murder for me. The legacy that this forceful surrender left is unmeasurable, and I think that CC did a nice job portraying that theme. To be honest, I was unfamiliar with Good-Bye Rooms and forceful adoptions, and I'm glad this episode brought them to light for me.

I loved having Lilly behind the wheel, and I thought her interrogation with Karen was excellent. She allowed herself to be as vulnerable as her suspect by stripping down her own emotions. RichE made a great point about Lilly feeling abandoned by her mother's alcohol abuse, and I think this is what allowed her to relate so easily to this case. Karen brought up some points that allowed her to see things a little differently than she had in the past, and thus, the picture at the end. Just the simple fact that she carries it around with her says a lot.

Overall, and exceptional episode that seemed to have everything going for it.

[riche]

tvfan said:

This episode was deeply emotional and extremely tragic. Honestly, I can't imagine having to go through what these women went through. Because of this, I had a hard time seeing Karen as anything other than another victim, herself. Knowing that Lil found her son, but she was heading off to jail was just as tragic as Hilary's murder for me.

Which just made me realise that they didn't show Karen being taken to a cell, one of the few episodes that this didn't happen. Perhaps they didn't want to labour the point any further.

I also noticed Stillman's look back at the case box after Vera put it on the shelf. Does that hint at something in his past?

How many people initially thought that the penultimate shot, of Barbara starting the tape recorder and lifting the baby blanket, was Lilly?

[longislanditalian2]

riche said:

I also noticed Stillman's look back at the case box after Vera put it on the shelf. Does that hint at something in his past?

How many people initially thought that the penultimate shot, of Barbara starting the tape recorder and lifting the baby blanket, was Lilly?

Maybe Stillman is thinking about Lilly's 49 and how the doer was never caught, or that he's really her father (which I doubt). I actually thought it was Lilly it would make perfect sense but I'm glad the writers just chose to show a picture of her and her mom instead.


There were tears in her eyes when Lilly viewed the picture, maybe she knew that she was loved but wanted to know why her mother did ended up being that way. Maybe she doesn't know what really made her become an alcholic, but Lilly in her heart wanted to relieve the moment that she felt some kind of love from her.

[firstmother]

I believe at some point those records of finding your child back then was not opened to the public. I'm so glad the files are available to those mothers who can now find their child and reunite with them.


Thanks so much for the welcome, empathy and support to all the Cold Case fans here. I just wanted to address the above statement though. Sadly, the records/files are NOT available for mothers to find their child. The records are only open in 5 states in the US and that is only for adoptees. Even though the opponants of open records use the excuse that the mothers were promised confidentiality, no state allows the mother to get information to find our child. We can put letters in their files at the agency or court the adoption took place in the event our children search for us, but we have learned that often even when our children do make contact with the agency, they are lied to and told that there is no information about us and that they should not disrupt our lives. They are told we probably got on with our lives and forgot about them. The laws are absolutely inhuman and insensitive to both natural parents and adoptees - treating us all as if we are still children not mature enough to handle relationships with our own flesh and blood.

Fortunately there are organizations and even investigating agencies that can sometimes help us find our children, but it is very difficult and expensive. And most people involved in adoption have no idea that those resources are even out there unless they connect with an Adoption Search and Support organization. It is my opinion that no mother should have to wonder her entire life if her child is alive and well.
I would love to see Cold Case do an episode with a story line on how difficult it is for adoptees and their natural parents to find each other. It is wonderful that the show takes sensitive issues and portrays them so accurately.