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Post by lillyfan on May 14, 2009 9:28:24 GMT -5
I think Scotty could have answered the phone just right before she was hit because the phone was still on when it flew from her hand onto the dash. Maybe he heard her getting struck and heard her gasp & then was cut off when she hit the water. If I got a call like that from someone I cared about I would assume somethings up. So if a witness did call it in maybe he put two & two together and figured out where she might be. Nothing gets mentioned about the phone call in the episode because she was dreaming.
Also, could it be possible that she had figured out most of the case in the cafe before she left. Could she have figured out that Ryan was the only one there on the weekends and the tickets against MO and him deciding to put Kate in a box and doctoring the sign out logs. Maybe she figured this all out and that's what she was calling Scotty about and when she was she was dreaming she started over with her initial suspicion of Gardner. And like Ali said, when she knew it wasn't him her subconscious got rid of him. This may not make sense but it could be a possibility, I guess, at least that's where I'm at now. This episode is going to have me thinking the entire summer that's what makes it so good.
And can someone tell me what Vera using a typewriter meant. It had to have meant something. And something else that I noticed is that she flashed back to getting hit on the bridge only twice throughout the episode. The first time when Vera got the gun from Ryan and the second when Scotty told Mo that he tried to take out his partner and he hit the desk, startling Lil. Does that mean anything, I mean why only those two times did she flash back to that.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 14, 2009 9:40:34 GMT -5
The typewriter could symbolized work that still left to be typed up, or an omen that her death might come. ince we sometimes see the people at the beginning typing up the death certificate, on the typewreiters before putting it into the case box
The flashes could represent where Lilly is now, that her life might be crushed. It can mean a lot of things, that she still living in this hallunication that this did happen and now she has to face it.
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leni810
Senior Detective
Posts: 569
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Post by leni810 on May 14, 2009 10:27:07 GMT -5
Yeah,lillyfan...In other way, they didn't need to put that phonecall at that moment. In scripts nothing is just coincidence... Anyway...
The typewriter maybe it was because when she first joined the forces they still used typewriters for the reports(?). Lilly doesn't have the sense of time. She messes up her life. Maybe she remembers her first interogations...
Maybe she flashed back only then because of the noises, the noise of the gun on the floor was the same with the phone on the dash and the noise of the chair hit by Scotty reminded her of the noise of the crash. Actually her flashbacks were provoked by noises events or movements, subconciously, if it was the other way she should have remembered the call when she was with Scotty but in fact we didn't see the phone in that flashback.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 14, 2009 10:33:53 GMT -5
Maybe the phone call wasn't relvent to the crash, thus why we didn't see the flashback of that. Lilly's whole life is a complete mess and that her hallunication is telling her something possibly how to change it.At the end right before we saw her being rescused we saw everything flashing before her eyes.
Gathered from what we had seen, Lilly doesn't have pretty much of a life. She's so immersed in her job that she has little reguards for anything else. On one side she wants to meet Cooper's family, what if it's really her that said that Cooper's kids really want to meet her. What if she's putting a picture into her mind about what a perfect family really is?
Either way Lilly's confused and scared, she's finally facing the reality of her own self for once. At the end seeing Kate in all white could mean a truce or peace. That Lilly's at peace with both her job and self.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605 
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 14, 2009 11:45:00 GMT -5
@ LII2 - Since that particular scene of Lilly riding her bike isn't a dream then I'm guessing that yes, it would symbolic for at least part of herself being freed.
About the typewriter. Again, I looked at the dream dictionary and the result for the typewriter was interesting.
- To dream about a typewriter indicates that you need to open up the lines of communication with someone.-
That someone in this case would be Lilly's father.
Here are some other symbols that appeared in Lilly's dream and what they mean.
Hallucinations - This is the unconscious mind showing you things you've repressed. It also represents things that you're hiding.
Corpse - Represents that something inside of you has died. Also indicates that you are unemotional/dead inside.
I'm seeing a pattern here. In a nutshell this entire dream (on the unconscious level) is revolved around Lilly's feelings for her father.
And I did remember something peculiar about Lilly in the dream. In certain parts she seemed to be more concerned with the letter her father gave her and not so much for nabbing Kate's murderer. Yet what's really interesting is that we never actually see her reading the letter in her dream. To me this symbolizes Lilly's need to reconnect with her father before her want for it consumes her life and, effects her job.
More later.
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Post by lillyfan on May 14, 2009 14:19:00 GMT -5
The typewriter could symbolized work that still left to be typed up, or an omen that her death might come. ince we sometimes see the people at the beginning typing up the death certificate, on the typewreiters before putting it into the case box The flashes could represent where Lilly is now, that her life might be crushed. It can mean a lot of things, that she still living in this hallunication that this did happen and now she has to face it. The typewriter maybe it was because when she first joined the forces they still used typewriters for the reports(?). Lilly doesn't have the sense of time. She messes up her life. Maybe she remembers her first interogations... Maybe she flashed back only then because of the noises, the noise of the gun on the floor was the same with the phone on the dash and the noise of the chair hit by Scotty reminded her of the noise of the crash. Actually her flashbacks were provoked by noises events or movements, subconciously, if it was the other way she should have remembered the call when she was with Scotty but in fact we didn't see the phone in that flashback. Thanks for the explainations guys, those possibilities make sense to me About the typewriter. Again, I looked at the dream dictionary and the result for the typewriter was interesting. - To dream about a typewriter indicates that you need to open up the lines of communication with someone.- That someone in this case would be Lilly's father. Here are some other symbols that appeared in Lilly's dream and what they mean. Hallucinations - This is the unconscious mind showing you things you've repressed. It also represents things that you're hiding. Corpse - Represents that something inside of you has died. Also indicates that you are unemotional/dead inside. I'm seeing a pattern here. In a nutshell this entire dream (on the unconscious level) is revolved around Lilly's feelings for her father. And I did remember something peculiar about Lilly in the dream. In certain parts she seemed to be more concerned with the letter her father gave her and not so much for nabbing Kate's murderer. Yet what's really interesting is that we never actually see her reading the letter in her dream. To me this symbolizes Lilly's need to reconnect with her father before her want for it consumes her life and, effects her job. More later. That's interesting, especially about the typewriter. I need to find one of those dictionaries!! |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
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"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 14, 2009 15:33:26 GMT -5
Some other things that I noticed.
1. As Leni810 pointed out in the screencaps thread. When Lilly shoots out the window the sequence of events goes like so. First Lilly gets her gun and looks at the passenger side window. Next shot she's pointing the gun at the driver's side window. Next shot she's swimming out of the passenger's side window. This is the first instance where we see a mirror effect.
2. After Lilly finishes purging herself she goes to wash her hands. Strangely enough we don't see her reflection in the mirror (or at least I didn't)
3. Around the beginning, when it's day time, there are desk lamps on at two of the desks but, yet, none of the desks are being used.
4. Whenever Lilly has a hallucination in which she sees herself in 1994 and 1998, there's a blonde woman who keeps walking away. Normally this wouldn't mean anything but, the camera focuses on her. We never see her turn around though. My guess is that this is another aspect of Lilly. Most likely it's the aspect of Lilly that likes to run away from her problems.
5. There's that part where Stillman and Cooper meet each other. So here we have a situation where Lilly's father and her father figure meet for the first time. I'm not looking up a dream dictionary for this but, my guess is that those two represent two aspects of Lilly colliding. Paul representing the future and Stillman representing the past. Lilly in this case obviously represents the present. The middle child caught between two others.
5. Now, this might be me looking too deeply at this but, through out the episode there's an emphasis on Lilly's right hand. When she wakes up in the hospital, her father is holding her left hand.
Anyways, changing the tune for a little while. I've been watching the ending montage on Youtube and, the part that always gets me is when Paul reads; "I missed so much of your life, for that I am sorry, not only to you but for depriving myself all those times you needed a father, somebody to protect you"
In a lot of ways the dream showed that Lilly is...well how do I say it? In certain ways she's like a child. Deep down inside there's a part of her that strongly yearns for her father's love and protection. Obviously she didn't have that when she was growing up. And no, Stillman doesn't count. Yes, he is a father figure to Lilly but, he's not her father. There is a pretty big difference there.
I also remember reading something that seems to relate. The article in itself was talking about God and the whole gender of God thing. The article stated that God is quite likely both genders (or epicene) because the mother and father represent two different aspects that the child looks up to. The mother is supposed to be the nurturer and comforter; while the father is supposed to be the protector and the provider.
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Post by lillyfan on May 14, 2009 18:52:32 GMT -5
I got to thinking that her saving herself in her dream could mean that she's very self reliant, she thinks that she doesn't need anyone. She had to grow up so quickly so she's basically taken care of herself and has never depended on anyone. And maybe that's why none of her coworkers seemed to notice or care when she looked like she was going to pass out.
So the dream and her father's letter hopefully sent the message that she doesn't have to go through life alone. There are people who love and care about her she just needs to trust those people. Of course, if I had to grow up like that I probably wouldn't have much faith in people either.
Man I hope we see another season. I don't want it to end with her in the hospital, as peaceful as that was. I want to see how she's going to handle all of this now.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
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"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 14, 2009 19:10:47 GMT -5
Yes, that's another good point! Hmm, I think another thing about this was that Lilly was displaying more emotion than usual while her coworkers weren't. Normally it's the other way around so, this is another sign of the mirror aspect.
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Post by jukeboxhero26 on May 14, 2009 22:05:09 GMT -5
And they choice of "Once" when Lil was riding her bike and getting out of the car was pretty good. "I got a bomd in my head that is gonna to explode" At the beginning we thought that the hallucinations was the "explosion", finally all the episode was. "Once upon a time I could control myself Once upon a time I could lose myself" Everything that followed up wasn't Lil's usual...
Thoughts anyone? |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 14, 2009 23:17:00 GMT -5
Personally I'm glad they didn't use Last Kiss. Of course this could be because the radio stations here played it into the ground and, despite having not heard the song in around 8 - 9 years I'll be glad if I never have to hear it.
With that said I figured that they would use Black for one of the ending songs. I have to say that it worked if you view the episode as centered around Lilly and her unconscious feelings towards her father. The song in this case seems to be a message from Paul to Lilly.
Speaking of music.
Someone mentioned that the scene where Kate Butler beat up Lawrence could have actually represented Lilly wanting to get revenge on her attacker. Appropriate then that they should use the song "Alive" during that scene; with the words "I'm still alive" repeating over and over again.
ETA part 2
It also dawned on me that in several scenes Lilly was acting really childish. She gets snippy with her father and Stillman. When things don't go her way when she's interrogating Moe; she practically throws a fit. Of course this is something that the conscious Lilly wouldn't do.
Also the expression on her face when she's actually rescued. If you look closely it's a lot different from the expression she had when she was shot in Stalker. The expression seems to be one of confusion and a little bit of helplessness. Of course this could be because Lilly's dream was so real that she's in shock about it being a dream.
I know from experience that's happened to me several times before. I'll be having a dream that is by all means realistic. Then I wake up.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 15, 2009 8:21:14 GMT -5
I caught something here, Stillman and Cooper already had met back in November 22nd, we see them standing together while Lilly gives her father the cold shoulder. I just thought I'd point that out
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toddsmitts
Veteran Detective
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Post by toddsmitts on May 15, 2009 12:24:54 GMT -5
Well, I FINALLY found the time yesterday to watch the episode. (I watched both at once, since I wanted to make caps for both for the wiki). Some of the stuff I'm about to mention may have been covered in someone else's post. I just don't have the will to look through either other pages' worth.
-I'm a little dubious about the whole "it was just a dream" plot device being used, discounting all but the last few minutes. It's been used on nearly every show at some point, from "Dallas", to "Family Guy". It just tends to make my eyes roll. It can be a bit of a cop out (no pun intended) at times. It wasn't so bad here, but it does raise some questions. Lilly is heading back, convinced Lawrence Gardner was the doer and gets run off the road. She dreams that Ryan and Moe and guilty, and when she wakes up, it turns out they are. So what ended up happening with Gardner? Obviously he didn't really die like in Lilly's dream. The alibi mentioned was in her dream as well? Was he involved? We didn't see him getting arrested at the end too.
-I will say that I liked the flashbacks to Lilly's earlier life a lot, including the revelation that she first met Stillman when she was a kid. Who else noticed that Anthony John Crane also played the younger Stillman way back in season one's "Glued"? That's definately not his voice though. I guess they had John Finn dub the voice, then sped it up so the voice wasn't as deep.
-I was raised in a household with two working parents, so as long as I can remember, the idea of men and women working has been normal to me. I naturally bristled at the guys who thought Kate didn't belong there. What interesting though, is that I found Courtney Gaines' arguments for single-sex education a tad unsettling. I've heard of female professors at co-ed colleges teaching classes with only female students permitted, which even many women have called hypocritical. I suppose just growing up believing segregation was wrong, it just doesn't sit well with me, regardless of any statistics that support it.
-I actually didn't realize it was Pearl Jam that did "Last Kiss" (which is actually a cover, by the way). You're right. It was a tad cheesy and wouldn't have fit. I actually wasn't terribly familiar with Pearl Jam's song, except for "Alive". I'll have to find a few more.
-Technically all the flashbacks to Kate from "Into the Blue" should probably be taken with a grain of salt, but I'll assume they pretty much went the way they did.
-Hard to believe we STILL don't know if this was the last episode of "Cold Case" ever, but a good sign-off if it was, (not a GREAT one, but a good one).
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Post by eduardodelroice on May 15, 2009 12:29:06 GMT -5
@todd: Yes, I also noticed that it wasn't Anthony Jon Crane's voice... Btw, the actor who played Younger Cooper was the same from Libertyville? He looked really different
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 15, 2009 12:32:35 GMT -5
Nope it was the same actor whom played young Paul Cooper in Libertyville, check out the cast lists it's the same person
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
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"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 15, 2009 13:18:41 GMT -5
@ Todd - I have to admit that at first I thought this episode being a dream would be a cop out (no pun intended) until I decided to see this episode as similar to the movie Jacob's Ladder. I think that the entire purpose of this episode was to be able to get a look inside Lilly's subconscious mind.
As for her figuring out it was Ryan and Moe in the dream and it actually being them who really did do it. She may have subconsciously believed they did it. Another possibility is that it was coincidence. Again, looking at the characters in the dream as aspects of Lilly; Ryan may have represented the part of Lilly who probably did feel weak, alone, and worthless. Ryan killing Kate in the dream could actually maybe be seen as one aspect of Lilly killing another aspect of her.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 15, 2009 13:23:01 GMT -5
The car light right before the credits could symbolized the light at the end of the tunnel, which Lilly had seen before in "Stalker". Hmm??
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 15, 2009 15:05:42 GMT -5
Was there a car light? I just recall it cutting to Lilly riding her bike and as soon as she rides off screen it fades to the credits.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 15, 2009 15:43:47 GMT -5
I meant right before the opening credits, Lilly seeing the light from car.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 15, 2009 19:05:25 GMT -5
Ahh that! Hmm according to the dream dictionary: 'To see a car's headlights indicates your inability to look beyond the past. You are dwelling on old issues.' Actually it makes me wonder what happened in that scene. One moment there's a car coming at her, the next minute she's in the hospital and it's daytime. This is odd for a few reasons. 1. Although we don't know the exact time that Lilly crashed into the river we do know it was around night time, and it would have to be during a time when the restaraunts are still open. To me this indicates that the crash happened somewhere between 10pm and 12am. Okay, so in the dream she gets out of the river and swims to safety, wanders out into the road, and then she sees a headlight. Suddenly, boom! She's in the hospital and when she leaves it's day time. BTW here's some other dream symbols that I found interesting. All taken from dreammoods.com/dreamdictionarySwimming To dream that you are swimming, suggests that you are exploring aspects of your unconscious mind and emotions. The dream may be a sign that you are seeking some sort of emotional support. It is a common dream image for people going through therapy. To dream that you are swimming underwater, suggests that you are completely submerged in your own feelings. You are forcing yourself to deal with your emotional difficulties. Mirror (Note: I only listed the ones that actually pertained to Lilly in this dream.) To dream that you are looking through a two-way mirror, indicates that you are coming face to face with some inner or worldly issue. What you see is related to your persona and unconscious. Seeing images through the mirror may be a safe way for you to consider and/or confront material from your unconscious. Mirrors symbolize the imagination and a link between the conscious and unconscious. To dream that you are being watched through a two-way mirror, suggests that you feel you are being scrutinized and criticized. Alternatively, you may be blocking or unwilling to acknowledge your unconscious emotions. |
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