myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on May 13, 2009 16:50:32 GMT -5
@ali Couldn't have said it better. The scene with Scotty and her finding the hanged up Lawrence and concluding in short time, it was no suicide but murder, was somewhat funny. See the knot on the wrong side ... not so typical for CC, I think. Fun, what little details they remembered or noticed. How many of you did notice and keep in mind, that Lawrence was left handed? Nobody knows... Too much was left to our imagination I still can't understand why Lilly would dream the same exact thing that happened in real life and more when she suspected of Lawrence... Too many things left unexplained Actually she didn't dream the exact same thing as they happened in real life. Example: in her dream it was Vera checking the logs of the barracks again and finding that Ryan was the one always staying weekends there, in the closing montage it looks like Jeffries did that work. And we're left in the dark about Lawrence (though I didn't spot him in the line, when they're marching off Ryan and Moe). Mostly we only assume, that things had been and happened quite like in Lilly's dream, we don't actually get to see it, so we don't know. Given, with the normal flash backs in Lilly's dream we're led to think it was like that. So we can wonder now about a lot of things, did Kate's father went to see Murillo for example, did she hold that little speech in the chapel, did James write her that note, and so on. It is all just imagination. We probably will never get an answer. They really play on us with this episode. It is interesting, that Lilly has her own flashback during the dream/hallucination, we kinda have two layers of hallucinations. The dream about the investigation and Lilly's resurfacing memory of her own life, important moments (the latter something we usually expect to happen in NDE). The investigation dream is kinda repressing her own life memories. Very much into the blue, isn't she. Someone was wondering about why blue line. Thin blue line is used in the context of that there is just a more or less small amount of police officers preventing civilized society to descent into chaos, similar to the phrase "thin red line" used in military context. You can find a side name dblue line, where you can look for job offers in police and rescue in the US. Blue is the color of many police forces all over the world. I was somewhat irritated, that they were talking about "the long blue line " in context with the PMI, but they had blue uniforms there (to distinguish from real army service, I guess). True-blue means very loyal. In psychology blue is connected with serenity, committement, being stable and confident (reason why so many companies like to use blue on their websides and booklets). In mythology it sometimes presents spirituality (connected to the element air in the classical greek teaching of elements, though yellow and violett are more used for it). Of course it is a color of emotion as being the color of water as well. Blue is particular associated in English with being sad and melancholic (in German blue is though connected with being drunken). Just some more brainstorming  |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605 
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 13, 2009 16:57:13 GMT -5
Hmmm, I think the key to enjoying this episode is not to take it so literally but, to see it as what it is, a dream episode. Once you can suspend your belief then and only then will the episode make sense,
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Post by eduardodelroice on May 13, 2009 18:29:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation of the blue issue Myril
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 13, 2009 18:31:55 GMT -5
I found cooper's letter to Lilly very moving and emotional, anyone think that as well
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leni810
Senior Detective
Posts: 569
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Post by leni810 on May 13, 2009 18:48:31 GMT -5
The letter was absolute reallistic. I was afraid of something more soapish but it wasn't. Her father made himself clear, he spoke the truth... He admitted everything but he gave his promise...
I hope that they'll keep him frequent in the next(hopefully) season. Lil's evolution, with someone who will be really next to her, would be the best thing happened in this series.
Btw did anyone else notice that there weren't specific dates on Lil's flashbacks? Only what we saw in the promo and in the cast, on screen nothing...
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 13, 2009 18:55:11 GMT -5
From the promos it stated 1976- Little lilly on her bike. 1980- Lilly's attack when she was ten
1994- Lilly in uniform and 1998- Lilly with really long hair in stillman's office. Remember lilly entered homicide in 1999.
What I was impressed with was the fact that Lilly's father was able to apologize and move on. His addiction to alcohol was strong that he had no other choice than to leave Lilly with her mother. I think now she understands, but I loved the last line of Cooper's letter.
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leni810
Senior Detective
Posts: 569
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Post by leni810 on May 13, 2009 19:00:31 GMT -5
He admitted what he did. That's the baseline to admit his mistake. She now can understand. She is old enough.
Yeah I loved another phrase too!
It was so real! In fact it's the reallity about both of our parents...
"Like it or not you only get one father" and one mother...
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 13, 2009 19:11:50 GMT -5
At least Lilly has one parent that isn't messed up, there is hope for her. I do like Cooper, he seems to be a very loving father to her
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Post by eduardodelroice on May 13, 2009 20:12:47 GMT -5
Oh I love the 1994 and 1998 flashbacks
She looked younger... Good make up
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 13, 2009 20:39:19 GMT -5
I think I almost cried during that part. The ending was such a far cry from the season 4 ending where Lilly had lost her mom.
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Post by jukeboxhero26 on May 13, 2009 20:53:45 GMT -5
After I saw the episode last Sunday night when it originally aired, I had a bad dream and woke up at 3AM and couldn't get back to sleep. I watched it again the following night, as I put it on DVD. Being really into music and having "audiophile ears," did anyone catch the background noise during Lilly's scenes in the interview room. It was ACTUALLY the sound of being under the ocean! I played it back and it was during all of those scenes!
Ironically, after fast forwarding and watching some of it again this past Monday...yes, I had another bad dream. Only this time I woke up after 5AM. I'm not watching it again!!!!!
Oh well. Tonight, I know I will sleep well! 
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myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on May 13, 2009 23:54:43 GMT -5
I found cooper's letter to Lilly very moving and emotional, anyone think that as well Sort of. As Leni said, the letter is realistic, I got once a quite similar one from my dad, so some of my first reactions were more personal. Anyway. Emotions are something you can't always control by understanding something, so I am not sure, where their relationship will go. Maybe Lilly will now have her happy family ending, so to speak. @ jukeboxhero - you're right, there is a particular noise in the interrogation room (box!) scenes with Lilly, like water rushing or the low frequency kind of sound you can hear water waves making, though somehow I my first thought was, air conditioning, and didn't pay much attention to it then while watching. But yep, it could be underwater noise. Subtle. Hope you have a better and tight sleep tonight. |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 14, 2009 0:30:28 GMT -5
Come to think of it. I did notice there was a peculiar sound during the interrogation scenes but, didn't figure it to be water. Now that you mentioned it, it makes sense.
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ali
Senior Detective
Social One[/color]
Posts: 560
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Post by ali on May 14, 2009 2:43:36 GMT -5
Another point that delighted me: the real/unreal matter.
I have to admit that I usually don't like the dream trick: it was used and abused in many books, movies, tv shows, and also in my essays at school.
I was disappointed when it was used in a show I loved (CSI, maybe...).
On movies the dream is usually too much real or too much unreal to be a convincing explanation to whatever happened: sometimes you see something that has nothing to do with a dream, then somebody dies, and at the end you discover that it wasn't real and all the characters enjoy good health (boring).
IMHO, in Into the Blue the dream/allucination stuff was used in a very intelligent way.
First of all, everything has got an intrinsic consistency; it's a dream, and all events were connected in a dream's way: association of ideas (Paul turning his ring > Paul turning his ring when he left her; a female blonde cop with the pony tail > young Lilly...).
In the dream, we can distinguish between some parts more similar to the normal Cold Case formula (investigation and flashback), and some other moments that in a normal episode would be somehow unrealistic (Lilly's pain, the water).
Ironically, what seemed more real was a figment of Lilly's mind, and when she was confused, when she was freezing, when she saw water everywere, all those things were the only real things in that dream: her body and her mind were saying "Hey! You are closed in a car under water!".
It's like having a dream with a toothache...you are kissing the man of your life (a sort of prince charming who looks like Jude Law), and you feel an annoying pain in your mouth: forget Jude Law! The only thing you has for real is your toothache!
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leni810
Senior Detective
Posts: 569
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Post by leni810 on May 14, 2009 3:09:58 GMT -5
It's like having a dream with a toothache...you are kissing the man of your life (a sort of prince charming who looks like Jude Law), and you feel an annoying pain in your mouth: forget Jude Law! The only thing you has for real is your toothache! What a disappointement when you wake up!!hehe!! ;D ;D ;D  We didn't learn finally how the rescuers and the others appeared. Kat knew which car drove Lilly off her road, maybe there were witnesses. But how they knew that it was Lil? Scotty should have heard. They found the point and after the witnesses. And they choice of "Once" when Lil was riding her bike and getting out of the car was pretty good. "I got a bomd in my head that is gonna to explode" At the beginning we thought that the hallucinations was the "explosion", finally all the episode was. "Once upon a time I could control myself Once upon a time I could lose myself" Everything that followed up wasn't Lil's usual... Btw, not only Lil was driving and using her cell without a bluetooth but she didn't wear a seatbelt, too... "Safe" driving...!  |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 14, 2009 5:18:56 GMT -5
Okay this is interesting. Normally I don't take much stock in dream dictionaries because, I find the meanings to be really stupid. (If joo dreamz about yours toes eet means that joo are eatings too muchz chickeen.)
But there was one about Childhood and something stuck out.
To dream about your childhood may also represent that there are issues from your childhood that you have yet to integrate into your personal life (or) issues from your childhood that are unresolved.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 14, 2009 7:07:25 GMT -5
@leni- what if the squad somehow found out what had happened to her. I don't believe that Scotty heard anything, the call might have been cut off once Lilly's car had plunged into the river.
@rev- About Lilly dreaming about her childhood, at the end we saw the scene fading out of her father holding her hand in the hospital to her riding her bike happily as a little kid. We know that he was the once whom had given her the bike, but could this mean something??
Before we saw the flashback of Cooper and Little Lilly, Cooper was twisting his ring, hmm was this a sign that he was still hiding something?
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leni810
Senior Detective
Posts: 569
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Post by leni810 on May 14, 2009 7:50:12 GMT -5
How they could figure out that Lil ended up in the bottom of the river?
To find out that something was going on they would need hours and at first they should have worried because Lil was late. Keeping in mind that it seemed it was pretty late, so maybe Lil was driving home and not at the office, they would realise her absence in the morning. Lil would have died.
Even if there were witnesses that called the police, the team couldn't know that Lil was in the car that fell from the bridge and be there...
If Scotty heard, he knew something was wrong. Even if the call was cut, they could find where the phone shutted down from the service company and locate her much faster. I don't know...Just curiosity.
Vera said something while they were taking Lil but I didn't get it...
Hiding anything else?? What could be??
In fact we actually don't know if this with Lil meeting his family is real. Lil dreamed of it. It's what she wants to happen. In the letter, actually, he didn't mention anything...
And another point: If Cooper was married to Ellen Rush (he wears a ring talking to little Lil) how Lil hasn't his last name??
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 14, 2009 8:05:17 GMT -5
Vera stated that Lilly kept on going on and on about Lawerence, since it was probably the last thing that went through her mind right before she crashed.
Second what if Moe was the one whom had called, and acted as if he witnessed Lilly's car losing control and going off the bridge. Or he had someone else call it in, that wasn't going to be traced back to the school?
I do agree with you Leni, about Lilly wanting to meet Cooper's family. She wants to be part of a family, that's the one thing that she's missed her whole life. What if Ellen Rush had Lilly's brith certifitcate changed after Paul had left, it would explain for why her last name isn't cooper. Or that she simply didn't want Lilly to have her husband's last name after she had been born??
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leni810
Senior Detective
Posts: 569
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Post by leni810 on May 14, 2009 9:19:48 GMT -5
Or maybe because she is afraid of the dream that Lawerence is killed...
Yeah, these are logical explanations for the name. Maybe...
As for the call, Moe wanted her dead why would he call? Even if he had thought that Lil was already dead, he would have left a great time untill he would falsely witness. Why to do that all, however? Risking leaving more tracks behind him?
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