Ep 6.23 Into the Blue

[longislanditalian2]

Seeking emotional support, well Lilly got that at the end. I think she was seeking it from her father, but if you look at her face when she wakes up in the hospital, Lilly's almost surprised about seeing him sitting there, holding her hand.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

I don't blame her. Remember, the second last time she saw her father was in the episode "November 22nd" and their parting was not on the best terms. The last time she saw him was when he gave her the letter and she was rather cold to him.

So, yes, I can see her waking up and seeing her father and thinking about how he didn't leave her.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Hate to double post but, here's a list of all the symbols that appeared in Lilly's dream and there meanings

Notable Objects that appeared in Lilly’s Dream + there meanings

Bathroom - To dream that you are in the bathroom, relates to your instinctual urges. You may be experiencing some burdens/feelings and need to "relieve yourself". Alternatively, it may symbolize purification and self-renewal. You need to cleanse yourself, both emotionally and psychologically.

Bicycle - To dream that you are riding a bicycle, signifies your desires to attain a balance in your life. You need to balance work and pleasure in order to succeed in your current undertakings. If you have difficulties riding the bicycle, then it suggests that you are experiencing anxieties about making it on your own.
To see a bicycle in your dream, indicates that you need to devote time to leisurely pursuits and recreation

Boss - To see your boss in your dream, represents the bossy or authoritative side of your own personality. Your boss may reveal self-confidence and the assertive aspect of yourself. It is telling of your issues of control and authority. Alternatively, to see your boss in your dream may indicate your over-involvement or obsession with your work. Negatively, the boss in your dream may symbolize your limitations and lack of freedom/originality.
To dream that you are afraid of your boss, indicates your fear of authority. You may feel that someone else is running your life or dictating what you can and can not do.
Consider also the relationship you have with your boss. This may provide clues to work-related stress or issues that need to be resolved.

Car Accident - To dream of a car accident, symbolizes your emotional state. You may be harboring deep anxieties and fears. Are you "driving" yourself too hard? This dream may tell you to slow down before you hit disaster. You need to rethink or re-plan your course of actions and set yourself on a better path.

Childhood - To dream of your childhood, indicates your wish to return to a life where you had little responsibility and worries. It also represents innocence. Alternatively, it suggests that certain aspects of your childhood has not yet been integrated into your adult personality. Or on the other hand, some childhood anxiety has yet to be resolved in your adult life.

Cold - To dream that you are cold, indicates that you are experiencing a breakthrough in some area in your life. Alternatively, you may be feeling isolated or emotionally restrained. Your sense of coldness could reflect your feelings about a lover or a certain person. The dream may also occur as a result of your immediate environment in which you are really feeling cold.

Corpse - To see a corpse in your dream, represents an aspect of yourself that has died. Or it may mean that you are unexpressive. You have shut yourself down and are dead inside

Co-worker - To see your coworkers in your dream, highlights aspects of your waking relationship with them, including difficulties/support. It signifies your ambition, struggles and competitive nature. If the coworkers in your dream are not your actual coworkers, then they may pertain to some psychological business that you need to work on. Work-related dreams can also often be linked to stress at work.

To dream that you are training someone to take your place, suggests that you are moving toward deeper inner development. You are leaving behind old attitudes and are looking toward the future.

Drowning - To dream that you are drowning, indicates that you are feeling overwhelmed by emotions or repressed issues that are coming back to haunt you. You may be proceeding too quickly in trying to discover your unconscious thoughts. You should proceed more cautiously and slowly. If you drown to death, then is refers to an emotional rebirth. If your survive the drowning, then a waking relationship or situation will ultimately survive the turmoil.

Faint - To dream that you are fainting, suggests your inability to confront some unconscious issue or feelings. You need to be more aware and acknowledge of those feelings.

Father - To see your father in your dream, symbolizes authority and protection. It suggests that you need to be more self-reliant. Consider also your waking relationship with your father and how aspects of his character may be incorporated within yourself.

Hallucinations - To have a hallucination in your dream, symbolizes an image from your unconscious. They can also represent repressed emotions and feelings that you do not want to confront. Your dream may be telling you to be more alert and to express yourself more clearly. Alternatively, it refers to self-deception. What are you trying to hide?

Headlight - To see a car's headlights in your dream, indicates your inability to look beyond the past. You are dwelling on old issues. Alternatively, the dream may suggests that you are being caught off guard or caught by surprised as in a deer in the headlights.

Hospital - To see or dream that you are in a hospital, symbolizes your need to heal or improve your physical or mental heath. You need to get back to the flow of everyday life. Alternatively, it suggests that you are giving up control of your own body or that you are afraid of losing control of your body.

Letter - To dream that you receive a letter, signifies a new opportunity or challenge. Alternatively, the letter represents a message from your unconscious mind. The contents of the letter may offer you some guidance in a current situation. Consider also how the letter may be a pun on "let her".
To tear up a letter in you dream, symbolizes past mistakes and regrets in your life.

Medicine - To dream that you are taking medicine, represents a period of emotional and/or spiritual healing. It also indicates that the troubles you are experiencing are only temporary. Things will work out in the long run.

Mirror - To see your own reflection in the mirror, suggests that you are pondering thoughts about your inner self. The reflection in the mirror is how you perceive yourself or how you want others to see you. You may be contemplating on strengthening and changing aspects of your character. If the mirror is cracked or broken, then it represents a poor or distorted self-image. Alternatively, it suggests that you have put an end to your old habits and ways.

To dream that you are looking through a two-way mirror, indicates that you are coming face to face with some inner or worldly issue. What you see is related to your persona and unconscious. Seeing images through the mirror may be a safe way for you to consider and/or confront material from your unconscious. Mirrors symbolize the imagination and a link between the conscious and unconscious. But if you are being watched through a two-way mirror, then it suggests that you feel you are being scrutinized and criticized. Alternatively, you may be blocking or unwilling to acknowledge your unconscious emotions.

Night - To have a dream that takes place at night, represents some major setbacks and obstacles in achieving your goals. There are some issues in your life that you are facing, but are not too clear. You should put the issues aside so you can clear your head and come back to it later. Alternatively, night may be synonymous with death, rebirth, reflection, and new beginnings

Pills - To see or take a pill in your dream, signifies a restoration of your inner harmony. It is a period of healing and an end to those negative ideas in your mind. Alternatively, the dream may be a metaphor for something that is hard to follow.

Purse/Bag - To see or carry a purse in your dream, represents secrets, desires and thoughts which are being closely held and guarded. It symbolizes your identity and sense of self. Consider also the condition of the purse for indications of your state of mind or feelings. Alternatively, a purse symbolizes the female genitalia and the womb.

Road - To see a road in your dream, indicates your sense of direction and pursuit of your goals. To see a winding, curvy, or bumpy road in your dream, suggests that you will encounter many obstacles and setbacks toward achieving your goals. You may be met with unexpected difficulties. If the road is dark, then it reflects the darker or more frightening choices which you have made or are making.

Street - To see a street in your dream, symbolizes your life's path. The condition of the street reflects how much control you have over the direction of your life. Is there a name on the street which can offer some significance or hints to the meaning of the dream.
To see side streets, refers to a need to explore and return to more traditional ways. It may also suggest and alternative way of life.

Swimming - To dream that you are swimming, suggests that you are exploring aspects of your unconscious mind and emotions. The dream may be a sign that you are seeking some sort of emotional support. It is a common dream image for people going through therapy.
To dream that you are swimming underwater, suggests that you are completely submerged in your own feelings. You are forcing yourself to deal with your emotional difficulties.

Tired - To dream that you are tired, suggests that you are feeling emotionally drained and stressed. Dreams about being tired usually reflect how you really feel in your waking state.

Typewriter - To see a typewriter in your dream, indicates that you need to open the lines of communication with someone in your life.

Vomiting - To dream that you are vomiting, indicates that you need to reject or discard an aspect of your life that is revolting. There are some emotions or concepts that you need to confront and then let go.

Water - To see water in your dream, symbolizes your unconscious and your emotional state of mind. Water is the living essence of the psyche and the flow of life energy. It is also symbolic of spirituality, knowledge, healing and refreshment. If the water is calm, clear, then it signifies that you are in tune with your spirituality. It denotes serenity, peace of mind, and rejuvenation. If you are splashed by water, then it represents your need to be revitalized and more expressive. To dream that water is boiling, suggests that you are expressing some emotional turmoil. It also may mean that feelings from your unconscious are surfacing and ready to be acknowledged. You need to let out some steam.
To see muddy or dirty water in your dream, indicates that you are wallowing in your negative emotions. You may need to devote some time to clarify your mind and find internal peace. Alternatively, it suggests that your thinking/judgment is unclear and clouded. If you are immersed in muddy water, then it indicates that you are in over your head in a situation and are overwhelmed by your emotions.
To hear running water in your dream, denotes meditation, reflection and pondering of your thoughts and emotions.

Washing - To dream that you are washing your hands, represents a worrisome issue that you need to work through. Alternatively, it suggests that you are denying or no longer taking responsibility for some matter. You are letting go and getting things out of your system.

Wet - To dream that you are wet, suggests that you are drenched or overcome with your emotions. It also signifies a spiritual cleansing, rebirth or renewal.

Yelling - To dream that you or someone is yelling, represents repressed anger that need to be expressed. If you are yelling and no one hears, then it suggests that you are being ignored. You feel that your voice does not matter or that your opinion doesn't count.



I've counted 26 symbols thus far. Of those 26 symbols 20 of them have to deal with Lilly's emotional state, feelings, and unconscious mind.

ETA 28 symbols found. 22 having to deal with Lilly's emotional state, feelings, and unconscious mind.

ETA 29 - 30 symbols found.

[longislanditalian2]

Hmm, very good Rev to look these things up. Perhaps these are all signs that Lilly's going to change, or realize things about herself now. The one that interests me the most, is her seeing her father and how her relationship is with him now. It seems to me that she's afraid to let him in, but knows that he didn't leave her.

In fact I just re-watched the episode in Closed Captioning the last line of the letter states" and I'm proud of you". which goes right along with her opening her eyes and seeing him. I do think in his heart Cooper realized what was important; Lilly. There's no doubt in my mind that he never stopped loving her, but the letter clearly states his own feelings perfectly.

If only Lilly could express them better, she'd be a better person. I think Lilly can't express her feelings or even let the past hurt go. Instead she thinks it's better to hold them inside, but clearly it's the reason why she's alone.

[byrdman9802]

Hey boys and girls!

Oh man, this episode......I have to admit, this one threw me for a loop! There was just so much that went on, and after the first time I saw it, I was just left scratching my head and saying "huh"?

Please don't get me wrong, it was a season finale and an episode with KM, and that is always great in my mind, but it was just sort of strange the way that it ended. It was all a dream......

And watching Lilly go through everything that she had to in those scenes was bad as well. Having to get out of the water, flashing into flashbacks, in and out of situations, getting sick, etc. Then we find out that none of it happened actually, and then divers rescued Lilly and then the dead Private Butler walked by her as she was being wheeled into the ambulance, and then the other detectives solved the case on their own......I have to admit that this episode caused some confusion for me.

I guess Cooper did not actually explain about his family to Lilly then? Sorry, there are simply several unanswered questions that I still have here. Oh well, I gave this ep an OK simply because of that. I truly hope that this was not the last episode.

Keep your fingers crossed for this coming Wednesday, boys and girls! I need some more explanations for that episode!

[longislanditalian2]

We don't actually know if Cooper told his family about Lilly, but he probably did if he went to see Lilly in the hospital, I'm sure he told them. Especially after the episode" November 22nd", it probably got him to speak to them about Lilly.

Anyone notice in the flashback, Young Cooper calls Little Lilly" Pook"?

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Hmm, I vaguely remember the "Pook" thing.

I'm also wondering just how long Lilly was in the car. The dream if you watch closely, repeats a cycle that follows the stages of sleep. I believe it's when Lilly starts nodding off in her dream, is about to pass out, has those audio hallucinations that she's in stage 2 - 3 of the sleep cycle. It's when the dream is actually "clearer" that she's in the REM stage of sleep.


Hmm, and another curious thing as well. When the water starts pouring into the room, the scene suddenly flashes to show Lilly in the car with the divers trying to rescue her. Then suddenly it switches back to her dream in which Lilly sees the glass starting to break, before her dream finally ends. I have to wonder if Lilly actually gained consciousness after seeing the water flowing in, then went unconscious again and resumed her dream. This time the dream and reality mixing. (It's obvious the interrogation room is actually the car and the mirror breaking is the car windows being broken.)

ETA

added entries to the symbol list for "Cold" and "Wet"

[longislanditalian2]

The " Pook" thing was Lilly's flashback to when she was six, she was playing Chess with her father when he told her that he had to leave.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

And now it's obvious ( at least to me) that the type of dream Lilly had was what's known as an 'epic dream'

[toddsmitts]

I wonder how much thought (if any) the writers themselves put into the supposed symbols in the episode. I almost wonder if we're not overthinking this. Even Freud himself said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" (and no, that wasn't a reference to the Commandant's favorite past-time).

[The Reverend Bizarre]

As someone who's a part of the Silent Hill fandom (and that series is full of symbolism) I have to disagree with the idea that the writers didn't put any thought into the symbols of the episode. For one thing, as mentioned above; nearly all the symbols follow a similar theme.

I like to think that the writers of this show aren't just smart but, they also realize fans of this show are smart. So thought would have to be placed into this episode, lest the fans catch on and go, "wait a minute".



Here's a brief analysis of Lilly's dream. She has repressed emotions/feelings concerning her father that stem from him leaving when she was six years old. She has not let go of this but, has shoved these feelings deep into her unconscious mind. She's resentful of him leaving because, (to her) if he had not left, she wouldn't have been attacked. Deep down inside she resents him and blames him for this. But this sort of feeling is childish so Lilly quickly locks it up.

But there's also the aspects of renewal, spiritual cleansing, and rebirth found in this dream. Which indicates that so long as Lilly can let these feelings go, her and her father will have a good relationship.


Oh, and I really don't like Freud. Had he heard of this dream he probably would have stated that the entire thing was symbolic of Lilly secretly wanting the male genitalia or that she's gay.

"sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

except when it's not. I'm trying to recall but, I don't remember any of these occurences happening before in any of the other episodes.

1. Nick typing on an old fashioned typewriter
2. Lilly actually displaying her discomfort. (aka not shoving it inside.)
3. Lilly getting ready to pass out
4. Lilly being more concerned over one of her personal artifacts than actually solving a case. (Note, it's when she sees the envelope with the letter inside while questioning Moe, that everything comes to ahead and she's awakened.)
5. Lilly acting confused.


Now, over thinking this would be me looking at the sign that appears during the mirror cracking scene, translating that with the Atbash cypher, looking up the meaning (if there is any) and posting it.


ETA

Watching some of the clips and something amused me. When Lilly is seen in the hospital you can hear someone saying "Dr. Kaufman, telephone. Dr, Kaufman."

There's a character in Silent Hill who goes by that exact name. And while I'd like to think it's a homage I'm chocking it up to coincidence.

Still amusing as hell though.

[myril]

May 17, 2009 2:08:41 GMT -5 The Reverend Bizarre said:

Oh, and I really don't like Freud. Had he heard of this dream he probably would have stated that the entire thing was symbolic of Lilly secretly wanting the male genitalia or that she's gay.

Freud probably wouldn't be so far away from your ideas and interpretation of Lilly's dream than you think, though he would focus on detail and ignore more or less the overall dream. It is possible there is more than one latent content in it, and possible more than one repressed desire or wish or emotional issue.

Freud established the modern idea, that dreams are a way to discover and understand what's going on in our unconsciousness, not as a popular party game but as something science took more seriously again. In his theory the ground for all dream content is simple wish-fullfilment - the domain of Id, that is effectively controlled in most adults by Super-Ego, even in dreams, so it can only work with more or less innocent, disguised pictures. In his work sexual desires make a huge part in wish-fullfilment (as being the most repressed area in most people - mind in what time Freud lived), but it's more than that. The common reduction of Freud's theories as being focused on sexual desires is a common missunderstanding.

To construe Lilly's dream Freud would most certainly have started with asking Lilly herself to do some free association about the details (the less important it seems to her, the more signifcant it might be), persons, places, things in her dream, and not read a dream symbole dictionary. His idea though was, that there are commonly used representions and symbols, but not that they always mean the same thing. The dreamer is influenced by culture, this culture suggest symbols, nevertheless it can have a different meaning on indiviual level and in different context.

Freud eventually might have in mind for example, listening to her ideas, that water and swimming in his experience and conclusion often represented wishing to be in the most secure and comfortable zone every human has once experienced in their lives, the motherly womb, but the question would be, if Lilly would associate that with water herself, if that would be actually the latent content in her dream. It looks more like a threat here, does it, though that could make sense.

May 17, 2009 1:45:32 GMT -5 toddsmitts said:

I wonder how much thought (if any) the writers themselves put into the supposed symbols in the episode. I almost wonder if we're not overthinking this. Even Freud himself said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" (and no, that wasn't a reference to the Commandant's favorite past-time).

I often wonder myself, how much thought writers do put into their writing (especially in tv business concidering the little time they have to write), but, well, will be different between writers. Am pretty sure most writers like to play with symbolism, though it might not be elaborate all the time. Either way, there is what the writers probably implied or what they think about their writing, and there is what director and actors make of it, and then there is what us as audience reads into it. Can be different things. We probably should just try not to confuse it with one another. We don't know, what the writers and the crew wanted it to be, we can only talk about how we understand it.

In short: we might be way off in our reading, but nevertheless it's one way to interpret the episode. And it's fun, isn't it.

[longislanditalian2]

I don't think Lilly blames her father for what happened, I think she wants to be closer to him but is afraid of being hurt again. Sure she was upset about him leaving, but at the end, sees that he always loved her and that no matter what he'll always be there for her; like in the letter.

Yes Lilly has a major problem of letting the past go, and holding onto the bad stuff. It's like her head is so wound up in these negetive past of hers she can't be happy or find a true love. Instead in her own mind, she prefers to be alone so that the past can live playing over and over again in her own mind.

Does Lilly hate this, yes. She probably doesn't like to be alone but her whole life as been her defending herself and keeping stuff bottled in. Her dreams are telling her that, perhaps having her father there isn't a bad thing at all. Lilly doesn't know how to be a daughter, she's always played the role as the parent as with her mother.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

@ myrill - Hmmm. Maybe I was too quick to judge. I only stated that because, in most of the dreams I've read, Freud interpreted them with quite a bit of sexual innuendo.

But, let's say that Lilly's dream was a look into her id. The question is, is what is her primary id? Ironically there are two symbols in her dream that stand for the female genitalia, the womb, and the male genitalia. However, the first two are associated with her purse, and that already has a meaning to it (in regards to Lilly's dream) and the gun? I think this is a case where "a gun is just a gun."

I'm now wondering if Lilly's id is based more on violence than say, sexual gratification.

Personally, I've analyzed some dreams before but, I choose to look at the over all dream and how the dreamer is feeling. I really don't pay much heed to the symbols unless they really stand out.


And two other things I noticed.

1. When Lilly gets out of the hospital and, is talking to Stillman, you can hear loud sirens. I believe this is when the ambulance and rescue team arrived in the real world.

2. I suspect that Ryan (as according to Lilly's dream) was a representation of her mom. Kate Butler represented Lilly (or vicariously did) Lawrence represented her attacker, and James represented her father.

There are six events that happen. 3 flashback 3 non-flashback. For now I'll focus on the flashback

1. Kate going against Lawrence and beating him down. Followed by seething, "Don't you EVER come near me again!"

Represents Lilly's desire to find her assaulter and do just about the same thing.

2. Kate and James talking about being together. It's a bit odd how there's absolutely no romantic chemistry between them. What I saw was something more akin to an older brother and a younger sister. What sets up this scene was a letter.

Nearly the same parallel happens between Paul and Lilly. In fact, in the dream James was chastised for not being there to protect Kate when she was assaulted. Paul wasn't there to protect Lilly when she was assaulted.

3. Ryan coming into Kate's room and eventually killing her. If Kate is supposed to represent Lilly, then a part of Lilly is killed off. (or was killed off.) It was right after Ellen's death (and shooting) that Lilly started acting like a zombie.

The parallel's between Ryan and Ellen are there. Both of them couldn't amount up to anything. Both of them were selfish (Ryan wanted Kate to toss away her plans to help him. Ellen wanted Lilly to shove aside her plans to help her.) and both of them had a rage that resulted in the others "death"

[longislanditalian2]

Very interesting theory, but we do know that everytime Ellen was around she'd managed to hurt Lilly even more. With Paul it's different, she feels comforted and safe with him. In the flashbacks, little Lilly even put up a front trying to avoid her feelings. You can tell that she didn't want him to leave, at the end in the hospital, Lilly appears to look at him almost as if she wants to forgive him.

She's comforted and happy that his there, but the way that he's holding onto her hand if almost symbolic like it's his heart; showing how strong his love for his own daughter is.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Ellen really only succeeded in hurting Lilly. At least with Paul, he actually left because, he realized that staying wouldn't have been good for Lilly.

[longislanditalian2]

Although Paul left Lilly when she was six, he actually was doing the right thing. He cleaned up his own alcoholic addiction, but by the time he did she was a teenager. He already had missed out on too much, but perhaps he knew that if he even tried to see Lilly; Ellen might have done something. Thus why he tried to contact her with letters.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

It just dawned on me that in that last scene between Lilly and Moe; that's actually an argument between Lilly's 'adult' side (represented by Moe) and Lilly's child side (represented by Lilly herself.)

[longislanditalian2]

Would be funny if we saw Lilly actually arguing with her both six and ten year old self, that would have been awesome to see.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Hmm, that would be hilarious but also sort of impractical (imo).

And also, the Moe in Lilly's dream is her shadow archetype.

Okay, I really really want to write a plot analysis for this episode!


ETA

Anyone notice anything peculiar about this image?