lillyrush1977
Detective
[blue]1,000th Member[/blue]
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" -Eleanor Roosevelt
Posts: 411
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Post by lillyrush1977 on May 11, 2009 16:22:11 GMT -5
I think she is wet from being underneath the water
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 11, 2009 16:23:51 GMT -5
I think she is wet from being underneath the water exactly, it was just the writer's reminding us that this isn't real. |
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Post by Naj on May 11, 2009 16:27:55 GMT -5
The two flashbacks of Lilly: Stillman asking her if she'd be interested in homocide and the flashback before of Lilly joining the Philly Police force and no dad there to congratulate her. I wasn't understanding why Lilly looked like the present Lilly in her facial features and that "red lipstick" as we know they pulled off very successfully Lilly's younger days in Saving Patrick Bubley. And that hair was her current hair. I just kept thinking "why did they do this?" Just brilliant!  Ah but if she had an NDE she had access to universal knowledge.  I can't believe you didn't make that connection! ;D I know people are going to laugh at this but there is some truth to it. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 11, 2009 16:30:07 GMT -5
I noticed that they used a weave in Lilly's hair to make her hair to appear longer, I think Lilly now realizes and understands that it's alright to have someone in her life. How her father never stopped loving her.
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zoé
Desk Clerk III
Posts: 118
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Post by zoé on May 11, 2009 17:59:43 GMT -5
@zoe- "Someone to Call" was actually in S5 when Lilly had those nightmares. What Happened to Lilly is why she became a cop, as well, not just Stillman. I was just thinking of the last seconds of Stalker where she's all alone and it's an incredibly dark moment, as opposed to this hopeful ending with her dad. For the reason why she became a cop, George Marks said it was the attack but I still think Stillman played a great role in it. -EXTREMELY HUGE BLOOPER: Lilly and Scotty were walking to see Lawrence and there was a "DO NOT CROSS" sign in the door?
Extremely stupid If I remember correctly, the tape was already there in last week episode, when they searched Kate's room. -OK. They should have hired the girl from "The woods" where they simulated the attack She's 4 years older and maybe doesn't look like a kid anymore  -What a stupid murder scene I have to agree with you! At first, I told myself she was going to wake up and then there will be the real murder scene. But what's good with the whole dream scenario is that anyone can imagine another motive/scene with Ryan ;D Now, here's my BIGGEST beef with this episode. If the entire thing was a dream then certain parts shouldn't have been true. Or, look at this way. All of the investigation, everything said about Kate Butler, all of Lilly's flashbacks were all dreams. In the dream Ryan confesses to the murder and that older guy was the accomplice. In real life, they were in fact the guilty ones. So, I can believe that Lilly had a prophetic dream in that regard. Or, perhaps when she was investigating before the accident, she might have thought there was something up with Ryan and that other guy but, placed it in her subconscious mind. Which then surfaced in her dream. Like Stillman said, Lil has good instincts. See, she can solve old cases in her sleep! ;D But then we have the other stuff. The stuff about Kate Butler. To me it's as if two scenarios are possible. The first; None of what they said about Kate was the truth and, what we have is a case of Lilly's personal life being lived through Kate in the dream. The second; All of it is true and Lilly has the supernal ability of post-cognitive dreaming. Not an impossibility but, CC seems to want to stay away from anything linked to the supernal. (Let's forget that the characters see dead people in every episode practically.) For me it's your first scenario, I prefer to have a glimpse in Lilly's head than the reality. I tried to find a meaning to Kate's flashbacks hallucinated by Lilly and the pattern is that Kate is achieving stuff that Lilly couldn't. The flashback when Kate fights with Gardner: she gets revenge herself with her attacker, which Lilly couldn't. Then the one in the chapel, Kate's dad sees her when she receives a distinction, while Lilly sorely missed her dad on graduation (not sure it's called this for the police). And lastly, with Addison, Kate is invited to have fun with the guys, she succeeded in entering the Men's territory. Well, Lilly is doing good now at PPD but remember her first time at first thursdays, she obviously had it tough for a lot of years. Kate is her alter ego, and Lilly's subconscious wanted her to have succeeded. They were both hit (one with a hand weight and the other with a car) and while Kate "wouldn't wake up", Lilly did. It's sweet in the end that her real father is holding her hand, but I still feel that Lilly looks up to Stillman as the "father" figure for the majority of her life. I agree! When Cooper says "Like it or not, you only get one father", I was thinking now Lil has two... |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 11, 2009 18:13:05 GMT -5
Look closely at the last scene, I think those words went perfectly along with the ending. Cooper holding onto her hand, his face looking very loving and Lilly looking right at him. She knows that she's only got one father him..
Little Lilly at the end riding her bike, could symbolize that her past is free??
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605 
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 11, 2009 19:31:51 GMT -5
AAAAH! I can't believe I didn't even think of the Near Death Experience thing! And now that you brought it up I can add that to the list. Or perhaps consider this.
What if Lilly was astral projecting? What if maybe the episode wasn't a "dream" per se but, in fact Lilly's subtle body visiting one of the subtle planes? Actually, did you know that dreaming IS a form of astral projection?
And now all I can think of is this one scenario from SH:HC. In the story, Alex the protagonist comes across this tomb meant for a child. He opens it but instead of there being a child in there, all that's in there is a watch. When he picks it up and examines it he gets a bad headache and passes out. When he wakes up he's literally something like twenty miles from where he was, and out in the middle of the road. Then a bunch of really weird stuff happens; before Alex has to face something.
(weird stuff included - seeing a ghostly spectral of his brother; talking to the ghost of a woman that was trapped in the hotel; falling through a floor or two and surviving; etc)
Now, get this, after he's done facing this thing (truth) he starts slipping into unconsciousness and falls down into this huge hole. And wakes up in a police station.
Hmm, that sounds an awful lot like what happened with Lilly.
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Post by Naj on May 11, 2009 19:43:58 GMT -5
I absolutely believe this based from my own personal formal shamanic training. Notice the outcome of the case in comparison to Lilly's hallucinations. It's also possible she altered time to solve it and then came back and transferred it telepathically to the other detectives through her energy field.  (I can't wait to read that book you are working on, TRB!) |
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Post by lillyfan on May 11, 2009 19:48:23 GMT -5
FREAK THAT WAS GOOD!!!!!!!!!
It was so unpredictable and it kept me guessing. I was waiting the entire episode for Lilly to pass out or go crazy. I thought she was finally losing it in the end then I realized she was still in the water. I held my breath the entire time they pulled her out of the water; I was on the verge of tears because I thought she was dead. Then she came out of the water breathing, OH RELIEVED, I can breath now. When I watched it again for the second, third and fourth time I started picking up on the clues that I'd missed earlier like her being cold or the water running in the bathroom, her sweating. AWESOME ACTING KATHRYN MORRIS, keeps reminding me of why she's my favorite. She did so good throughout the entire episode especially in the end. I loved the 'What the hell is going on" I guess that was the right question.
So did Gardner actually die? Usually when someone other than the original victim dies, someone sees them in the end and we didn't see him at all. Also when Mo asked "What, now your gonna tell me that kid is really dead?" it made me think that maybe he isn't and it was just in her mind that he was killed, but I don't know, maybe the writers are leaving that up to our own imaginations.
I also never put two and two together with Stillman being her hero as a young child and I should have. It makes sense, that's why they have such a great bond.
Her father holding her hand in the end was the perfect ending, had me balling, of course. BEAUTIFUL EPISODE
Also, Pearl Jam has a new fan. I've never listened to them but I loved all the music in the past two episodes. I'm definitely looking for that CD.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 11, 2009 20:57:59 GMT -5
For the people at the chat tonight.  |
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Post by eduardodelroice on May 12, 2009 8:23:52 GMT -5
One of the main reasons why I hated this episode so much was that when Lilly was attacked, she thought Lawrence was the killer... If she were dreaming, she sould have dreamt about catching Lawrence. It was not coherent she dreamt exactly other thing and that thing was the reality
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 12, 2009 8:43:02 GMT -5
We don't exactly know that Lawerence was in fact killed, but she wasn't dreaming but halluncinating instead. In that sequence she was looking for him but he was found to be killed, but Lilly being attacked and being pushed off the side of the road into the river at two different stories, the attack happened when she was ten and her being into the river was current.
That's why there is a twist fiction from reality, basically we saw the episode as if Lilly herself was solving it. In the end the squad solved it without her. That's why I found this episode to be one the best season finales, topping "Stalker".
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Post by lillyfan on May 12, 2009 9:18:48 GMT -5
I agree, absolutely the best season finale
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Post by eduardodelroice on May 12, 2009 9:23:37 GMT -5
We don't exactly know that Lawerence was in fact killed, but she wasn't dreaming but halluncinating instead. In that sequence she was looking for him but he was found to be killed, but Lilly being attacked and being pushed off the side of the road into the river at two different stories, the attack happened when she was ten and her being into the river was current. That's why there is a twist fiction from reality, basically we saw the episode as if Lilly herself was solving it. In the end the squad solved it without her. That's why I found this episode to be one the best season finales, topping "Stalker". Attacked, I meant when she was hit by the other car |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on May 12, 2009 9:35:56 GMT -5
Her father left her mother, but he also left to get himself clean. Thus why he couldn't take Lilly with him, he didn't abadoned her. Sometimes an addiction is much more powerful than being a parent, it took over his life. Cooper had no other choice than to get clean, but I'm glad he did. The important thing was he still and does love Lilly.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on May 12, 2009 11:58:38 GMT -5
Dreams are a funny thing EDR. And there's a good reason why Lilly didn't dream about catching Lawrence. It's because her suspicion of Lawrence was in her conscious mind. You see, dreams are gateways to our unconscious minds. And that entire episode had scenes representing what Lilly had been repressing.
Also EDR, when our dreams are trying to help us we can't control them. And if Lilly did dream about catching Lawrence that would have changed the entire meaning of the episode.
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Post by eduardodelroice on May 12, 2009 12:04:25 GMT -5
OK. TRB. But anyway... Arent dreams almost always suggested by what have happened to us, by our goals, fears and that stuff?
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myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on May 12, 2009 14:15:18 GMT -5
OK. TRB. But anyway... Arent dreams almost always suggested by what have happened to us, by our goals, fears and that stuff? There are different theories about dreams, what they mean, if they mean anything. For some they are just some random and meaningless stream of pictures and sensations in our heads, in other views they are giving a clue about what is going on on subconcious level, particular giving away repressed feelings, and for some they are going beyond that and open a door to other levels of our excistence and other levels of the world. But in common understanding or believe, you're right, Eduardo, dreams are seen as something having to do with what happened to us, with goals, (secret) desires, fears, (repressed) anger and stuff. I'm not sure, what to make of this "dream" episode though. |
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Post by eduardodelroice on May 12, 2009 15:01:42 GMT -5
It's that Lilly never suspected of Ryan or at least not like Lawrence... How come she was dreaming about Ryan??? Lame
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myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on May 12, 2009 17:55:23 GMT -5
It's that Lilly never suspected of Ryan or at least not like Lawrence... How come she was dreaming about Ryan??? Lame Could say, good instincts. Ryan actually was at least on my list as quite likely doer already in the first part - though that was somewhat more, because CC often follows a certain scheme. We seldom have really cold blooded murders, mostly the killing is quite emotional, an individual more or less losing it. Ryan was the most nervous all the time, the one loosing most on a personal level from his POV, the only, who had reason to truely feel personally humilated by Kate gaining ground. As well I was thinking, that there was some cover-up going on by someone from the higher school staff - and the most likely person was Moe. You know, kinda the second in command always has to clean up the mess. He was too helpful and friendly to Lilly and Scotty in the beginning. Of course, Murillo offered full cooperation too, but he didn't hide his disdain for cops sniffing around in his school. Well, yes, it was not a surprise for me to see Ryan and Moe in the end. Doesn't mean I actually buy all this hallucinating or dream stuff or that I liked it. |
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I can't believe you didn't make that connection! ;D I know people are going to laugh at this but there is some truth to it. 
