Past Lilly vs. Current Lilly

[TVFan]

This has been touched on in several threads all over this message board, but I thought it would be better to have a central thread where those who feel Lilly is not the same as she used to be in seasons 1 & 2 could discuss those differences and the positives and negatives of the change. So, what has happened to our beloved Lil? Here's what I have noticed:

I watched this week's mini marathon on TNT (Stalker, Sherry Darlin', Hitchhiker, and Hubris) b/c it had 3 of my fave season 1 episodes. BIG mistake! Up until this point, I must have been watching Current Lilly and not putting her in the context of Past Lilly. I actually found the little trip down CC memory lane to be quite depressing. What the heck happened to our Lilly??!! She's merely a shell of her former self. It's like they sucked everything good out of her. Past Lilly had fire, passion, spunk, unparalleled interrogation skills, a sense of humor, undeniable cuteness, and an overall happy outlook. Current Lilly is still passionate about her cases, but she tends to sit back and let the others get more fired up about them. She's still a master in the interrogation room, but she doesn't command the thing like she used to. She seems more sedate than spunky and her sense of humor seems to have disappeared. She's depressed and on the edge of an emotional breakdown and all of that cuteness in her personality has been replaced with a solemn seriousness. I get that crap has happened to her and that characters grow and change, but it seems like Lilly has reverted instead of grown. One thing's for sure -- she has definitely changed and NOT necessarily for the better.

I do see shades of Past Lilly more this season than in the previous ones, but she's still a long way away from her former superior self. Something happened between S2 and S3, and I can't put my finger on what it was, but I wish it would change back. Different writing staff?? Too much personal strife?? Or just bad decisions for the direction of the character ?? I don't know. Current Lilly seems lonely and unsure of what will make her happy. Past Lilly might have been lonely, but she was OK with that and she didn't need someone in order to feel complete (which is what made her romance with Kite so fun to watch). Kite came along and forced his way into her life, but she would have been just fine if he hadn't. And she knew what made her happy - solving cold cases. Maybe that's not enough for her anymore, and that's OK and a normal part of character growth, but it seems to be defining her now and it never did before. She used to be strong and empowered, but now she seems frail and simply going through the motions. I don't like it. I hope LillyKat is right and the writers take the time off to re-evaluate what's working and what isn't because Current Lilly is not IMO. Bring back Past Lilly.

I only bring all of this up because I care about the character and the show and where it's going. As long as CC is on the air, Lilly will always be my favorite character. I just hope they bring back the missing qualities that landed her in first place on my list the day this wonderful show premiered.

[Naj]

I thought I read prior to season 5 by KM that Lilly was supposed to lighten up this season. So far I haven't seen it. ;D

Anyhow, I don't know what they've done with Lilly either. Her character has been going down the tubes since the beginning of season 3. I've finally come to the conclusion that the series will end with a worse off character than it began with. It's basically a depressing conclusion but one I feel may come to be. I personally don't approve of what they've done to her side story and her as a detective and I too am a Lilly fan and stay with the show soley for her character hoping they would fix it.

[longislanditalian2]

naj said:

I thought I read prior to season 5 by KM that Lilly was supposed to lighten up this season. So far I haven't seen it. ;D

It's not going to be seen due to the strike, hopefully when it ends we'll see a much lighter Lilly.

[littlelaura1992]

I think that Lilly is a great character. I loved her in season one and she has became different as the seasons have progressed but I think that KM has only played her as she would feel going through everything that Lilly has went through...and let's face it...that's a lot.
What I would love to see Lilly be like is the more confident character that we all saw in Season One but not to forget what she has been through. I think Lilly right now is wallowing in what's happened whereas S1 Lilly would've went through all the trauma and came out the other side, stronger. I hope that's where they are going this season

[LillyKat]

Amen, TVFan!

Brilliantly stated. Echos exactly what I have been feeling a lot of late, especially with the re-airing of "Sherry Darlin'" (and coldcasegirl's comments in the episode thread about the exact same thing). I am continuing to watch the marathons each week, and I find myself actually tuning out the newer eps and only watching the old stuff. Yikes.

As I mentioned in the "Sherry Darlin'" thread ... as more of the early stuff replays on TNT (and other channels), I just get increasingly bummed out watching where Lilly "was" as to where she is currently. As much as I believe in the growth of the character (and have defended it at times, especially given I came to the series during its third season), that growth should not come at the expense of what made the character so endearing in the first place.

Lilly's not spunky anymore. She's not funny anymore. She's not sassy anymore. She hardly seems to lead the investigations anymore. She seems depressed most of the time. And, she just goes through the motions without that fearlessness that made her much more interesting to watch.

True, she's had a lot of stuff happen to her in recent years, but it is in a lopsided quantity, and she seems to hardly have recovered from any of it and/or lost her true self in the process. It's becoming more difficult for me to stay interested in her given where she is today. And when the old eps roll, I feel like I'm mourning the death of the character. She is just so not the same nowadays (and not even remotely the same at times), and I feel it is one of the the huge missteps of the series overall, and perhaps indicative of why people aren't watching in the droves they used to.

I know KM and CC always note how the show is a hit, the viewers are loyal, it's always in the Top 20, etc. But where are those 16-17 million viewers? Aren't we down to, like, 12-13, now - just barely? Thus, can they really say it's the same kind of hit - the one that generated buzz, the one that had everyone talking? I can't remember the last time KM was on a talk show to promote CC in this country. I can't remember the last time the entertainment shows wanted to spend time doing some sort of CC exclusive (the 100th episode press not withstanding). When I wanted to catch up on the series, I saw how much press was done in those first two seasons (as archived on this board, at KMO, etc.), where KM and CC were everywhere and everyone was into Lilly and Co. Yes, that eventually fades ... but into oblivion, where you have to hunt and peck for CC news? I'm not sure that's been simply a "fade" thing. Nowadays, I really don't think it can be considered the hit it was, and I think it's just fallen into being a predictable and dependable performer for CBS. As such, less buzz, less interest. Along those lines, CC seems even more fearful of messing with anything for fear it'll change it for the worse (KM even alluded to that in her Emmy magazine interview in Sept. 2007). Problem is, it's already been changed for the worse. It isn't better than what was being done those first two seasons, when they were still trying to figure out the show. It's almost as if when they didn't know what it was, it was at its best. Isn't that ironic?

That said, I still think I'm actually one of the few who doesn't mind the third season as much. But now seeing the first and second seasons in such heavy rotation on TNT, it is abundantly clear something changed between the second and third season. All you have to do is watch the opening credits to see several (if not most) of the original producers/writers are no longer with the show. Several of the directors have changed (though some have carried over into where the series is currently). So whether it was the exodus of old and influx of new, or some other caveat we know nothing about, it feels (to me) like they thought they needed to tinker or fix something that really wasn't broken. As a result, the essence of the Lilly Rush character has been stripped down to a mere shell of its former shelf. It was slowly noticeable in the third season, and has become increasingly noticeable in the fourth and fifth season.

Also, why has the show become an ensemble? That was never its original set-up, and I find the shift odd considering it's not really bringing in a different set of ratings (or buzz for that matter). No offense to the other actors and/or characters, but the show was always supposed to be about Lilly and her passion for cold jobs, and it was Lilly who people, by in large, wanted to watch. My mom (who watched the show in its first two seasons and now no longer does) often asks me about it: "What happened to Lilly?" Believe me mom, if I knew, I'd tell you. I've also read a couple of blurbs in various entertainment blogs talking not only about Lilly's absurd pale make-up job (another rant for another day), but how the show needs to get back to having KM/Lilly at center. Now, if non-devoted-fan folks are noticing this, doesn't that suggest something has gone wrong? It does to me.

As such, this whole "matruing" process KM has mentioned has been, I feel, at the expense of the Lilly that got us all interested in the first place. Lilly in a daze, almost dull and boring at times, and in the backseat of the car she is supposed to be driving is no longer interesting. And, as much as I never wanted to make the Gillian Anderson/Scully/X-Files-what-the-heck-happened-to-her-in-the-last-season comparison ... well, I feel as if Lilly is headed down that path ... especially with the older eps now airing so frequently and serving as a constant reminder of what she used to be.

And let's just say that I've watched The Closer for three years, and at no point have I felt like I'm not watching the same show and/or that the lead character has become something other than what she was - something worse, something less herself, something less interesting. If anything, that show has only gotten stronger as its gotten older. CC would do well to look to it as an example of how to mature a character without sacrificing its essence.

O, Lilly, Lilly ... Wherefore Art Thou, Lilly of yesteryear?

[Naj]

I feel like I'm mourning the death of the character. She is just so not the same nowadays (and not even remotely the same at times), and I feel it is one of the the huge missteps of the series overall, and perhaps indicative of why people aren't watching in the droves they used to.

official mourner here mourning and still here.

But where are those 16-17 million viewers? Aren't we down to, like, 12-13, now - just barely? Thus, can they really say it's the same kind of hit - the one that generated buzz, the one that had everyone talking? I can't remember the last time KM was on a talk show to promote CC in this country. I can't remember the last time the entertainment shows wanted to spend time doing some sort of CC exclusive (the 100th episode press not withstanding).

Season two was the last circut I think. check our KM media threads. Excuses given - travel time?

The 16-17 even 19 million plus were watching in the 8'o clock slot. "A Perfect Day" was the last big hit early in S3 as we watched her roll down hill from there. ARGH! Season 3 didn't exactly get out of the gate appropriately. Instead of capitalizing on two great eps of S2 with Lilly/George and the numerous great episodes like Daniela, The Sleepover, It's Raining Men, Mind Hunters, Wishing, Ravaged, Strange Fruit, Best Friends, The Woods -- they chose to ignore and give us loyal watchers 'another' detective'. Something we weren't even interested in. <shrug> They shot their feet off with that decision.

Problem is, it's already been changed for the worse. It isn't better than what was being done those first two seasons, when they were still trying to figure out the show. It's almost as if when they didn't know what it was, it was at its best. Isn't that ironic?

What I really think is that this series had a big disconnect with the impression of where it was going with it's initial audience. The audience was looking for even more Lilly in season one (me being one of them) while it appears 'their' idea was to branch out to the other detectives as a bonafide plan. I remember inquiring this to InsideR if you look back on probably the archived threads. There was some mention *somewhere* that that plan for how the show was going in season three was the way Meredith intended. (I don't remember where this is posted so if anyone remembers please point it out.) Obviously I've never agreed with where they went. I always likened the show to it's predessor spot Touched By An Angel. I happened to catch a few minutes of an ep last week. Now I can see why I like Monica so much the way those eps were written even though you knew they were going to say: "I'm an angel sent by God...." Same thing with Cold Case. They solve the case and have a closing montage, a song and show Lilly......well at least that's how I envisioned it. And how many years was TBAA on? Nine?

As such, this whole "matruing" process KM has mentioned has been, I feel, at the expense of the Lilly that got us all interested in the first place. Lilly in a daze, almost dull and boring at times, and in the backseat of the car she is supposed to be driving is no longer interesting. And, as much as I never wanted to make the Gillian Anderson/Scully/X-Files-what-the-heck-happened-to-her-in-the-last-season comparison ... well, I feel as if Lilly is headed down that path ... especially with the older eps now airing so frequently and serving as a constant reminder of what she used to be.

Not only that but the makeup department has turned this beautiful person as KM and as Lilly into a bonafide Michael Jackson freak. I'm not apologizing for my statement. It totally detracts from the episodes and I'm really tired of it. The make up department can clearly see what they have done and someone told them to do it.

And let's just say that I've watched The Closer for three years, and at no point have I felt like I'm not watching the same show and/or that the lead character has become something other than what she was - something worse, something less herself, something less interesting. If anything, that show has only gotten stronger as its gotten older. CC would do well to look to it as an example of how to mature a character without sacrificing its essence

I don't get The Closer but when I saw some outtakes of the show, it's clear those writers took the premise of season one Lilly Cold Case and ran with it.

[TVFan]

What I would love to see Lilly be like is the more confident character that we all saw in Season One but not to forget what she has been through. I think Lilly right now is wallowing in what's happened whereas S1 Lilly would've went through all the trauma and came out the other side, stronger. I hope that's where they are going this season

This is so spot-on, littlelaura1992! You really summed up my overall complaint. I just feel like Lilly isn't dealing with things the way she used to, and that's frustrating. As James said in "Sherry Darlin'," "I wasn't getting over things the way you're suppose to." This is Lilly's current problem. Past Lilly would have come out stronger, but Current Lilly seems to be weaker. I don't get that. Why take a strong, confident leading female character and turn her into a weak, depressed shell of a person?? Aren't we lacking the former in the entertainment business?? Lilly was a breath of fresh air, and now she seems a little like the mindless drones that tend to dominate the airwaves. It's such a shame. I did see some serious potential this season, but it was cut short.

Also, I'd like to clarify that this is in NO WAY a criticism toward Kathryn. She's working with what they're giving her, and she has made no bones about the fact that she isn't exactly thrilled with the direction of the character and the lack of input/collaborative efforts. From what I've read, she's on the same page as us - the fans.

LillyKat - Excellent points! I found myself nodding in agreement throughout your post.

[coldboneslove398]

Maybe the writers had too much fun writing in a "relationship" for Lilly that they forgot she's suppose to be this strong spunky woman with quick quips? Another similarity between "Cold Case" and "Veronica Mars". I think this is ultimately what led to the demise of "Veronica Mars" because the network wanted more younger viewers to watch the show that in turn the veteran viewers(older demographics) stopped watching because of crappy writing, isn't this what "Cold Case" is trying to accomplish too?

The equation to get us "younger" viewers to watch the shows in the networks' opinions:

Hot guys + Hopeless romantic + Shipping = Younger viewers

I suppose the networks know what we want better than ourselves. It's best to take advantage of our brains and brainwash us with other crap loaded on crappy hyped up shows. Seeing how my generation of youth have crappy taste(IE: Rap, Grey's Anatomy, reality shows,etc). My friends, English is in the "Dark Ages". No one appreciates witty writing anymore.

Hehe, just noticed my siggy is contradicting my views, but a hot actor on a t.v. show isn't the only reason that would get me to watch a show. It needs more than sexy and hot for me to stick around, a show needs to be intellectual or witty through writing. My friends, that is what makes for great television. The use of allusions to present-day, political/religious views you can see from the writer through the dialogue of a character(the 4400 does an amazing job with this), and most of all...to be able to create a multi-layered unique character different from other shows.

[LillyKat]

naj said:

I always likened the show to it's predessor spot Touched By An Angel

Ah, yes! Another TBAA fan here, too, Naj. I miss that show.

What I really think is that this series had a big disconnect with the impression of where it was going with it's initial audience. The audience was looking for even more Lilly in season one (me being one of them) while it appears 'their' idea was to branch out to the other detectives as a bonafide plan. I remember inquiring this to InsideR if you look back on probably the archived threads. There was some mention *somewhere* that that plan for how the show was going in season three was the way Meredith intended. (I don't remember where this is posted so if anyone remembers please point it out.) Obviously I've never agreed with where they went.

I want to say I vaguely remember reading something to this effect in the Spoilers forum, but I read it long after the third season was underway, so I think I didn't pay too much attention to it since I was a "new" viewer.

That said, if Meredith Stiehm did really intend to shift the show to an emphasis on something other than Lilly (and thus Season 3 really was her vision) … well, then the audience the show was built on (like you, my mom, my co-worker) got seriously duped. I question how the big executives like Littman, Bruckheimer, Moonves, etc., ever thought that was the right call. Not to sound flippant, but were they high on the success of the first two seasons, and thus, thought Meredith could do no wrong? I wonder because it seems to have been a huge mistake given the show seems less popular, not more. You don't create a brilliant, original premise for a show, complete with a focus on a one-of-a-kind, strong, powerful, wickedly clever and endearing female lead character unlike anything else on the tube at the moment, which rakes you in a whole bunch of buzz, ratings and fans, then ditch it for an ensemble feel? For other supporting characters? For just the cases? For younger viewers (who may or may not materialize)?

No wonder most of the first and second season people left. And it honestly makes me wonder what in the flipping heck networks think sometimes.

And yet, I can believe Meredith perhaps did intend to change it all deliberately given it would support more of her own comments about never really knowing when something is going to be successful and/or something is a hit (hence why NO ONE thought to negotiate rights for the music for DVD distribution from the outset). When I was catching up on the series, I came across interviews whereby she would refer to her time writing for other dramas (NYPD Blue, etc.), honing her skill, discovering her strength at writing procedurals. Yet, she admitted she never knew for sure what was going to work. She herself was a terrible judge at figuring out a “hit.” That perhaps now seems blatantly obvious if she did indeed feel the need to shift the focus off of where it was with the first two seasons. I do remember InsideR specifically saying that shows often times don't know a good thing when they have it, and thus, they try and tinker with it too much only to have it end up being worse off than where it started (the whole “fix” something that isn't broken thing).

And when Meredith sort of "left" in the fourth season, it fell to Veena to try and clean up the mess ... but perhaps the damage was already done … and the road back is proving to be a long one.

Not only that but the makeup department has turned this beautiful person as KM and as Lilly into a bonafide Michael Jackson freak. I'm not apologizing for my statement. It totally detracts from the episodes and I'm really tired of it. The make up department can clearly see what they have done and someone told them to do it.

Agreed. The ghastly appearance of Lilly as the series has progressed continues to astonish me (hence the "Lilly can't get any paler jokes"). Again, watching the older eps ... she looked so healthy, so vibrant, so natural. What the heck happened? It went way beyond the sickly-recover-from-George thing.

And I should state this is not a slam on Kathryn. She is the victim, here. I've had the very good fortune to meet KM, see her up close and personal, talk with her, etc. She is absolutely stunning in person, yet they are doing no justice to her natural beauty by this morgue-esque make-up job. Alas, the hair and make-up people from the first two seasons are gone, and those they've got now ... well, I don't know what they see ... or how they can justify her look today. It did seem to be improving in the fifth season (a return to the hair up mode, etc.). But it's still not what it was.

tvfan said:

Also, I'd like to clarify that this is in NO WAY a criticism toward Kathryn. She's working with what they're giving her, and she has made no bones about the fact that she isn't exactly thrilled with the direction of the character and the lack of input/collaborative efforts. From what I've read, she's on the same page as us - the fans.

Agreed TVFan. None of this is a criticism of Kathryn. As we know, she has been the only one to actually speak out to say that the show is not firing on all its cylinders at the moment, and that it has gotten away from some of its most endearing qualities of which she’d like to see it return to.

I actually find it ironic she is the only one to have spoken out. Does no one else think there is a problem? Does no one else care? Are they all just complacent whilst Kathryn is still trying to strive to make it stronger and better? If so, I think that's a potentially damaging mentality to the show overall - that is, the fact no one else seems to be noticing stuff has changed for the worse, especially when fans are wondering what’s gone wrong, media comments suggest confusion as to what has happened with the show, and other people who were familiar with the show at its outset and are now wondering why it seems so off these days have piped up to say, "Uh, excuse me, CC ... have you noticed that ..."

What also surprises me is why no one at the highest creative levels – like Littman or Bruckheimer – seem to notice the shift. We know that Jerry Bruckheimer signs off on everything … can he really say that he’s got the same product he had those first two seasons?

This all either suggests a) Kathryn is crazy; or b) the entire CC creative executive team is in denial.

I would say it is the latter. And I say that not to be overly harsh (because I have great respect for the blood, sweat and tears that goes into creating a television show). I say it to reiterate InsideR's point about not knowing what they have and/or what they have done.

And yet, if the gauge for success is the fact the show remains in the Top 20, then perhaps because it still is there, the CC team thinks there is no issue. And given they ask for no collaborative input from their lead (who, as I understand it, seemed to be far more involved at the beginning of the series in developing Lilly – which, as I also understood, was part of Kathryn’s deal when she signed on … that she would have the opportunity to be involved in the development of the character), perhaps it’s further evidence they don’t think anything is wrong and/or do not need help.

However, I wonder if they continue to operate in this kind of creative vacuum, they’ll essentially set themselves up for their own downfall. It’s this kind of thinking that get shows to the Jump The Shark phase. That is, shows stay on the air far longer than they should given those in charge cannot see (or refuse to see) the creative stagnancy, the bad creative decision making, or don’t recognize when the show has gone wrong and needs a shot in the arm. As such, it always seems the Jump the Shark shows go out with a fizz and a wimper, not with a bang and/or on top because at that point, the shows are well past their prime, and folks have lost interest - something KM has already astutely talked about in voicing concerns with where the show is currently.

We then really do have an X-Files-go-out-with-a-fizz scenario.

I really don’t want that to happen to CC. There are very talented folks on the creative staff, not to mention in front of the camera. But there is a saying: Sometimes, you can’t see the forest through the trees. That is, you are too close to something to see the obvious standing in front of you.

IMHO, I think, creatively, CC needs to step back and re-eavaluate – irregardless of the Top 20 argument. Maybe they were starting to do so with Season 5. We’ll never know that, now. But ironically, the writer’s strike offers a break – albeit a forced one, and not one that anyone really wanted – that may perhaps give the show some much needed perspective for when it comes back for its “next” season (whenever that will be).

[TVFan]

coldboneslove459 said:

Maybe the writers had too much fun writing in a "relationship" for Lilly that they forgot she's suppose to be this strong spunky woman with quick quips?

Except, some of the best Lilly scenes were when she was with Kite (IMO). It showed off her spunk and strength while also revealing a more vulnerable, human side. This was why I enjoyed this relationship so much. Now, she seems to lose herself in relationships, which is not the Lilly we used to know.

LillyKat - I think you're very right about the "forest through the trees" problem where the forest is the creative issues and the trees are the continuous Top 20 finishes. As long as the show delivers, I don't see them changing anything no matter who constructively criticizes it (fans, series leads, etc). I still think, for what it's worth, the change in the show's direction (and the character of Lilly) is due to network intervention (the main reason why Veronica Mars lost its creative edge later on) and a change in the behind-the-scenes staff at CC. Different people = different direction.

[littlelaura1992]

tvfan said:

Also, I'd like to clarify that this is in NO WAY a criticism toward Kathryn. She's working with what they're giving her, and she has made no bones about the fact that she isn't exactly thrilled with the direction of the character and the lack of input/collaborative efforts. From what I've read, she's on the same page as us - the fans.

Only after I read my post did I realise how presumtious (don't actually know if that's the right word) I sounded.
I would never critisize Kathryn. ;D She's much too good an actress for me to do that

[longislanditalian2]

Me either, she is a too good of an actress!!

[LillyKat]

tvfan said:

Except, some of the best Lilly scenes were when she was with Kite (IMO). It showed off her spunk and strength while also revealing a more vulnerable, human side. This was why I enjoyed this relationship so much. Now, she seems to lose herself in relationships, which is not the Lilly we used to know.

I second that. I actually have come to like Kite much more in hindsight than when I first watched Season 1, especially given we now rarely see that happier and/or funnier side of Lilly. "Hubris" was on the other week ... the first kiss ... remember that? Wow ... classic stuff - for both characters, I think.

Kite brought out some great things in Lilly ... IMHO, both Joseph (who I liked initially, but was ditched abruptly before anything could even seriously begin to be established) and Ray (who I still absolutely cannot stand and still have not figured out what the heck he was really supposed to be about) did not, for me, come close to what Kite was able to bring to Lilly's life - something happy, good, solid, regular and very human. He challenged her; made her feel different; treated her well; got her to look at herself differently. I found her far more relatable then than the depressed mess she is now. Not to mention there was fabulous chemistry between Kathryn Morris and Josh Hopkins. I really never bought Brennan Elliot's routine, and the more I've watched Kenneth Johnson, I have to say he has an awkward presence. He's too shifty on screen. It's like he never stands still or something. LOL! Then again, I watched one too many Saving Grace episodes with him as Holly Hunter's love slave, and alas, I think I'm rather turned off by him, now - though not his fault; the nature of that show is ... well, not my cup of tea.

That said, I still liked him over Ray, but in hindsight, I now find myself in the Kite camp. I now wish Kite could've continued on as a recurring character. I like to think that since we never did get resolution to that drunk phone call in "Beautiful Little Fool," maybe he could return. But alas, that question has been prepetually asked since he left, so I won't hold my breath. LOL!

[00bomber]

I actually can't see them changing anything til the ratings go down which will force them to take a good hard look at themselves. I agree with comments already made that while they're still making the top 20 they wont realise that there is a problem.

Personally I really couldn't stand season 3 and after the season final (worst thing I've ever watched), I actually decided the show had turned to rubbish and was going to stop watching. Then I thought better of it and gave it another chance with the first episode of season 4. I didn't like Joseph or how all of that went but the case was good so I thought I'd keep watching.

I think a lot of us have dropped our standards after what happened in season 3 with Lilly and the whole show in general. Which means that an episode that may not have been good if it were in seasons 1 or 2, is seen as good now because its a good episode compared to some of the rubbish that they have served up in recent times.

(sorry if that last bit makes no sense I can't get my head around the english language today)

[TVFan]

If I remember correctly, InsideR reported that the romance between Lilly and Kite was dropped because Josh Hopkins left for some promising opportunities (and more steady, weekly work). Can't say I blame him. If that hadn't been the case, I would imagine that the plan would have been to continue with that relationship. Perhaps, this expains its sorta abrupt end. The drunk dial was originally intended for Ray, but got rewritten at the last moment when fan reaction to that character didn't go as planned according to TV.com. Again, this may explain why they sorta threw that out there without following up. Just like the end of the relationship, it wasn't the original plan (according to reports).

Lilly's relationship with Kite has always been my favorite. The Ray thing was underdeveloped, and thus, left most viewers confused and unsure of what side of Lil's character was attracted to this bad boy (they tried to rectify it with the milkshake story - which I was a sucker for - but I do think it may have been a case of too little, too late). Joseph started off well and he seemed to bring out that same playful, spunky side of Lil that we hadn't seen since the Kite days, but as LillyKat pointed out, that relationship came to an abrupt halt. Initial reports had both actors signed on for more episodes than they actually appeared in last season, so perhaps, more was supposed to be done with both and they ran out of time (a common problem with network shows). If so, this would be another case of things not ending in line with the original plan.

Bottom line, it's difficult to squeeze 10 lbs of potatoes in an 8-lb sack and with the time contraints of a single episode, lightening quick shooting schedules and turn around time on production of episodes, network interference, and a focus on crime stories over personal ones, something has to give. More times than not, that something is going to be the personal stuff. Thus, we have bits and pieces of Lil's history and personality, but they all feel a little underdeveloped and slightly thrown together with 4-5 episodes in between each piece of the puzzle. Of course, all of this does NOT explain why Lil has changed so much over the course of the last couple of seasons. That remains a cold case that I'm not even sure Lil and co. can solve.

[riche]

I do wonder if the whole "Lilly (not) coping with the shooting" stuff was largely dropped because they knew they were unlikely to be able to complete the season due to the writers strike.

[Gina]

When I first started watching CC, it was at the beginning of S5. (I know, I know...) I was like: "This girl is depressed! She needs to be on suicide watch!" Maybe...Lily needs to adopt a 13 year old female that is a huge fan of CC, and that has very vivid, dark, Italian, brunette hair, and that has Sweedish skin(that easily tans) and that has the account name lolgirlyy on a board called Look Again...................lol, jk, it's just that I love acting AND CC, and that would be a dream role for me...aah...fantasies...

[michelle]

It seemed to be that Lilly changed (for the worse) around the time Meredith S. stopped producing. And didn't Veena do less writing and step more into production then? I don't keep up with the ratings, but I would think the show has surely dropped since seasons 1 and 2. Or, maybe the producers wanted to make it more of a plot/case driven show, rather than character driven, so they watered Lilly down to be only a person who solved the cases, instead of a strong main character who had cases to solve (I hope I made the distinction clear).

Rumor has it. . and I can't verify this. . . but I've heard the Tracie Thoms is being positioned to take over as main character. Frankly, I don't see it happening, but I don't watch the show as regularly as I used to, so I can't say. This information came from a huge Tracie Thoms fan, so she may be more informed about the plans for Tracie's career than I. Or, could be wishful thinking on her part.

IMO, not a good idea for the show. But unless the old Lilly makes a reappearance, and soon, I don't suspect that the show will continue to get the ratings and recognition (from fans anyway) that it did in the past.

[longislanditalian2]

I can't see tracie being taken over like that, I doubt that will happen. I don't think Kathryn would allow that to happen anyway, Iwould quit watching it if she ever left.

[Gina]

NO Tracie Thoms(a.k.a.-Kat Miller) is NOT going to take over KM's position as lead role!!1! I won't allow it!!!!!!!