Ep. 4.09 Lonely Hearts

[longislanditalian2]

I think this was a total Lilly-centric episode. It really revolved around her inner most feelings , at the end where she is walking her scarf is hanging loose not uptight around her neck maybe this is symbolic to her feelings up being bottling her feelings up tight and down meaning that she feels happiness.


I think the bubble flying past her represented a spritual awakening for Lilly.Does anyone think that??

Needless to say that Kathryn did such a great job protraying Lilly's inner emotions. She has that special talent of conveying her characters true feelings to be displayed on her face without any words.

[Lee]

Irishkale --

That's hilarious.

I think the set designers may have been just a little too creative on this one.

That's priceless.

[boxman]

longislanditalian2 said:

Is it all a possiblity that Martha was trying to prevent Lilly from making the same mistake and landing up with a guy like Ramon?

Perhaps you missed the essence of my post about Martha and Ramon?? I think McRay *was* "Lilly's Ramon". Both men are small, petty criminals. Neither really would commit a major crime on their own. But when Ramon paired up with Martha, things escalated to murder. McRay himself might've stolen shoes (as mentioned in "The House"), or forged some motorcycle documents. But pair him with Lilly, and he was literally asking a policewoman to break the law for him--a much bigger escalation of crime. Before knowing Martha's story, Lilly (in "Saving Sammy") had already decided not go go down that road, no matter how much she may have loved Ray.

I think the bubble flying past her represented a spritual awakening for Lilly.Does anyone think that??

It's possible. I wouldn't be surprised if floating bubbles are meant to represent the lifting of spirits like you say.

swoznick said:

... let's go one step further - and you're gonna have fun with this one...

A hammerhead shark's head. It's the right shape and conture with the ridge on the midline.. Usually depicted in dull silver or pewter. The heavy, thickness of it would be correct as well. A masculine necklace on a large cord, rather than a petite pendant on a chain....

So - I have to beg this one question as a possiblity. I read the spoiler thread where InsideR said that they often have several episodes filming at one time. Could it be that they were filming like that - and the stylist had several outfits to depict several different days and scenarios - where mix and match clothing could be used - and as a cooincidence the same necklace was worn during the course of the shooting? Do we think the appearance of the necklace is purposeful as a symbol?

I'm wondering the significance of the black jacket and now the necklace - but I also have to give a nod to current fashion trends. I'm still stuck in the possibility that Kat had to update her wardrobe to be on the homicide team - with limited funds, she would be making careful purchases as she went along - but they would have to be versitile and interchangeable so that several outfits could come from a few pieces of clothing... Food for thought..

Try a search for images, and compare the results for "hammerhead pendant" versus "hammer pendant". The results for "hammer pendant" (or more specifically, "thor's pendant") look a whole lot more like the pendant Kat is wearing. It would be interesting if the pendant was an abstract representation of a hammerhead shark, though. This ties-in with water, so it's a kind of hint that we shouldn't get too comfortable with Kat's character because *water* represents change in this series. But then again, Thor is the god of thunder (and Odin's son) in Norse mythology. There's also a tie-in to a water reference there too.. We should remember that in "Dog Day Afternoons", there was a short conversation between Kat and Jeffries about her smoking, and how she got started because of a shooting incident while she was in the narcotics division. I'm sure this will come up again later, so the strange symbolisms surronding Kat must be a hint that we need to keep on our toes with her... What is unusual to me is that the series tend to refer to Greek culture a lot, so the introduction of Norse mythology is unusual if the pendant was indeed Thor's (or Odin's) Hammer.

ETA: Stillman often wears a pin on his lapel, though I haven't noticed much significance to whatever pin he is wearing and it's association with an episode's storyline. He usually switches them from episode-to-episode. Kat's pendant, in contrast, is rather consistent in that she doesn't wear a variety--just the one we're talking about. To me, this pattern of consistency indicates furthur analysis may be warranted with Kat's jewelry, versus Stillman's.... Also, her dark skin and preference for dark clothing makes the silver pendant jump right out at us. It's almost screaming for analysis!

[longislanditalian2]

Boxman- I did notice that expecially about the part when Scotty askes how did the girls empty their bank accounts themselves? Then the camera pans over to Lilly who takes in a deep breath, Maybe Ray has done this type of thing before??


Talk about Zebra striped alluding to jail, When Lilly is talking it looks like she is behind bars in a one scene could this be an example of foreshadowing for both her and Scotty??

[boxman]

longislanditalian2 said:

Boxman- I did notice that expecially about the part when Scotty askes how did the girls empty their bank accounts themselves? Then the camera pans over to Lilly who takes in a deep breath, Maybe Ray has done this type of thing before??

Talk about Zebra striped alluding to jail, When Lilly is talking it looks like she is behind bars in a one scene could this be an example of foreshadowing??

There does seem to be a lot more to Ray than what we've seen so far.

Which scene/episode are you talking about with Lilly??

[longislanditalian2]

When Lilly's opening up martha's diary and the camera pans to the back so it looks like she is behind bars??

The other scene is before they discover that there was a women that Ramon didn't kill: Eugina.


Maybe it had just hit Lilly that maybe Ray isn't a law abiding citizen and will do anything to break the law. That's why she didn't help him out in " Sandhogs" Maybe Ramon reminded her of him in that way..

[boxman]

longislanditalian2 said:

When Lilly's opening up martha's diary and the camera pans to the back so it looks like she is behind bars??

The other scene is before they discover that there was a women that Ramon didn't kill: Eugina.

Maybe it had just hit Lilly that maybe Ray isn't a law abiding citizen and will do anything to break the law. That's why she didn't help him out in " Sandhogs" Maybe Ramon reminded her of him in that way..

Maybe Lilly's heading to jail too, huh??

[longislanditalian2]

I hope not , anyways Lilly's a good girl.. Maybe's it's alluding to someone in that room other then her....

Something still bugs me when Lilly says " if you like Zebra stripes" is this alluding to the fact that she knows about what he's done

[longislanditalian2]

I think I've found an easter egg, martha's diary that Lilly was reading was acutally the script for that perticular scene, sorry if I posted this here

[shiloh]

boxman said:

Don't forget in "Ravaged" it's kinda hinted that Vera may have married his "second choice", rather than the high school sweetheart he seemed to really want. And to make it a bit worse, we find in season three that Nick and Julie have fertility problems that seem to have caused other problems as well. Definitely, Nick has a jerk-off side to him that picks on little kids and is infidel to his wife, yet he also seems to understand that marriage is important to women. He, after all, didn't get to marry the woman of his dreams, and his hopes of having kids someday were lost with the woman he did end up marrying. I think those reasons suit well to why Vera saw the bride at the end.

I think I must've missed that bit about Nick marrying his second choice.
Thanks so much Boxman.
That explains a lot more now.

I thought too, that he saw the bride because he was reading the novel & understood her dreams etc.

This episode screened here last night.
As I said in another thread, it made me a little sad.
But ... as usual, the Nick Vera stuff made me smile.

[boxman]

Hmm... I kinda knew I'd like this episode even more the second time around. Knowing what to expect with Martha and Ramon, I found myself paying more attention to Eugenia this time. Her loneliness-driven decent was a rather sad story to watch as it was unfolded in the final flashback scene. Martha's strange personality diverted my attention away from Eugenia the first time; but tonight, I'm almost awkwardly sympathetic to how she came to murder Martha. (Was it R2K who said some of the best episodes are the ones that you find yourself empathizing with the killer??) Mary-Pat Green did an excellent performance I didn't really notice the first time. I also see that Eugenia's moral descent was accented by some downward-facing camera shots after she shoots Martha. Very cool.

Tonight I listened to the show through my stereo. The music is rather nice during the scene when Martha reads the inscriptions on the watch, and the final scene when Eugenia and Martha meet in the alley...

[Naj]

I rewatched this and thought how the case made the detectives think of romance was comical. I still can't get a Scotty/Vera hookup out of my mind.

[longislanditalian2]

My mom saw this and ask me " Why is Lilly's face so white she looks like a porclein doll"? She says there is something off about the makeup but liked the episode. I still think the scene with Vera and Scotty at the chapel is Hysterical!

[eurache]

RE-AIRING ON TNT - 8/6/08 - 10PM ET

[stillmanfan]

I didn't care for the episode but the small scenes did save it from me putting a 'I hated it'.

Vera kicking that basketball... I have to admit, I wouldn't have blamed him either for doing that, loved the scene with Kat, Lilly and John. John ran out of there..

I really liked the scene with Nick and Scotty at the chapel and scene with Lilly and Will.

[Deleted]

I loved this episode. It made me cry. Martha Puck was one of the sweetest women ever but she did everything for love, everything for the man of her dreams. It was actually really sad to watch her change into someone that wasn't her anymore, just because Ramon asked her to do all these things. In the end, they were a team and I believe that Ramon really loved her. This story was very actual as well, think about the countless girls that get caught in the net of loverboys nowadays. Some of you said the episode wasn't as realistic as others but then again, it is based on a true story so...