Episode 1.16: Volunteers

[TVFan]

lillykat said:

For me, it doesn't fit the bill due to my own perceptions of her character. IMHO, she was essentially an adult at 10-years-old - father out of the picture, on welfare, had to take care of her less-than-stellar mother as well as her sister. How does someone steeped that deeply in reality at that young of age allow herself to get even deeper into a dark reality of unwanted pregnancy and/or abortion? Yes, accidents happen. Yes, people make poor choices (which Lilly has). However, she would, IMO, be way too street-smart to be quite so careless with her life and/or anyone else's life. I am highly doubtful, given her harsh childhood reality, that she would ever have a) put herself in physical danger; b) put anyone else in danger - unborn child or otherwise. She is/was an island unto herself. IMHO, she was simply trying to survive - and escape - her upbringing. Getting pregnant / having an abortion would have seriously complicated any chance of that, and I think Lilly would not have done that willingly to herself. Chalk it up to her own selfishness, her own reserve, her own determination to NOT end up husband-less with two kids on welfare (a lá mom).

This is exactly how I see it as well. I think Lilly's most careless decision was running off with Ray and almost getting married. And look what happened there, she ended up backing out when she came to her senses and realized what a "reckless" decision she was making. Lilly plays it safe, but I think that has more to do with her mother's poor choices and the bad relationships that have happened to her. The people around her seem to let her down, and that's why she grapples with the issues that affect her personal life IMO.

[mikencelia]

I doubt that the hint of Lilly ever having had an abortion would have been that psychological. The vast, vast majority of viewers would never get it. If they wanted to hint that Lilly had an abortion they would have had to make it a much more obvious slip of the lip or something like Lilly looking back at a doctor's report she kept or something like that. BOXMAN, you might have a high sense of symbolism, but the average viewer barely gets the meaning of the actual script, let alone psychological hints.

[longislanditalian2]

As I said before, With Lilly you never know. Maybe she did or she didn't , Lilly wouldn't discuss these matters with anyone.

[michelle]

I don't know about all the symbolism indicating that Lilly has had an abortion, but (and you can refer back to my opinions in the LIlly Rush thread about if she was ever pregnant), Lilly is so clearly a tormented character that I think to rule out rape, pregnancy, and abortion (just to name a few issues) in her background, would be unrealistic. Clearly, she had a difficult, bordering on impossible, childhood.

I also refer back often to Kathryn's comments in some interview or another that the writers gave her some details of Lilly's history to enrich the character and that she, in her mind, added some details that no one will ever know.

Perhaps it's my own life experience influencing me, but I don't imagine these details as being anything less than tragic.

[coldcasegirl]

Yeah I don't think Lilly had an abortion, I just think she held it close because she cares about people and was really sad how those two died.

My fave part of this ep. has to be when Elisa introduces herself to Lilly, and tells her that she is beautiful, and then Lilly kind of blushes...funny ;D, and then when Lilly is questioning Scotty about Elisa, he was like 'she shouldn't have said that', and then Lilly was like "Well I don't mind getting called beautiful" ...it seemed Scotty was disagreeing with Elisa's comment....hmm, I bet Lilly was thinking "What you don't think I'm beautiful" when Scotty was saying that...it seemed a little rude, at least that's what I thought!
But overall I liked this episode

[tiger_lilly]

coldcasegirl said:

...it seemed Scotty was disagreeing with Elisa's comment....hmm, I bet Lilly was thinking "What you don't think I'm beautiful" when Scotty was saying that...it seemed a little rude, at least that's what I thought!

I think he was just trying to smoothe it out because he didn't want Lilly to feel uncomfortable, which she didn't (imo) but HE did .

[longislanditalian2]

Maybe b/c Scotty thought the same thing as Elissa, and was too macho to say anything.

[boxman]

mikencelia said:

...If they wanted to hint that Lilly had an abortion they would have had to make it a much more obvious slip of the lip or something like Lilly looking back at a doctor's report she kept or something like that.....

Hmmm..... Wasn't the closing montage featuring The Youngblood's "Get Together" an obvious hint that Lilly has very strong emotions towards abortion?? Yes, it's not a flat-out statement that Lilly had an abortion, but don't you think it clearly showed that this subject is a bit more important to Lilly than the other detectives who were working the case? The closing montage starts with Adam's arrest, where it's Lilly who "sees" Julia and Gerard's "ghosts". Jeffries, Stillman, and Vera took a look at Adam's black-and-white photos, but none of them grabbed one to keep. Then, throughout the closing montage, the photos are dispersed to women who were very closely connected with Julia and Gerard. In the very final scene of this episode, Scotty is about to put the case box on the shelf. Lilly stops him and grabs a picture of Julia and Gerard from the box. She holds the photo dearly against her chest, then preciously at the tip of her nose as she walks away in an obvious indication that she will keep this one photo for herself. While it's a photo and not a doctor's report, why would it be important to Lilly to keep a piece of evidence from a case that's closed? None of the other detectives did. Why would the people who put this show together leave the audience with this particular imagery of Lilly at the very end of the episode to think about and discuss??

tvfan said:

lillykat said:

For me, it doesn't fit the bill due to my own perceptions of her character. IMHO, she was essentially an adult at 10-years-old - father out of the picture, on welfare, had to take care of her less-than-stellar mother as well as her sister. How does someone steeped that deeply in reality at that young of age allow herself to get even deeper into a dark reality of unwanted pregnancy and/or abortion? Yes, accidents happen. Yes, people make poor choices (which Lilly has). However, she would, IMO, be way too street-smart to be quite so careless with her life and/or anyone else's life. I am highly doubtful, given her harsh childhood reality, that she would ever have a) put herself in physical danger; b) put anyone else in danger - unborn child or otherwise. She is/was an island unto herself. IMHO, she was simply trying to survive - and escape - her upbringing. Getting pregnant / having an abortion would have seriously complicated any chance of that, and I think Lilly would not have done that willingly to herself. Chalk it up to her own selfishness, her own reserve, her own determination to NOT end up husband-less with two kids on welfare (a lá mom).

This is exactly how I see it as well. I think Lilly's most careless decision was running off with Ray and almost getting married. And look what happened there, she ended up backing out when she came to her senses and realized what a "reckless" decision she was making. Lilly plays it safe, but I think that has more to do with her mother's poor choices and the bad relationships that have happened to her. The people around her seem to let her down, and that's why she grapples with the issues that affect her personal life IMO.

Ahh... The two of you and I are talking apples and oranges here, LillyKat and TVFan. You both are analysing Lilly's character to see if she has the capability to do something, whereas I'm analysing the symbolisms in this show to speculate if they're foreshadowing something to be revealed in future episodes. I'll be the first to say that what I'm doing is akin to reading tea leaves; and at the same time, you both can't deny that the people who put this show together do communicate and foreshadow the show's stories through non-verbal means too. That's all I'm concerned about--the symbolisms. And with this episode, how those symbolisms may or may not foreshadow the storyline behind Lilly's past. Lilly's inner character isn't important to me in this discussion.... (I'll explain below.)

michelle said:

I don't know about all the symbolism indicating that Lilly has had an abortion, but (and you can refer back to my opinions in the LIlly Rush thread about if she was ever pregnant), Lilly is so clearly a tormented character that I think to rule out rape, pregnancy, and abortion (just to name a few issues) in her background, would be unrealistic. Clearly, she had a difficult, bordering on impossible, childhood.

I also refer back often to Kathryn's comments in some interview or another that the writers gave her some details of Lilly's history to enrich the character and that she, in her mind, added some details that no one will ever know.

Perhaps it's my own life experience influencing me, but I don't imagine these details as being anything less than tragic.

Right!! Because in addition to the symbolic association between bikers in black leather jackets and abortion, Kathryn Morris has also given very subtle hints that Lilly may have had an abortion several times in this series. In the upcoming episode 1.23 "Lover's Lane", there's the strange belly-rub and startled look on Lilly's face in the final scene of the closing montage. (And again, strangely enough, the word "Leather" is mentioned at that very exact moment too... It's even raining outside, another important symbol for this show.) In 1.5 "The Runner", as the widow of the deceased cop says the line "we were thinking about what to name our baby", Kathryn very subtly looks downwards as if she's connecting with her. In this episode, people have mentioned one scene that EmptyMoment describes this way:

emptymoment said:

...Lilly is talking to Renee, and she's saying that she was 17 when she got pregnant. She wasn't rich or going to college or anything, but she wanted to get out..make something better for herself, and that wouldn't be possible with a baby in high school. When she says this Lilly says "sure..", and looks away and kinda zones out for a few seconds.... Of course this doesn't mean Lilly was pregnant at a young age, she could've just related to the 'wanting to get out' thing..guess it can be interpreted in different ways.

Either way, it's not just the show's non-verbal symbolisms that indicate a possibility that Lilly had an abortion. Kathryn Morris also weaves very subtle gestures into her acting that hint towards this possibility. Finally, open to interpretation is Lilly's arrest scene back in 1.5 "The Runner". Essentially, Lilly connects to the man she's about to arrest by saying that she understands what it's like to run away from who you are, and at some point one needs to forgive themself for what they did. Was this a scene where Kathryn's excellent acting was enhanced by an inside knowledge of Lilly's past? Or was it just simply Lilly telling an elaborate white lie to snag a criminal??

---

It seems that some of y'all are missing the point of tragedies as a theatrical and literary genre. It's definitely among the oldest in Western civilization, going back to the Greeks, of course. The writers for Cold Case seem to hold a somewhat unique and modern view of this genre.

The thing about tragedies in Cold Case is that first and foremost, it doesn't necessarily pass judgement on the victim. Misfortune in Cold Case tragedies is not the consequence of immorality, weakness, ignorance, lack of intelligence, lack of faith, or any other lack of virtue or strength. A tragedy can occur to someone who is strong, intelligent, faithful, and virtuous too. Look at the victims in this series:

--1.11 "Hubris" The victim is a young woman who was trying to do the right thing when she realizes the harm she is causing to the wife of her lover.
--1.12 "Glued" The victim is a young boy whose parents are faithful Christians.
--1.13 "The Letter" The victim is a strong, intelligent, and loving black woman.
--1.14 "The Boy in the Box" The victim is a young boy who died when his mom was trying sincerely to seek a treatment for his hyperactivity.
--1.15 "Disco Inferno" Twenty-three innocent victims perished in a fire.

The last example is a good illustration of how tragedies occur when situations come together to pose a difficult or inescapable situation for the victims or protagonist. These examples show how being involved in a tragedy has nothing to do with a person's character, moral standing, intelligence, or faith. Cold Case really likes to tear into the idea that "Good things happen to Good people" and often vice versa too. (Bad things don't necessarily happen to bad people in this show. For example 1.19 "Late Returns", the actual murderer gets away--and remains rather influential and powerful as a politician.)

Thus, I think it's rather self-deceptive to reason that Lilly's good character or personal strength has anything to do with the possiblility that she had an abortion or not. In a hypothetical tragedy, the situation will come together whereby Lilly will make a decision to have an abortion because it is the best of several worse options she has.

Shocking?? Well, think about it: Who cares about something bad happening to a bad person?? It makes for boring drama. It's much more gut-wrenching when a victim is a sweet and innocent four-year-old (as in "A Perfect Day"), or a wrongly-convicted man who was seeking faith in God (as in "Death Penalty"), or good people living in a bad neighborhood (as in "Saving Patrick Bubley"). I hate to say this, but the more you folks elevate Lilly to a larger-than-life character, the more tempting it must be for the writers to write a tragedy around her character--that's the ironic nature behind tragedies.

[By the way, this is a good moment to point out that there were two cold cases in the episode "8 Years". The main victim was Clem, the guy who had the cool cars and married the Homecoming Queen. A second unsolved murder in that episode involved Henry Mack, the scumbag auto-theft ringleader. Obviously, the more intriguing story is to solve the mystery of how one of the most popular guys in high school ends up dead, eight years after graduation--not how the low-life car thief (and murderer) died. This kind of minute detail (bad things happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people as well) is yet another example of why I really like that episode.]

InsideR points out that film noir is the basis for gritty cop shows. Personally, I don't know what scholars think, but I feel that film noir is additionally a stylish American take on Greek and Classical tragedies. And again, as Cold Case likes to tell tragic stories, I see no reason why we're not being set up for something really gut-wrenching and heartbreaking regarding twenty-something Lilly Rush.

---

BTW, I want to mention that 1969 Lionel Royce (the head of the local BLF) is wearing one fine black leather jacket. Man, I want to know where they got that from..

Anyway, speaking of Black Leather Jackets... kinda interesting to see Scotty wear one too in this episode. Foreshadow to 3.22 "The River"?? Hmm.... I still can't figure out why Kat wears one occasionally too....

[frenchfan]

Boxman,

I must acknowledge which I am very disturbed by your demonstration.
Indeed the way in which symbolisms are used in the episodes quoted, the way also in which Lilly reacts sometimes, (personally I shall add the ep 1X12 when Stillman teaches to lilly that her daughter is pregnant, Her glance takes a strange expression (but just one second)) lets suppose that she can have undergone an abortion.
But sincerely I hope that it of it is nothing, not because I believe that that would go against her personality, but simply I already said it, to add this drama with her life to give a still different dimension does not seem necessary to me. She struggles with sufficient old demons.

[boxman]

frenchfan said:

Boxman,

I must acknowledge which I am very disturbed by your demonstration.
Indeed the way in which symbolisms are used in the episodes quoted, the way also in which Lilly reacts sometimes, (personally I shall add the ep 1X12 when Stillman teaches to lilly that her daughter is pregnant, Her glance takes a strange expression (but just one second)) lets suppose that she can have undergone an abortion.
But sincerely I hope that it of it is nothing, not because I believe that that would go against her personality, but simply I already said it, to add this drama with her life to give a still different dimension does not seem necessary to me. She struggles with sufficient old demons.

Well, to calm your fears, FrenchFan, let me make a strong argument against myself:

"Very interesting points, boxman, but as you point out, interpreting symbolism is at best, akin to reading tea leaves. Or maybe better said, its a lot more like superstition to look at symbols and derive meaning from them.

"As you have stated earlier, the show plays upon three belief systems: Philosophy, Religion, and Superstition. You yourself ranked Superstition last! Remember at times in this series that mirrors have been broken. What has this ever symbolized? Seven years bad luck? In "Disco Inferno", the suspect was free for decades in spite of breaking a mirror. Superstition=Reading tea leaves=Interpreting symbolisms. They don't necessarily mean anything in Cold Case.

"Another weakness to your approach is that you know the symbolisms are used to mislead the audience. A prime example of this is the episode "The River". You made an interesting association of the color red as a symbol that foreshadows anger. Yet, we also find in that episode that they bluffed you like a good poker player when the color red appeared in Mrs. Lee's pet store... There was no argument or fight in that store. Instead, there was resolution. Similarly, these little hints to Lilly's "mysterious" twenty-something years and a possible abortion (w/MCMan) might all be a bluff.... Maybe you can call them on it?? Because you could be falling into an elaborate bluff the writers are setting up...

"Finally, you know some symbols mean absolutely nothing. In 1.9 "Sherry Darlin'" what were the predominant red and blue colours for? You stated yourself it was more for the sake of aesthetics rather than symbolisms. In the same manner, all these symbolisms, all these "little facial expressions" that Kathryn makes while portraying Lilly might be just that: Aesthetics... and not much more. Another example is the Black Leather Jackets. Yes, MCMan wore one, as did the motorcycle guy in this episode. However, Kat has worn a Black Leather Jacket many times since she premiered in this show (in the episode "Honor")... and it turns out she's a rather responsible, caring, and highly-respectable single-parent. Again, there may be no significance to the fact that it was a motorcyclist that performed the abortion in this episode. It may simply all been a matter of aesthetics, so to speak, that a greasy rebellious-type dude did abortions in his kitchen.

"All-in-all, it's an interesting perspective, boxman. But I hope the writers keep the drama to the talk on the message boards...and not in Lilly's life. Let's just see more Lilly doing detective work in Season Four.

"Best regards (and your best friend always),
boxman"

[longislanditalian2]

Boxman- You really bring up some very good points, in reguarding Lilly and how Kathryn displays all those emotions. Although she might not have any insight to what really happened with Lilly long ago, she manages to add this a way to show the viewers that she is also human too.

Many things you have pointed out does suggest she might have had an abortion but maybe it was a just a miscarriage or an accident when she went riding with Ray? , like I said we really don't know with Lilly.
It's confusing but, wait in the episode " Franks Best" when Vera is holding the baby, Lilly just smiles and doesn't show any sign of sadness. Maybe she wasn't pregnant at all maybe it was just the feeling of wanting to have a baby so bad. Lilly does give off a lot of mixed emotions but we as the viewers are left to wonder what really did happen

[frenchfan]

Boxman

I am worried in no way. ;D

Thank you for your argument against yourself, also interesting, that your first intervention, if my English was not so bad (moreover I had made the decision not to intervene more, it's necessary that I do it) I would have been doubtless able to develop in a different way, but it is really too difficult for me (thanks to have made it for my place ).
It is sure that we can make say everything and anything in the symbols, in the colours, in the glances...
But Lilly can very well have had an abortion, as the opposite.
I repeat it for my part I do not believe in it and especially do not wish it (Even having read your interesting demonstration).

[coldboneslove398]

OMG....Lilly smoking??? I wonder why her character didn't have a smoking habit on the show.... o.O

[longislanditalian2]

Lilly wasn't acutally smoking, she was pretending in order to get the DNA from the other Cigarette.

[eurache]

RE-AIRING JANUARY 22ND, 2008

[longislanditalian2]

I just noticed something about Scotty, he acts almost like he's embarassed to be around Elissa.

[annasayshi]

I'm new here and not quite sure how this works so sorry if I go wrong! I know it must be a long time since this episode aired (and even longer for everyone in the USA!) but i just wanted to comment on it (hope that's ok!) as i've been trying to speed watch Cold Case since the summer so only recently saw this episode and it turned out to be one of my favourites. Weirdly, even though it was very sad because the victims were such good people trying to help others, I felt almost happy at the end of it, knowing that their case was closed. And I liked that there were a few bits of humour as well to lighten up the episode - Lilly meeting Elisa was really funny, and it was nice to see Lilly's big smile, and Scotty being all awkward and uncomfortable.

After seeing this me and my sister had a big discussion about Scotty's kind of odd behaviour around Elisa, but we didn't really think it was because he was embarassed about her - more that he was surprised (and worried at first) to see her there, and then embarassed to talk about it in front of Lilly (maybe he thought having his girlfriend there made him seem unprofessional or something), and then probably concerned about what to say about her illness - I have no idea so I'm just guessing, but I would have thought it's not something you would want to tell a lot of people. After all, it would be hard to know what to say, and hard for the person you told to know how to respond, and then there would be the fear that people would act weirdly around her once they knew, since it's something people generally don't know much about. Anyway, that was just what i thought, and i could well be wrong :-) Well done to anyone who manages to get to the end of my random babbling! =)

[riche]

Hi anna. Welcome. Don't worry, you're doing fine.

I think that Scotty is a little embarrassed about Elisa. Not that he is embarrassed by her as such but more about the possible reaction of his co-workers. Scotty (at least early in the series) puts on this macho front. There is at least one mention of him coming to work in the same clothes he had on the night before, he played up to it. And now we're finding out that he his looking after this woman that he's been with for years. He's not the ladies-man he portrays himself as.

Yes, he gets a few comments from the likes of Nick but they all understand and accept it for what it is. Scotty comes to realise that he doesn't need to "front" as he did before with them.


If you need any help anna either PM me (click the 2nd icon above "May 2006" on the left of my posts) or one of the other mods (look for the coloured names). Or post in the Help And Suggestions section. I'm in the UK as well which may help with timing.

[annasayshi]

Hi, thank you very much for the welcome :-) And thank you for the offer of help!

Everything you said makes a lot of sense, and I think I can understand Scotty's awkwardness about being in public with Elisa much better, so thanks :-) Especially since I just saw Love Conquers Al today and now I realize that the impression we get of Scotty and his "complicated social life" is quite different at the start from later on (or at least the later episodes I've seen). He does have that kind of macho, ladies man image you described and like you say he plays up to it.
Also, seeing how Lilly and Scotty's partnership starts off I can see why he would be so funny about the "you're so beautiful" comment - I'm sure he must have noticed that Lilly is beautiful, but she's also obviously his superior and that's the kind of thing you might be embarassed to even think about your boss!
I've seen quite a lot of episodes in a pretty jumbled order and so sometimes it can be strange adjusting to how the characters were earlier on, especially as some seem to have changed quite a lot over time!

[eurache]

REPEAT ON TNT - JUNE 17, 2008 (3AM)