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Post by Tati on Aug 4, 2004 10:42:42 GMT -5
TV Fan - good theory about what Lilly said in Lover's Lane. It's probably something like that.
We don't know if Lilly's sister is younger or older, but if she's younger maybe Lilly had to take care of her when their mom was absent and/or sick.
Let's hope we find out next season. I'm really looking forward to meeting both Lilly's mom and sis.
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byrdman9802
Lilly's Bedroom 
Kathryn Informant [/center]Lil's Motorcycle Man in waiting [/color]
Posts: 2,361
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Post by byrdman9802 on Nov 16, 2005 5:55:51 GMT -5
Good morning all, Hello, this is the Byrdman coming at you today. I hope that everyone is doing well, and that you are all rocking and rolling through your weeks, just like me. ;D Hey, I just saw on TNT's site that this ep will be shown on Tuesday, November 29 at 10 pm (central time) on channel 245 (TNT on DirecTV). I'm really looking forward to seeing this ep myself, and I hope the rest of you get to tune in to enjoy it as well. Take care, and have a great day, everyone!  |
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Post by foxfire0114 on Nov 30, 2005 1:50:58 GMT -5
What a great episode! I really missed out on a great season the first time around. Anywho, I thought the train track scene was played out very well. I was taken back when she said, "and i'm your girl now." But I understand what she meant by that now... reading jeyon's comment. Now, do you think James took her comment the other way? He did write her several letters. I faintly remember the Dear James letter episode... argh! I think it was "Kensington."
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Post by TVFan on Nov 30, 2005 12:12:27 GMT -5
That scene is one of the most debated from season 1 foxfire. I think Lilly meant it as she's the girl who believes in him now, and he needs to let go of Sherry because she's no good. How James took it, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if he sees LIlly as a romantic type of interest or simply as someone he can talk to and have some sort of friendship with. I thought that Lilly was quite cold to him in Kensington, especially considering how understanding and caring she was in this ep. I did think that the ending scene in Kensington somewhat made up for her lack of kindness earlier in the episode. James is one of those characters that I'd like to see the show follow up on in future episodes. He made a big imprssion on not only Lilly, but the show and the viewers.
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Post by soccerulz on Nov 30, 2005 15:12:17 GMT -5
TVFan: As you said, that scene is one of the most debated from season 1. I thought the same thing you did. But, I'm sure James could have taken in a number of different ways.
I'd like to see James pop in now and again too. He just made such a big impression on me....I loved the way he was worked in during Kensington. I thought that was done really well.
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Post by anna16profiler on Dec 3, 2005 15:08:19 GMT -5
yes this was a very meaningful episode, actually one of my favourites, really awesome..
the interaction between lilly and james is just fabulous and i loved it that he came back in kensington... i hope we will meet him again, especially as i think he really found a way to his girl... i mean he noticed her pain and was very sensitive and kind to her... he can be a great friend as i think...
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Post by Tati on Dec 4, 2005 11:41:20 GMT -5
I thought that Lilly was quite cold to him in Kensington, especially considering how understanding and caring she was in this ep. I did think that the ending scene in Kensington somewhat made up for her lack of kindness earlier in the episode. I understood Lil's coldness in Kensington (and before, considering she never answered his letters) was because she was unsure of how to deal with that situation. That was a very weird situation, not matter how sweet James may be. I don't know about Lil, but I'd be scared if a guy I put in jail started writing me letters. Besides that, Lil have problems in getting close to people and opening up. So for me it was a part of her "resistance" to that new "friendship" (I'm not sure how to call that relationship). |
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Post by anna16profiler on Dec 4, 2005 15:34:02 GMT -5
I understood Lil's coldness in Kensington (and before, considering she never answered his letters) was because she was unsure of how to deal with that situation. That was a very weird situation, not matter how sweet James may be. I don't know about Lil, but I'd be scared if a guy I put in jail started writing me letters. Besides that, Lil have problems in getting close to people and opening up. So for me it was a part of her "resistance" to that new "friendship" (I'm not sure how to call that relationship). i totally agree, it was a difficult sistuation and lilly is the kind of girl who is always careful and rather shy when it is about showing personal stuff and writing a letter is very personal. i think just because she is who she is, it is really great and a jump over her shadow that she finally did choose to write him.... i loved that, it was so cute, if only we could know, what she wrote  |
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Post by TVFan on Dec 5, 2005 12:39:02 GMT -5
Excellent points Tati and disasterfreak! I think you guys are so right. Thanks for clarifying. It definitely makes sense now.  |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Jun 28, 2006 1:38:21 GMT -5
I saw this episode for the first time tonight on TNT. Very interesting to see the kitchen/teakettle symbology there from the very start of the show's run, knowing that this recurs in at least two episodes of season three. Also a duck (waterfowl) in the kitchen too.
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Post by TVFan on Jun 28, 2006 9:59:19 GMT -5
boxman - I was wondering what your thoughts are on the flashbacks' use of the colors blue and red? The rest of the colors were muted, but the blue and the red were vibrant and very noticeable. I think you're starting to have an effect on me because I noticed that the blue theme carried over into the present day stuff as well. And then I started thinking about it, and I realized that CC uses blue a lot. In fact, if I were to summarize the show with one color it would be blue. I get that blue=cold, and we're working with cold cases and of course your water symbology, but is there anything beyond it? Also, I hadn't noticed this before during the 8,000 other times that I have watched this episode (seriously, I think I have a lot of the dialog memorized!), but I was watching it in HD last night and Lilly was actually crying in that final basement scene with James. I had always noticed the tears in her eyes, but I had not seen the tears that actually rolled down her face. And of course, there aren't enough good words in the world to describe her episode-wide awesome performance. This one and Mind Hunter just blew me away!
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Post by frenchfan on Jun 28, 2006 11:26:19 GMT -5
And of course, there aren't enough good words in the world to describe her episode-wide awesome performance. I am like you TVfan, I saw this episode much once and each time the same emotion submerges me. Kathryn is exceptional, she manages to join together so much emotions. She is splendid and his glance is even deeper, of a particular blue (in the final scene). There are no enough strong words to describe the emotions that she gives us. One moment that only Kathryn can give. This final scene is for me higher than mindhunter in the pallet of emotions Also, I hadn't noticed this before during the 8,000 other times that I have watched this episode (seriously, I think I have a lot of the dialog memorized!), but I was watching it in HD last night and Lilly was actually crying in that final basement scene with James. I had always noticed the tears in her eyes, but I had not seen the tears that actually rolled down her face. For me, it's in the ep 2X16 (during the interrogation when she refers to her mother), that I had not seen that Lilly really cried. I had not seen the tear that rolled down her face. One moment of a rare intensity too. PS :Sorry my English is always also bad.  |
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LillyKat
Lilly Rush
Loyal to Lil'
Posts: 1,132
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Post by LillyKat on Jun 28, 2006 12:39:33 GMT -5
Was able see this for the first time last night on TNT, and I was not disappointed. It was a fantastic episode, and I can understand exactly why so many think so highly of this ep. Definitely now ranks as one of my favorites. I truly loved the story, and I thought the performances by both Kathryn and Silas were exceptional. There was an amazing chemistry. The Lilly/James dynamic is indeed just that - dynamic. Whatever he fired at her, she fired right back. I loved that back and forth, and yet at the end, there was such a delicacy to their interaction ... a tenderness ... was so well-paced, and such rich characterization on the part of James. I really enjoyed how much there was of Lilly in this ep, and I am beginning to see why folks have been saying there has been so little of her in Season 3. (Then again, Kathryn had NO days off in Season 1, so whilst I do want her to have a day off now and then, I am getting spoiled watching these older eps where she is in every scene. ) Along those lines, I'd have to say that what struck me the most about this episode is how different Lilly is today. This will likely bring up the old Lilly vs. new Lilly debate again, but as a new follower of the show who is watching both Season 1 and Season 3 at the same time, there is indeed a noticeable change in the character. Now, I stand by what I've stated previously in that the character has to have changed given all she been through over the past three seasons. If she didn't, I think she'd be an android. LOL! And, all of this arguably culminated in "Joseph," and we shall wait to see where it is she'll go next (which I am looking forward to). But, there is ... for lack of a better word ... a certain spunk in her in these early episodes. She jokes, she laughs, her sarcasm seems more playful whilst still being clever and stinging. She seems, to me, to almost have more of a lively personality in some of these earlier eps, not as tempered. It is perhaps unfair that I have the benefit of being able to watch past and present eps simultaneously. So, perhaps my critique is too biased. But, while I do not mind the "new" Lilly (because, after all, she cannot go through all that she has been through and not change), I would not mind seeing a touch back to some of what made her in these older eps. This reminds me of the great debate during the last two seasons of The X-Files whereby so many longtime followers thought Gillian Anderson's portrayal of Agent Dana Scully had become a shell of its former self. That is, she was still Scully, but she wasn't the Scully they had been so accustomed to. The argument was that she seemed to have become "something else" (and not a popular "something else"), with flashes of the "old" Scully popping up every so often. Again, this can be debated until the day is long, and I am not opposed to characters changing over time due to the circumstances that affect their lives, and thus, are the catalyst for the change, but I am not sure abandoning what made them so endearing in the first place is a good idea, either. I think there can be a balance. I am sure I'll have more observations as I continue to catch up on eps, but as I've now seen about 8-10 older eps (mixed between Seasons 1 & 2), I'm kind of thinking a touch back to a little bit of "old" Lilly whilst moving forward into "new" Lilly would not be a bad thing. |
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tiger_lilly
Veteran Detective
Loves Lilly [/color]
Posts: 794
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Post by tiger_lilly on Jun 28, 2006 12:49:20 GMT -5
Wow, you really have a way with words and saying them just right LillyKat  . Didn't want to quote your whole post, but I do agree with all of it! |
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koufax
Desk Clerk II
Posts: 93
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Post by koufax on Jun 28, 2006 16:58:50 GMT -5
Hi Lillykat,
What is you said is exactly what I have been saying all season three. As someone who has watched the first two seasons, season three was disappointing in the lack of "spunk" and wittiness of Lilly that was displayed in the first two seasons. Also, if you noticed there is much more interaction between the detectives in figuring out the case as well as banter back and forth, in the first two seasons. There were a few episodes of season three, such as "Start Up" that seemed to reflect the past two seasons. However, for the most part season three(to me) was pretty disappointing.
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LillyKat
Lilly Rush
Loyal to Lil'
Posts: 1,132
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Post by LillyKat on Jun 28, 2006 17:52:59 GMT -5
Wow, you really have a way with words and saying them just right LillyKat . Didn't want to quote your whole post, but I do agree with all of it! Thanks, tiger_lilly! Sort of did not even realize how long that post ended up being ... Also, if you noticed there is much more interaction between the detectives in figuring out the case as well as banter back and forth, in the first two seasons. Really good point, koufax, as I meant to include that in my original post. The interaction between the detectives was much more fluid and "together." Everyone did not just meet at their desks to recap the case, then go their separate ways. They crossed each other's path more it seemed, and they appeared more loose, less rigid, informal. I liked that quite a bit. I thought Lilly and Vera worked really well together - nice team. |
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Post by xokellbellox on Jun 28, 2006 20:38:56 GMT -5
Yea i have to agree i just started watching Cold Case during season three and i really liked it ..hint y i keep coming back to it and i also started watching the old re-runs on TNT and i have noticed this "spunky" Lilly that i really like. and i wish i see more of that lilly in season 4.
Example: in "Fly Away" (Which has become my favorite episode so far ...i cried and i'm really not a crier ..the episode was just soo perfectly written) one of my favorite parts that made my laugh was when lilly was in the interagation room with Rosie's dad and she was provoking him the hit her...."come on hit me" then she walked around the table and nudged him and said "hit me" I loved that!!! lol
EX: Sherry Darling which was another great episode ...I Love how Kathryn dilered this line..."JAMES...why you kill her ...she wasn't a good grandma" i don't what about but i busted out laughing...idk i just really like lilly throughtout the whole episode.
well i think that good enough for my first post..my cherry has offically been popped
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Jun 28, 2006 23:12:16 GMT -5
boxman - I was wondering what your thoughts are on the flashbacks' use of the colors blue and red? The rest of the colors were muted, but the blue and the red were vibrant and very noticeable.... I did notice that too, but I havta admit I was a bit sleepy when watching this episode so I haven't given it much thought. According to Pixie's Post, Blue and Light Blue stands for "Lust" and "Sloth". These are rather appropriate associations, but you already know that Red is for "Anger", which is used well in Season Three's "The River". I don't know why it was used here. Sometimes, it seems that aesthetics end up over-ruling consistent symbology in this series. For example, I still have a theory about people who wear "Black Leather Jackets" that I can't really confirm yet, even after the entire season three. Frankly, I don't mind that some of their symbolic references aren't consistent because it would make predicting the future course of this show rather easy. The curveballs are kind of fun to take a swing at. At this moment, I think that's why the Red in this episode doesn't seem to be connected to anything significant (when we think it should), because it might just be a case where the color simply looked good during filming. (Of course, this is why we need commentaries from the Art Director on those Cold Case DVDs. ) Ha ha ha... I've been trying very hard to get others to interpret Cold Case symbology, so I'm happy to hear that! That's a good question about the blue theme. If you look at old CC promo pictures, the photographer uses golden yellow or warmer tones more often than blue. For example, the left "Polaroid" picture on Look Again's home page, or WB's Cold Case webpage (which hasn't been updated in years), or these promo pictures at TVGuide.com. You can easily figure out which pictures are from the earlier seasons. They seem to have more warmer, brighter colors. In later years, they started to use blue more often, as in the picture on the right of Look Again's home page. I'm not really sure if the shift is associated with the show at this point, though.... Sometimes with these things, you just have to be satisfied with an unanswered question. Maybe the answer will come tommorrow, maybe next year. Maybe never. I think having that uncertainty scares people from raising questions like this in the first place, though one has to resist such fears and be bold about wondering. Isn't it more natural to wonder, anyway?? More pure and innocent to ask about something you see and don't understand?? I think when people are young, sometimes they get discouraged by adults from asking questions about the unknown, so they end up as adults who are afraid to wonder about unanswerable mysteries such as this. Still, it never hurts to ask and wonder! Actually, I *did* notice the tears in this episode--because towards the end of Season Three, I began wondering what kind of things make Lilly cry and was curious when we'd see tears in her eyes! One of the things I was going to post in the "What do you want to see in Season Four" thread was a Lilly shower scene.... but not like the suggestive manner we were joking about. I was wondering if there ever would be a case that really turns the knife in her chest and kind of rips her and her tough facade apart, so much so that she needs to take a long hot shower and just let the water pound on her back. Lo and behold! It already happened here in season one! (Sadly, without the hot shower, though.  ) It really caught me by surprise, after all the earlier discussion about what a loner Lilly seems to be. ...I'd have to say that what struck me the most about this episode is how different Lilly is today. This will likely bring up the old Lilly vs. new Lilly debate again, but as a new follower of the show who is watching both Season 1 and Season 3 at the same time, there is indeed a noticeable change in the character. Now, I stand by what I've stated previously in that the character has to have changed given all she been through over the past three seasons. If she didn't, I think she'd be an android. LOL! ... Ha ha ha.... And when I think about this, one has to realise that while Lilly has changed over the years, it's much because the actress that plays her has that range of acting! Kudos to Kathryn!! I think we once discovered that a lot of us here also watched The X-Files too! ... if you noticed there is much more interaction between the detectives in figuring out the case as well as banter back and forth, in the first two seasons.... ...The interaction between the detectives was much more fluid and "together." Everyone did not just meet at their desks to recap the case, then go their separate ways. They crossed each other's path more it seemed, and they appeared more loose, less rigid, informal. I liked that quite a bit. I thought Lilly and Vera worked really well together - nice team. ... and i have noticed this "spunky" Lilly that i really like. and i wish i see more of that lilly in season 4.... Yeeeesssss, annnndddd..... Lilly's flirting with a pushover!! Like, here's a guy who actually was thinking of marrying the woman who killed his grandmother, and Lilly resorts to flirting with him to corner him?? I thought that was weird!! ;D In my view, a very strange use of a woman's femininity... Lilly's flirtation with James is "Genre Twisting" too. The protagonist in a "typical" or "traditional" detective story doesn't normally do something like this or behave in this way. It's more typical behavior of the antagonist! See Femme Fatale. |
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Post by frenchfan on Jun 29, 2006 4:02:41 GMT -5
Boxman, First of all I wanted to thank you for approaching in a so particular way each episode. Your analyses on the symbols, the metaphors, the colors, the little details are so original and enriching. they clarify each episode of a different aspect.  Thus I re-examined this episode yesterday evening after having read your various comments and I believe that you also have an influence on me because I noticed something that I had not seen the preceding times. I noticed in this episode the small postcard on the table (one sees it at the beginning after the murder) on which he is written : « The time we spend together never seems long enough » These some words at the beginning of the episode takes all its direction during the episode. Each episode really abounds in lucky finds, reflexions, metaphors… This show is really so invaluable.
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Post by TVFan on Jun 29, 2006 10:35:40 GMT -5
I think this is perfectly stated LillyKat. This is exactly what I have been noticing as well as I have been re-watching some S1 eps and some S3 eps at the same time. There's definitely a difference, and naturally so, but I too would like to see them incorporate a little more of S1 Lilly's spunkiness into future seasons, especially since she seems to finally be over all the bad stuff of the past two seasons. I also agree with both you and koufax regarding the detective interaction. I think this is the one difference that really bothers me. I liked the way they used to work together more as a team, where now it feels like there is a complacency at PPD. I know the feeling because my workplace has become this way, but I'd prefer have things go back to being more dynamic between this talented group of detectives.
boxman - Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that visual look of the show will often dictate certain decisions. This is why I maintain that CC is one of the most visually stunning shows on TV.
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) It really caught me by surprise, after all the earlier discussion about what a loner Lilly seems to be.
