Episode 3.17: Superstar

[ecooper516]

I would also give this episode a 4. I liked the fact that Lilly was in it more and agree that it seemed more like the episodes of past seasons. I like it when Lilly does the tough interrrogation scenes.

[TVFan]

That Marie Curie reference is very interesting boxman! I also find it interesting that they used a real university as their setting. Usually, these crime dramas use made-up colleges as not to soil the real ones good names. It's especially interesting considering the fact that the Athletic Director from 1973 was so horrible. I suppose it was OK because the setting was 23 years ago and other than him, there really wasn't any negativety toward the university. Still interesting, though.

Oh, and I do think there is a pattern to the victims that Lilly seems to relate to the best. She always seems to hold a special place in her heart for the pioneering female types (this ep, Volunteers, Best Friends, etc), but she also does the same with loner-types. I think it's just that she relates to these victims the best. This also explains the keeping their photos by her bed revelation from last season.

[toddsmitts]

Surprised no one mentioned that the arrogant athletic director was none other than Biff Tannen himself: Tom Wilson!

A wierd connection though is that Mrs. Vera is played by Nina Siemaszko, the sister of actor Casey Siemaszko, whose credits include being one of Biff's gang in "Back to the Future" (he was the one with the 3-D glasses).

[boxman]

tvfan said:

That Marie Curie reference is very interesting boxman! I also find it interesting that they used a real university as their setting. Usually, these crime dramas use made-up colleges as not to soil the real ones good names. It's especially interesting considering the fact that the Athletic Director from 1973 was so horrible. I suppose it was OK because the setting was 23 years ago and other than him, there really wasn't any negativety toward the university. Still interesting, though.

It is interesting, isn't it? They actually played with this a bit though.... In the episode, they called it "Penn University", hinting at "University of Pennsylvania", the school's actual name that was seen on the building. This building is part of the same huge complex that the character Dawn Hill from "Detention" worked at. I suppose they have some kind of filming contract or license with the school. (Which is pretty smart, because its a huge university.) This wouldn't be too surprising, as Ms. Stiehm (as you already know), is a graduate of UPenn.

Oh, and I do think there is a pattern to the victims that Lilly seems to relate to the best. She always seems to hold a special place in her heart for the pioneering female types (this ep, Volunteers, Best Friends, etc), but she also does the same with loner-types. I think it's just that she relates to these victims the best. This also explains the keeping their photos by her bed revelation from last season.

That's interesting...and Lilly herself is a pioneer as a female in the Philly PD homocide department.... So, a "Marie Curie" of homocide??

[Disasterfreak]

I'm an idiot!! And much too sleepy to be allowed to write on the boards. I put my 3.16 review over here. Sorry guys. Goin over to the other thread now.

:smile66: :smile36:

[TVFan]

That's interesting...and Lilly herself is a pioneer as a female in the Philly PD homocide department.... So, a "Marie Curie" of homocide??

Exactly boxman! I think this is why she relates to this type of victim well.

[Tati]

I give a 3 (good) to this one. Interesting case, good mystery, and a not so obvious killer. Now, what I really liked were scenes with Vera and his wife. Very intense! I really felt for Julie... she put up with so much, and yet she couldn't fix her marriage. How sad was when she told that she bought a white coat just like Vera's ex had. But, like TVFan, I can't get angry at him, and I hope they get back together (but only if Vera changes his behaviour, of course).

[ewka]

A nice episode. I thought there would be something boring after so brilliant ones as e.g. "Dog Day Afternoons", but I liked it.

[boxman]

tapageur said:

that is totally off topic but I was wondering if boxman had ever caught the CC team filming on location in Philly....

Ahh... unfortunately, I never have seen them film in Philly!

The scene where Vera and Jeffries are leaving a restaurant after lunch (and discussing Vera going drinking with buddies) was filmed on-location in Philly: www.pennsviewhotel.com/

I've mentioned elsewhere that a lot of the outdoor scenes are filmed here, so I'm rather surprised that after three years I haven't seen them around. "Hack", another Philly-based cop show, was on for only one season (also on CBS) and I'd see their trucks and trailers all the time. I usually have a camera with me, so if I ever see a CC truck, believe me, I'll post pics right away!

toddsmitts said:

Surprised no one mentioned that the arrogant athletic director was none other than Biff Tannen himself: Tom Wilson!

A wierd connection though is that Mrs. Vera is played by Nina Siemaszko, the sister of actor Casey Siemaszko, whose credits include being one of Biff's gang in "Back to the Future" (he was the one with the 3-D glasses).

Wow! Cool observation! I'm not good at recognizing actors like that. People mentioned in the chatroom that there were other familiar faces. Mel Harris was another actress that other people recognized. She's most known for her role from the late-80s show, "thirtysomething" (which also strangely took place in Philly), and played the role of the older Grace.

[boxman]

Since Eurache doesn't seem as if she's going to recap the chat, let me share some of the things I noted about the episode:

There was a funny visual gag in the scene when Andi collapses from the laced towel. When Grace grabs the towel and puts it aside to help Andi, the university's letters can be seen. It says "P.U.", ha ha ha. Of course, its the fumes from the towel that makes Andi sick. Even more funny, is that the towel is placed atop a small trash can.

Again, Kat is wearing a black leather jacket. I'm wondering if such jackets symbolize that a person is a sinner. In "Sanctuary", Kat also is wearing a black leather jacket in the closing montage, right before Father Peralta's before/after comparison. Another hint that Kat may have something to hide is the appearance of fluorescent lights in the cut between Kat and Father Peralta. The bright fluorescent lights against the dark ceiling seem to be visually tied to the white painted stripes on black asphalt, which itself is tied to the automotive/crime symbology. This symbology is most obviously presented in the episode "8 Years", as well as weekly during the show's opening theme. Very loose connections, but something I believe is worth keeping an eye out for....

[Disasterfreak]

Just watched it. You guys have probably said everything that went through my mind during this episode, so I'll only add a few things I CAN'T shut up about.

This episode hurt me. Lots of good acting--maybe that's why it hit so hard. Vera's scene with his wife was probably among the most powerful and realistic I've seen on this show. A hundred gold stars for Jeremy (?) Ratchford. I wanted to howl and hold him, it hurt so bad. When the guys went to see him afterwards it was really touching too.

I really felt for Emily, Andi's sister. She loved Andi and she probably loved her dad, but her dad didn't love her. Or he loved her, but he was too smitten with Andi to notice. I was really touched when the dad realized it in the end.

Dunno what else to say. All the characters were just really strong IMO. The case was well woven. I thought it would be really over the top, because the sodium nitrate thing seemed so contrived... but it all fit in the end. Poor Andi. She just wanted to have a semi normal life.

EDIT: (as usual) I didn't really understand that pattern Sonny picked up about the boys and not having any friends that you mentioned, Boxman. I'm really impressed at the Marie Curie thing though... I'd almost be willing to accept your symbol theory now, except it makes me feel really insecure so I'd rather not. ;D

Sonny and TVFan:I agree with everything you've said about the episode except Lilly's make up. I don't like the pink blush and bright red lips. Didn't really notice the amount of screentime she had either, but her interrogation was of good quality. No uncalled for display of emotions, even though she must have been struck by what the guy hurled at her "have you ever been screwed by a man so many times..." or something along those lines. I liked it. It was a suitable Lilly moment.

[sonny]

Glad you liked the episode DF. ;D ;D ;D

[boxman]

disasterfreak said:

I didn't really understand that pattern Sonny picked up about the boys and not having any friends that you mentioned, Boxman. I'm really impressed at the Marie Curie thing though... I'd almost be willing to accept your symbol theory now, except it makes me feel really insecure so I'd rather not. ;D

It's just simply that Lilly tends to have a pattern of seeing the "lonely" victims at the end of the show, especially the late teen/young adult ones. We all pretty much agreed earlier (on the "One Night" thread) that the 'apparitions' aren't ghosts, but rather the imagination of the viewer. When Lilly constantly sees the lonely victims' images after the crime is solved (including the ones who are "afraid of being lonely"), it seems to show she's pretty much a very lonely person herself because of her empathy towards them. Moreso, it seems to indicate that Lilly was lonely during those late teen/young adult years too. Have you been reading our discussion on the "One Night" thread? We take this concept a little further there....

I'm not sure why there's so much resistance at believing that the whole series was generally planned in advance like I'm proposing. Of course, the writers could not foresee certain actors leaving the show, or the reaction by the audience to certain topics, so they have to accommodate to that. All it is, really, is that I think its sensible to assume that they started with a 'blueprint' of how they wanted to go about constructing the entire series, and are more-or-less following those plans. When you have a blueprint, you know where to lay down pipes before you pour cement. Likewise, if they already planned in advance that teenage Lilly had a boyfriend that rode a motorcycle (and possibly had a child with), they could easily have laid down the foundations for that storyline years in advance of actually revealing it to us. Additionally, for a teenage Lilly to consider marriage, she most likely was a very lonely person at that age. Thus you have the foundations of Lilly empathizing with lonely teenagers/young adults, having injured cats as pets, not having girlfriends to hang with, not meeting with Vera and 'the boys' at the end of this episode, and so forth....

The thing that makes Cold Case different from other cop shows is that the crimes take place years ago. This allows Cold Case to deal with the topic of people undergoing change: "Time passes, people's loyalties and circumstances change." It makes sense to me that the writers need to show the main characters undergoing change as well; otherwise, they're ignoring the very premise of this show. Also, that's why its confusing to me that so many of you want and expect to see the return of "Season One Lilly". I don't think that's going to happen at all--rather, "Mullet Lilly" is just a few episodes away. ha ha ha ;D

[Disasterfreak]

I don't exactly expect or want Season 1 Lilly, I know people have to change. I just don't LIKE this new Lilly. But if she has to be here, then so be it.

[boxman]

boxman said:

The scene where Vera and Jeffries are leaving a restaurant after lunch (and discussing Vera going drinking with buddies) was filmed on-location in Philly: www.pennsviewhotel.com/

I've recently found out that Ristorante Panorama, a restaurant inside of the Penn's View Hotel, is the location of Anne-Marie Fahey and Thomas Capano's last dinner together. Kathryn Morris portrayed Fahey in the movie, "And Never Let Her Go". It's an interesting (and kinda creepy) connection. As Capano had a controlling personality, when he couldn't have Fahey, he killed her. Somewhat loosely, the plot for this episode follow a similar story.

[TVFan]

That is strange boxman! Thanks for the trivia!

[boxman]

tvfan said:

That is strange boxman! Thanks for the trivia!

And speaking of foreshadowing (from the "Ravaged" thread), if one knew that little trivia, it could've led some people to predict the killer in this episode! Though most would probably have incorrectly chosen her dad as the controlling male figure. Oh well... Like I said, throw us those curveballs!!

[Naj]

Reairs August 13.

[coldcasegirl]

I'll be watching it, but this episode didn't appeal to me very much, it wasn't very entertaining, and I just didn't like how it played out as well as others. But I never miss an ep. of CC! That's crazy-talk! LOL ;D

[Naj]

I didn't comment on this one first time around because I had no computer. I thought it was a good episode. I didn't care for the case all that much. When the case is strong and the detectives personal lives are interesting then it's a winner. Or when the case is excellent and the detectives are just solving being minor like in A Perfect Day for example then it's a winner.

The PU on the towel, boxman, was for Penn University. I also enjoyed the Vera story and thought Lillly finally looked nice for this season. I guess Lil isn't afraid to go to an empty tennis court alone at night!

I can see how TVFan has seen that Lilly's style of interrogation is more like Stillman and maybe he is prepping her to take his place. I liked her interrogation this episode. Let's face it she doesn't get many of them anymore.

Lilly tends to have a pattern of seeing the "lonely" victims at the end of the show, especially the late teen/young adult ones. We all pretty much agreed earlier (on the "One Night" thread) that the 'apparitions' aren't ghosts, but rather the imagination of the viewer. When Lilly constantly sees the lonely victims' images after the crime is solved (including the ones who are "afraid of being lonely"), it seems to show she's pretty much a very lonely person herself because of her empathy towards them.

I agree these aren't apparations but our imagination. Lilly is just going to these places or thinking of the person and the case solved in that she has done her job. It's her way to pay hommage to the victim.