cellogal
Veteran Detective
Recap Expert[/color]
Don't worry. I'll be polite.
Posts: 710
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Post by cellogal on Nov 17, 2008 19:02:40 GMT -5
I was surprised that Scotty didn't question Lilly what she was doing, after she had quickly aborted looking up the information. There is nothing to suggest Scotty saw what she was doing or was at all suspicious. The first we see of Scotty he has his back to her and he is taking off his jacket. He didn't look at her, or glance at the screen after she's walked away. That, and he was too busy trying to figure out whether or not Kat poisoned his coffee!  |
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Post by adbutler4089 on Nov 17, 2008 19:21:30 GMT -5
They gave Monica Calhoun (Phoebe Curtis '89) a role that was very surprising. I like the episode a lot.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605 
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Nov 17, 2008 20:59:44 GMT -5
@ Boxman I gotta admit that I didn't really pay attention to the address that was given, but you did pique my curiosity when you mentioned all that about water, and the whole moor flower thing. I couldn't find anything about an actual flower called 'moorflower', so like you I broke the words apart. As you already mentioned; moor means "a tract of open, peaty, wasteland, often overgrown with heath, common in high latitudes and altitudes where drainage is poor; heath." Then there's the flower part, which therefore Moorflower could mean "A flower that grows in 'wasteland'" Then there's the last name of Rush. From houseofnames.com "Rush is a name of Anglo-Saxon origin and comes from the family once having lived near a clump of rushes. Rush is a local surname, which belongs to the category of hereditary surnames." The term rushes, from which the name derives from, is a type of flower. Specifically it's a type of flower that grows on infertile soil. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JuncaceaeThe last name of Cooper is also interesting. "The Cooper name was an occupational name given to a maker or repairer of barrels, casks, and buckets. It comes from the middle-English word "couper" or "cowper". It was a trade highly valued in the Middle Ages, as the construction of waterproof containers was no easy task with the tools of that time" The logical side of me is screaming that none of this matters, but the theorist side of me is like "Moor Flower. Moor = the infertile wasteland. Flower = Rush, the flower that grows in the moor." Anyways, I originally just thought he might be her father, because Lilly was doing some side research on him, and she doesn't strike me as the type to just research somebody for kicks and giggles. This indicates to me that this Paul Cooper guy means something to her. |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Nov 17, 2008 23:43:50 GMT -5
I just caught something: when Lilly was autotracking Cooper; his phone number shows up as 555-0178 ; which is or was her cell number that she had given to James Hogan in " Sherry Darling". More recently this number is quite different on her card that she had given to Marisa back in " The Dealer". You're really good with these details, LII!! I wonder why the numbers are the same? Paul Cooper does have the (856) South Jersey area code. Numerology-wise, "0 + 1 + 7 = 8". Is there any significance to this? The number "1 7" was important in the episode "It Takes A Village", and the number "8" tends to come up often in this show. Then there's the last name of Rush. From houseofnames.com "Rush is a name of Anglo-Saxon origin and comes from the family once having lived near a clump of rushes. Rush is a local surname, which belongs to the category of hereditary surnames." The term rushes, from which the name derives from, is a type of flower. Specifically it's a type of flower that grows on infertile soil. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JuncaceaeVERY INTERESTING! Thanks for the info, Reverend!! I never thought of looking into the origin of the name "Rush". I'm very surprised that it's also a flower!  I'm quite sure barrels actually were made on the New Jersey side of the Delaware river to supply the shipping ports of Philadelphia with containers. As I note each week, this show puts a tremendous amount of effort in writing stories that use accurate Philly location names. They do their research very thoroughly, so I don't think it's by any kind of chance he's named "Cooper". Logically, there must be some significance to give him this name and this location. My guess is that he might be a descendant of the original Coopers in the area, possibly making him an heir to "old money". Now wouldn't that be an outrageous plot twist? Lilly's long-lost father is old money, while she and her mom rotted out living in decrepit blue-collar Kensington? |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Nov 18, 2008 0:14:26 GMT -5
Okay. SOMEONE around here has to have the guts to step up and do this, so it might as well be me.  |
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Post by eurache on Nov 18, 2008 7:25:44 GMT -5
OMGs..  Boxy you found it! It's Vera!! whoo Hooo ;D  |
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Post by riche on Nov 18, 2008 7:57:12 GMT -5
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Nov 18, 2008 9:20:02 GMT -5
Here's another thought regarding "Paul Cooper": In the closing montage, the shadows in the window indicated there were two people in the room. What if the other person was Lilly's estranged sister, Christina? Oooo..... wouldn't that be a weird plot twist? Christina never went to NYC, but instead found their father to live with all these years?
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Post by riche on Nov 18, 2008 11:30:21 GMT -5
My guess is that he might be a descendant of the original Coopers in the area, possibly making him an heir to "old money". Now wouldn't that be an outrageous plot twist? Lilly's long-lost father is old money, while she and her mom rotted out living in decrepit blue-collar Kensington? The Haddonfield and Colorado addresses both look like fairly well off areas, at least from what can be seen from Google Earth (size of houses and space between them). |
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Post by Naj on Nov 18, 2008 12:10:52 GMT -5
Here's another thought regarding "Paul Cooper": In the closing montage, the shadows in the window indicated there were two people in the room. What if the other person was Lilly's estranged sister, Christina? Oooo..... wouldn't that be a weird plot twist? Christina never went to NYC, but instead found their father to live with all these years? Woo - I love it. Boy would Lilly be ticked.  I really liked this episode and felt it had a strong start. I loved the younger Vera! Loved the Free Fallin song enough to buy a copy of it!!! Reminds me of Lara Fabian, a mezza soprano who can sing anything and does so with much critical acclaim over in Europe - appealing to the younger crowds. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Nov 18, 2008 12:12:54 GMT -5
I'm still wondering myself why Lilly's last name is rush not cooper. Better yet, quite possibly the ending song" True Colors" might be a bit foreshadowing of what is to come. Though I'm not mentioning any spoliers here.
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Post by eduardodelroice on Nov 18, 2008 13:49:08 GMT -5
yeah, The Cooper thing is very interesting... We'll see
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toddsmitts
Veteran Detective
WIKI WIKI BOY [/color]
Posts: 611
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Post by toddsmitts on Nov 18, 2008 17:52:08 GMT -5
I'm still wondering myself why Lilly's last name is rush not cooper. Better yet, quite possibly the ending song" True Colors" might be a bit foreshadowing of what is to come. Though I'm not mentioning any spoliers here. I think there's been enough discussion here that few will be surprised when they reveal exactly who Paul Cooper is to Lilly. As for the name thing, the simplest explanation would be that he, for some as-yet-unexplained reason, changed his name. One other thing I don't think anyone's mentioned yet is I found it a little odd that Nadia would be "seen" at the end in her mother's opera dress. This is a bit inconsistent with the arc of her finding her own voice, so to speak. I know some people may not like the reference, but if you recall at the end of "Stand Up and Holler", Joe "sees" Rainey wearing regular clothes, rather than her cheerleader uniform. I suppose you could argue that if the "ghosts" are figments of people's imagination, that they would see them how they want to see them, but still... |
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Collider
Loyal to Look Again
CC Socialite[/color]
Heretic Pride
Posts: 458
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Post by Collider on Nov 18, 2008 18:45:34 GMT -5
One other thing I don't think anyone's mentioned yet is I found it a little odd that Nadia would be "seen" at the end in her mother's opera dress. This is a bit inconsistent with the arc of her finding her own voice, so to speak. I know some people may not like the reference, but if you recall at the end of "Stand Up and Holler", Joe "sees" Rainey wearing regular clothes, rather than her cheerleader uniform. I suppose you could argue that if the "ghosts" are figments of people's imagination, that they would see them how they want to see them, but still... While I do think they could've done a lot more with Nadia's ghost than simply have her standing there... I like the use of her mother's dress in the context of her ghost. I think it makes perfect sense in several different ways. The dress was her mother's - a symbol of her past - of both her familial heritage and her Russian culture - and I think her performance of the Tom Petty / Verdi medley made it pretty clear that Nadia had by the time of her death reconciled her heritage and what it represented with the person she wanted to become. Also, as you said, the people who see the ghost will see them as they want to see them - in SU&H, Joe saw Rainey as he wanted to remember her: someone who didn't conform to the cheerleader stereotype. Likewise, in this episode, Nadia's father saw her as someone who had taken those things that made up her history and her heritage, and become her own person through that. Plus, his wife was dead as well, so perhaps seeing his daughter in her dress implied he'd made peace with his wife's death as well. Two ghosts in one, as it were. But, y'know... I'm not the symbolism person. This is more Boxman's forte, and I'm sure he'll have plenty of interesting stuff to add. Who only knows what it would've symbolised if they'd shown Nadia's ghost drinking coffee? |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Nov 19, 2008 0:04:28 GMT -5
Also just as a side point, I hope no one thought I was being mean or brusque with anyone when I asked why so many people rated this episode so highly. I was merely curious as to what led you to think that way since I obviously didn't. I get the feeling that maybe some of you think I was personally attacking your opinions, which I wasn't. I'm sorry if something I said somehow made you come to that conclusion, it wasn't my intentions. Well I for one wasn't thinking that at all, Electrophile! I'm still a little surprised you didn't give this episode more of a chance. I remember reading last week that you weren't really looking forward to this episode. I wasn't either, and that's what led to a pleasant surprise for me as I watched it. On top of liking the heart and essence of this story, there were many little tidbits that nearly any longtime Cold Case fan should like. You know, like seeing young Vera for the first time, the Lilly's father tease, the Kat blouse...er...tease.... , and Scotty.. uh... "teasingly" holding that cup of coffee up high in the air as if we all should pay attention to it... And I've never been really warm to Vera's character all these years, even with all the "Vera moments" this season, such as the pizza sharing in this episode. However, like many have pointed out, I thought his vodka scene was completely awesome. I think I finally understand the guy enough now to like him a bit more. Similarly, I'm not a big fan of Lilly either; but unlike with Vera, this episode reminded me of one reason why I'm not such a fan of hers: the strange lying she does from time-to-time. This week, with nearly the obvious notion that Paul Cooper is her dad, we can figure she lied last week to Detective McAvoy about having a "long unsolved case", albeit it's probably a minor white lie. Anyway, so with all this, plus the great performances by the guest actors (Elena's singing, Tina Lifford's awesome confession scene), I'm just as surprised that nothing hooked you into the episode.  |
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Post by riche on Nov 19, 2008 5:31:50 GMT -5
This probably should have happened earlier and it's too late now, but for future reference:
Please be careful about posting possible spoilers in a thread outside the board's Spoilers section.
Speculation/analysis based on the episodes seen is fine but those with knowledge of spoilers need to make sure that the discussion is not directed by that information.
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Collider
Loyal to Look Again
CC Socialite[/color]
Heretic Pride
Posts: 458
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Post by Collider on Nov 19, 2008 6:17:50 GMT -5
[...]the Kat blouse...er...tease.... , and Scotty.. uh... "teasingly" holding that cup of coffee up high in the air as if we all should pay attention to it... [...] Similarly, I'm not a big fan of Lilly either; but unlike with Vera, this episode reminded me of one reason why I'm not such a fan of hers: the strange lying she does from time-to-time. Boxman, for both these observations, I could not love you any more than I do right at this moment. |
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zoé
Desk Clerk III
Posts: 118
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Post by zoé on Nov 19, 2008 7:49:05 GMT -5
This week, with nearly the obvious notion that Paul Cooper is her dad, we can figure she lied last week to Detective McAvoy about having a "long unsolved case", albeit it's probably a minor white lie. I would be a bit disappointed if they drop the "long unsolved case" story. Couldn’t this Paul Cooper still be related to a cold case? I am secretly wishing that Lilly’s dad was forced to disappear but that he didn’t mean to abandon his family. And that finding the truth about this while solving a cold case would give some closure to Lilly just like she does for a lot of people… OK, I stop dreaming!  On 2nd viewing of the episode: the doer and the motive came less out of nowhere, but I was feeling bad for all the time and efforts wasted on “Zolotoi”. They apparently did a lot of brainstorming (neat arrangement of post its!), they asked every single person about it, Vera read books about opera... when the first one asked about its meaning knew all along that it wasn't a new lead to solve the case and just needed to “leave the past in the past”. Anyway, I still enjoy it a lot. I have a dumb question, what is the title 'triple threat' referring to? |
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Post by riche on Nov 19, 2008 7:59:06 GMT -5
I have a dumb question, what is the title 'triple threat' referring to? Certainly not a dumb question. Triple Threat seems to be an often used phrase normally to with something/someone that literally has 3 areas in which it/they are strong. Perhaps a player in a team sport that excels in 3 different aspects of the sport. Exactly how they are attaching it to this case, and I assume Nadia herself, I'm not sure. |
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Post by riche on Nov 19, 2008 8:14:10 GMT -5
Scotty.. uh... "teasingly" holding that cup of coffee up high in the air as if we all should pay attention to it... And you keep falling for it ;D He was holding it up to his mouth, so he could drink from it. Which I'm sure signifies a change of some sort. Let's think about this. Scotty quenches his thirst. The cup gets lighter. The coffee is cooling down. So much going on in such a smaller gesture. I'm sure by the end of the season the coffee arc will all become clear ;D Uh? So an ex-cop, talking about a cold case that has stuck with him, asks Lilly if she has any cases like that. She responds that she does and gives a small detail about it. At this point we still don't know what that case maybe and this is a sign she lied? Even going with the assumption that it isn't a case as such, answering the question in that way was hardly lying. She empathised with the ex-cop by keeping the conversation in the terms of a case. Lilly's a fairly secretive person, not talking much about herself or her past, I certainly wouldn't call her a liar. |
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Boxy you found it! 
