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Post by riche on Nov 17, 2008 9:16:42 GMT -5
IShe was poisoned by tea, but how did she get to the bottom of the stairs? Was she pushed? Did she stumble and fall? I was hoping to get some clarification on that, instead it goes from her choking to her at the bottom of the staircase. The teacher grabbed her has she was choking and said "let's get you to the train" so she took her. Exactly what happened after that could have been made clearer, though footsteps running away were heard, but it doesn't really matter too much, the damage was done. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Nov 17, 2008 9:21:07 GMT -5
I really didn't care for this episode, was kind of bland for me. That or I'm not really that into this show anymore. I was surprised that Scotty didn't question Lilly what she was doing, after she had quickly aborted looking up the information.
I did feel for her at the end though.
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Post by Naj on Nov 17, 2008 9:30:38 GMT -5
The cast list is in the first post. And I really don't see how this can be rated one of the season's best. Wednesday's Women....now that was a great episode. Probably the best in the show's history. I can't even imagine putting this on par with that one. Maybe you saw something I didn't, but I just don't get it. Because everyone has thier own favorite(s). For instance, I think Best Friends, The Sleepover, Mind Hunters, Churchgoing People, Hubris (to name a few that I would personally put before Wednesday's Women) far exceed any other episode of the series. There is a thread in the General forum to list your favorite episodes of the series and if you wish can debate the why's up in that forum. Make a new thread if you wish to debate.  |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Nov 17, 2008 10:17:08 GMT -5
I just caught something: when Lilly was autotracking Cooper; his phone number shows up as
555-0178 ; which is or was her cell number that she had given to James Hogan in " Sherry Darling".
More recently this number is quite different on her card that she had given to Marisa back in " The Dealer".
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Collider
Loyal to Look Again
CC Socialite[/color]
Heretic Pride
Posts: 458
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Post by Collider on Nov 17, 2008 11:25:47 GMT -5
I absolutely LOVED this episode, and gave it "one of this season's best" (though I do agree that it's not quite up to the mind-blowing standards set by Wednesday's Women).
Adored the victim, and I kind of feel this is the first time this seaon we've really seen the victim's story fleshed out and develop. Previous episodes, I feel, have focussed too much on scene-setting and giving multiple suspects / aspects to the murder, the character development for the victims themselves has taken to falling short. Not here, though. A fabulous performance by Elena Satine of a character that was wonderfully well-written.
LOVED the Vera contribution. They are really giving him some fabulous stuff to work with this season, and I'm just eating it up. The episodes wherein our detectives have a personal intimacy with a case always always always rank up there among my all-time favourites ("Sanctuary" and "803am" being the obvious two, hehe), and this is right up there with... well, Sanctuary at least. Nothing except WW touches 803, but that's a whole separate thing. I loved that they didn't saturate the story with Vera!Stuff, but that they balanced his own Russian heritage with his intimacy of the family - the conversation (I can't quite bring myself to call it an interrogation) with Leo, I felt, really blended those two very different and yet equally personal aspects of his connection with that case, and it was just utterly breathtaking. For the third week in a row, some stellar work from Jeremy Ratchford.
Also loved the style of the flashbacks - the bright garish colours of the artistic world coupled with the dull greys that littered all of the modern settings.... and, more than almost anything else, the music - the way it was used, the song choices, the placement. Everything. And, of course, Nadia's rendition of "Free Falling"; freakin' AWESOME.
Not even going to bother with the Lilly/Cooper stuff... I'll leave that to the people who actually care enough about Lilly to, well, care... and cellogal already pointed out how awesome the Kat/Scotty poison snark was, so I don't need to spend an entire paragraph giggling squeefully over that... and I think the only other thing I have to add is the utter fabulous believability of Phoebe as a character - her first scene, she utterly won me over with her sincerity, and both of her end interrogations, she again completely convinced me of every single one of her emotions. Yet again, some fabulous acting by Tina Lifford. Actually, I'll even say some pretty damn fabulous acting all round.
So, yea. I think that's all I've got. From me, nothing but pure unadulterated love from beginning to end.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Nov 17, 2008 12:02:23 GMT -5
I rewatched it, but I still wasn't grabbed by the episode; guess I was expecting something a tad different either way I'll still be watching the series. I was more focused on Lilly searching for Cooper than anything else.
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mitchy
Desk Clerk II
Posts: 59
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Post by mitchy on Nov 17, 2008 13:08:02 GMT -5
I'm giving this an excellent. I considered "season's best" but it didn't quite reach the heights of WW for me but it was damn close.
Eee, baby Vera! Excellent double casting and it was so cool to see one of the detectives in uniform, too. They all must have put their time in blues, this was a nice nod back to that history. And wow, is Jeremy Ratchford getting the good stuff recently or what? That vodka scene was out of this world.
Fantastic Kat/Scotty and Kat/Jeffries snark that had me snickering and the late night scene with Lilly, Vera and the pepperoni pizza was wonderful. I agree with the poster who says they're really showing the team's friendships this season and I wholeheartedly agree this is a good thing.
Guest cast was excellent again this week and, as far as I saw, no-one stood out by dint of being a big name casting, so for once the doer was actually tough to pick out. I was initially suspicious of the teacher but was thinking it was the father right until the teacher confessed, so nicely done script writers!
The only weak link was the student on drugs - that was pretty lame for a red herring, out of the reckoning in one interview. I'm guessing that character was solely there to point the finger at the guy teaching the meditation (I never worked out what his job was in the modern day).
So overall, excellent, excellent, excellent! Now can we please see younger Kat so that we have the set? *grin*
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Nov 17, 2008 13:14:55 GMT -5
Adored the victim, and I kind of feel this is the first time this seaon we've really seen the victim's story fleshed out and develop. I agree. I think a really good example of this is in the opening scene at the police department, where Nadia's father couldn't speak a word of English, yet Nadia was fluent enough from watching TV to speak with Vera. It showed at a very subtle level that it was probably more Nadia's idea to move to the US for her future, rather than her father's. After all, we later learn he's left his wife behind in Russia, (and Oh My God! This track "Sadie's Blues" is FANTASTIC!!!) As I was saying, Nadia's dad had left his wife behind for the betterment of his daughter's talents and dreams. Really subtle, and it added a lot of depth to her and her father's character; you know, showing the sacrifices immigrants make when they leave their homelands and other family members to come to the US. Good development! |
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myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on Nov 17, 2008 13:54:40 GMT -5
Anyone around here remembering the motion picture Fame (1980) and the TV-show Fame (1982-1987)? As teenager I was a sucker for that stuff (yeah, me, the anti-romantic one, lol). For sure I had to think of that while watching this episode.
Most had already been said. Lots of great Vera stuff, they did a great job with young Vera. The other detectives though all had their moments too. And have to say, I like how they develop the storyline with Cooper (do remember though, how in earlier seasons we sometimes whined to get only tidbits of Lilly's life every now and then).
I liked the case. Not one of the big stories maybe, but human drama well written and performed. I could very well relate to the story and its protagonists, Nadia, her family, her friend and even Pheobe. Didn't bother me a second, that I guessed early, who the doer was, the development of the drama was interesting watch nevertheless.
What makes this episode an excellent one for me is the combination of elements, of case story, detectives moments, performance, camera, cut, music, music and sound editing. It was a a well orchestrated episode, so to speak, nothing spectacular, just everything worked well together.
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Post by Electrophile on Nov 17, 2008 13:56:58 GMT -5
A couple "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" points. I was glad that the doer wasn't the father or the boyfriend or even the teacher......I think that would have been far too cliched and hokey, and it would have killed what little drama existed there at the end. The fact it was Phoebe, the fact that she was so despondent over Elliot thinking Nadia was the bee's knees and she wasn't, the fact that she knew Nadia was the real deal and she wasn't.....I can to a point understand how full of despair she was. That doesn't excuse poisoning her, but you can almost see the thought process in her mind as she puts the liquid in the tea to give to Nadia.
After watching the episode again, I still rate it an "OK" but a high OK. A second viewing allowed me to connect more with Nadia than the initial viewing did, and I can see how people identified with her so much. She was this young woman who possessed an extraordinary talent and the way she wanted to use it wasn't the way her father wanted her to use it. I think we've all been there in one way or another; family voicing objections to the way we wanted to live our lives or things we wanted to do.
Also just as a side point, I hope no one thought I was being mean or brusque with anyone when I asked why so many people rated this episode so highly. I was merely curious as to what led you to think that way since I obviously didn't. I get the feeling that maybe some of you think I was personally attacking your opinions, which I wasn't. I'm sorry if something I said somehow made you come to that conclusion, it wasn't my intentions.
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Post by riche on Nov 17, 2008 14:19:51 GMT -5
Also just as a side point, I hope no one thought I was being mean or brusque with anyone when I asked why so many people rated this episode so highly. I was merely curious as to what led you to think that way since I obviously didn't. I get the feeling that maybe some of you think I was personally attacking your opinions, which I wasn't. I'm sorry if something I said somehow made you come to that conclusion, it wasn't my intentions. That's OK. The problem, from my perspective at least, was more the number of times you'd asked when very few people had commented. It did come across a little as hectoring, though unintended. Perhaps after giving more people chance to comment you could have re-asked, based on what they'd said. The poll scoring is, by its very nature, limited to reducing an opinion to a small number of fixed option. The written gives more chance for nuanced opinions. |
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Post by riche on Nov 17, 2008 15:19:49 GMT -5
I'm going with excellent, but it was between a good and an excellent. An interesting story etc. I certainly didn't guess the "doer". I actually had my money on the bodyguard the family had when they came off stage. Another overdose, in a good way, of Nick. He's starting to dominate this season a little, but that's OK because he's great. Elena Satine was very good, though I guess the initial operatic performance was sung by someone else and mimed. The rest looked real enough to have been done live on set and not re-dubbed later. Elena appears to have carved herself quite a career in a very short space of time. I wonder if this huge TV exposure might lead her to more success in singing rather than the acting she seems to be doing. Either way, the Russian background and the striking good looks will certainly help her standout from the sea of generic Hollywood blondes, Kathryn is, of course, not included in that  |
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Post by eduardodelroice on Nov 17, 2008 15:23:37 GMT -5
2. never go back to the place she died? when? True Calling and Roller Girl. } I think I remember it from Roller Girl but Renaldo said he never went back to the place Laura die? |
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Post by eduardodelroice on Nov 17, 2008 15:26:03 GMT -5
Adored the victim, and I kind of feel this is the first time this seaon we've really seen the victim's story fleshed out and develop. I agree. I think a really good example of this is in the opening scene at the police department, where Nadia's father couldn't speak a word of English, yet Nadia was fluent enough from watching TV to speak with Vera. It showed at a very subtle level that it was probably more Nadia's idea to move to the US for her future, rather than her father's. After all, we later learn he's left his wife behind in Russia, (and Oh My God! This track "Sadie's Blues" is FANTASTIC!!!) As I was saying, Nadia's dad had left his wife behind for the betterment of his daughter's talents and dreams. Really subtle, and it added a lot of depth to her and her father's character; you know, showing the sacrifices immigrants make when they leave their homelands and other family members to come to the US. Good development! LEFT? Wasnt she dead? |
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Post by eduardodelroice on Nov 17, 2008 15:31:51 GMT -5
I Just watched this one and this is the first time I give an OK this season. Even for The Dealer(the episode so many people hated I gave a Good)
Vera, music, and Cooper Thing was excelent. Nadia's dad was cool too. It was nice to see in the end who saw Nadia's ghost. But what I liked the most is to show how hard is for inmigrants to leave a country and start a new life. I liked how it was shown on the episode... It was really well done. Not too dramatic but with very important details.
I did not like too much the reason why Phoebe killed Nadia/Flashbacks and music(except for final song) were not very good.
It was not bad, Just OK
btw what happened with the casette Nadia taped? I missed that
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Post by Electrophile on Nov 17, 2008 15:36:29 GMT -5
btw what happened with the casette Nadia taped? I missed that She turned it in to Phoebe as it was her final project, and later on the detectives recovered it from her (I assume) and gave it to her father. We see that at the end when Vera is at the bar with Leo and Dmitry. |
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Post by riche on Nov 17, 2008 16:27:03 GMT -5
I was surprised that Scotty didn't question Lilly what she was doing, after she had quickly aborted looking up the information. There is nothing to suggest Scotty saw what she was doing or was at all suspicious. The first we see of Scotty he has his back to her and he is taking off his jacket. He didn't look at her, or glance at the screen after she's walked away. |
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toddsmitts
Veteran Detective
WIKI WIKI BOY [/color]
Posts: 611
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Post by toddsmitts on Nov 17, 2008 18:31:43 GMT -5
She turned it in to Phoebe as it was her final project, and later on the detectives recovered it from her (I assume) and gave it to her father. We see that at the end when Vera is at the bar with Leo and Dmitry. Little odd that she would hold on to something that incriminating all these years, but maybe she just didn't have the heart to get rid of it. I noticed that when the date was given at the start of the episode, they also said "Philadelphia". Rather odd, I thought, since the viewer probably assumes they're in Philly unless it explicitly gives another location such as in "Discretion" or "Family 8108". |
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Post by riche on Nov 17, 2008 18:35:58 GMT -5
I noticed that when the date was given at the start of the episode, they also said "Philadelphia". Rather odd, I thought, since the viewer probably assumes they're in Philly unless it explicitly gives another location such as in "Discretion" or "Family 8108". I would guess that because of the rather unusual setting and what follows, they wanted to make it clear that girl and her family were already in Philly. |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Nov 17, 2008 18:51:07 GMT -5
Yeah. Given the way the family defected to the US with virtually nothing, it's highly unlikely Mr Koslov brought his wife's remains with them to the US. Remember now, the US and Russia didn't have good relations until the early 1990s, so the Koslov's decision to come to the US in 1989 was a one-way trip. When they sneaked out of the theater, they did so knowing that they may never be able to go back to Russia ever again (to visit her grave or whatever). |
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