Ep. 4.02 The War at Home

[The Reverend Bizarre]

boxman

More symbolism? Lol, the only symbol I really noticed was the necklace Kat was wearing around the beginning, and I've been trying to figure out what it was.

I believe there was another symbol too. Children which usually symbolizes innocence, except obviously they used this symbol in a more opposite light.

@ longislanditalian2

I have to agree, I don't think Joseph really cares about that, that Lilly can't cook, etc. The question is, does Lilly herself know this?

I also thought of something. Someone said that Joseph represents Lilly's good side, and Ray will be representing her darkside. Perhaps the reason why Joseph is so sickenly sweet and nice, is because he's portraying an exaggeration of Lilly's lighter side.

[longislanditalian2]

I don't know if Lilly knows this but he certainly knew when to stop talking. I think Joseph might all be sweet and nice he might have another side that hasn't been explored yet.
Joseph might think communication is more important then cooking to him.
Kat was wearing a huge cross on her neck , plus the fact Veronica was in the car and there was water surrounding her , hmm that to me is symbolism right there.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

It was a differant type of cross though, for some reason it looked like the cross of Odin. (which makes no sense.)

[Ju]

I voted excellent for this eppy!! Very touching, great actors (especially the little girls) and good songs. Scotty had some great lines and seems that he gets along well with his family (better than Lilly, anyway).

About Joseph, he was the one who should be cooking breakfast for her. I mean, it would fit better this way: she leaves to work and he's in charge of the house keeping duties. Anyway, I really don't care if he has a job, if he has a place of his own, if he spends his days petting the cats and the nights "playing doctor" with Lilly (that's how Vera would say it ;D ). He won't last much, so why develop his character? He had his own eppy, his own case and that's all. Scotty's bro soap drama is enough for now.

[Naj]

My impression is that she doesn't know how to cook. She was just trying to make something on behalf of the fact that he was with her. ;D

jazzyb said:

What exactly was that mess in the pan she was trying to cook? At first glance I thought it was pancakes but how can you mess up pancakes? Next time she should try the microwave.
I'm getting sick of seeing Joseph with those *%%&& cats! He needs to get a job!!

Ju said:

I mean, it would fit better this way: she leaves to work and he's in charge of the house keeping duties. Anyway, I really don't care if he has a job, if he has a place of his own, if he spends his days petting the cats and the nights "playing doctor" with Lilly (that's how Vera would say it ). He won't last much, so why develop his character? He had his own eppy, his own case and that's all. Scotty's bro soap drama is enough for now

Um...err... Okay. But I still want to know what Lil's up to. Even if this is all fleeting and she can't cook.

[longislanditalian2]

I think it's sometimes hard to know what Lilly is truely feeling deep down inside. One question when Lilly was taking the burned up pancakes into the sink, why didn't Joseph give her a kiss or wrap his arms around her , instead of holding Olivia? I thought that was strange if two people are in love with each other and living together why not, also the fact that they are in the first stages of their relationship ?

[michelle]

I find it very easy to guess what Lilly is feeling. And I have no doubt, if Joesph had tried to hug her or get close to her, she would have pushed him away, said something incredibly hurtful to prove she didn't care one way or the other and then frozen him out.

[longislanditalian2]

Now i'm confused in the last episode he's kissing her and Lilly's kissing him back. What changed in this episode that made Joseph not want to kiss her good morning, I think it's rude that he doesn't even do that.

[TVFan]

I think it's just a change in mood LII. Last week, the two were gettin' frisky, but this week Lilly was frustrated with her failed attempt at pancakes. They're two completely different "moods" if you will. There are times when it's appropriate to throw your arms around someone and times when it's not. I think Joseph knows the difference when it comes to Lil. I also think it's way premature to say that either is "in love." Joseph may be able to give his heart that freely (and may actually feel that way about Lil), but there's no way IMO that Lilly is that deep yet. I think it takes her a while to truly fall in love with someone. Her past is all too familiar to her.

[LillyKat]

tvfan said:

I think it's just a change in mood LII. Last week, the two were gettin' frisky, but this week Lilly was frustrated with her failed attempt at pancakes. They're two completely different "moods" if you will. There are times when it's appropriate to throw your arms around someone and times when it's not. I think Joseph knows the difference when it comes to Lil. I also think it's way premature to say that either is "in love." Joseph may be able to give his heart that freely (and may actually feel that way about Lil), but there's no way IMO that Lilly is that deep yet. I think it takes her a while to truly fall in love with someone. Her past is all too familiar to her.

Well said, TVFan. I agree. No one is lovey/dovey with their partner every single moment of every day. Lilly's going to have her moods - which can be triggered by random things. And it's a guess on my part, but I personally believe more time has elapsed between the two of them than has been show to us; thus, perhaps Joseph has figured out when to keep his distance, when to press her, when to ask, etc. I rewatched this scene, and it was Lilly who started the whole thing - with the "pack your bags and leave / you wouldn't be the first" line. Before that, it was just sarcastic banter going back and forth between the two. She took the whole conversation in a different direction with that line, and arguably, put him on the spot to respond. My personal feeling is he sensed he could ask at that precise moment, based on perhaps how he's getting to know her (which, as I view it, is to be implied, not necessarily carried out in real time). That is JMHO.

I also think The Reverend Bizarre made an excellent point in regards to speculating on Lilly's fear of abandonment, and how she perhaps sees her failure of not being "domestic" / traditional as a detriment to any relationship in which she finds herself. I personally think it's a misperception on her part because Joseph has yet to reveal he's interested in June Cleaver for a partner, or that he expects some sort of "traditional" girl. I don't believe he would be with Lilly in the first place if he wanted Nice Nancy Nextdoor or Hannah Happily Ever After.

Nonetheless, I like the idea that she's struggling with how she is in the relationship, not him. I personally would like to see Lilly continue to struggle with it, but ultimately come to terms with the fact that she could be loved even with her deepest flaws / issues. A hard lesson for someone like Lilly to learn and accept - perhaps improbable, but not impossible, IMHO.

I continue to enjoy watching it play out.

[tiger_lilly]

lillykat said:

I don't believe he would be with Lilly in the first place if he wanted Nice Nancy Nextdoor or Hannah Happily Ever After.

Great names LillyKat!

I agree with you guys. No one is all smoochy and huggy all the time. Yuck!

[longislanditalian2]

Does anyone think that they had a fight and this scene was just a tidbit of that.
What did Joseph say after " Did he show".

[The Reverend Bizarre]

My other idea is that actually Lilly is an asexual, (no attraction to either gender) and just hasn't said anything yet.

[longislanditalian2]

@the reverend Bizzare- I think Lilly is straight but maybe she was abused as a child and can't trust anyone. I think she wants to Love Joseph but is scared that he might hurt her

[The Reverend Bizarre]

I have to apologize, sometimes my satirical nature can get the best of me. I do agree with the idea that Lilly was abused as a child.

[longislanditalian2]

Lilly's is hurting deep down inside, someone must have really hurt her badly. I can't all be from when her dad left.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

In "Beautiful Little Fool" her mom said at one point that Lilly broke her jaw when she fell. To which Lilly replies (and rather bitterly) that she didn't fall.

Now, I don't believe in the jaw breaking fairy so that leaves only one other option.

[boxman]

xuchilbara said:

It was a differant type of cross though, for some reason it looked like the cross of Odin. (which makes no sense.)

Wow! Actually, it does make sense!! As an "upside-down cross" it follows the strange phenomenon that Kat is usually surrounded by negative symbols! Good catch!! .... and Verry Strange!!

michelle said:

I'm thinking the only reason Lilly didn't throw that spatula at Joseph was cause he was holding Olivia. Maybe that's why he's always got a cat. I sense a big blowup coming in a future episode. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Ha ha ha.... You know, I can see that happening too! On one hand, I think Lilly came across a guy that can potentially be good for her. I can see the reasons why Lilly would be attracted to Joe. But what are the reasons why a guy like Joe would be attracted to Lilly?? Is it because she's pretty much the first girl he comes across after being holed-up in his country home?? Is it because this "Homicide Barbie handgun and handcuffs" lady kinda turns him on?? I was thinking that Joseph is probably very used to having a position of status or authority. He was a councillor to teens/young adults. He was probably the lead councillor at the center. He played older brother to Wilder, his drug-addict brother. What if... What if he's a bit like Scotty...always looking for the 'needy' type of female that he can 'nurse'?? You know, the kind of guy that looks for "damaged goods" so he can have his own, personal fixer-upper?? It would make sense, given that he's a councillor.... But I think that would be sooo disaterous!! At the same time, it makes sense that this could be the reason why he's smoochy and sensitive and able to pick up on Lilly's little vibes... Or do you think that Joseph will be treating Lilly as an 'equal' in the relationship?? Hmmm...

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Wow! Actually, it does make sense!! As an "upside-down cross" it follows the strange phenomenon that Kat is usually surrounded by negative symbols! Good catch!! .... and Verry Strange!!

What I find strange is that the cross of Odin is often worn by people of the Odinistic religion, and people of the Ayran race. So why Kat is wearing it is rather odd.

But then again the inverted cross, while being a sign of evil is used by a sect of Christianity. It is said that one of the disciples was crucified on an inverted cross.

[myril]

longislanditalian2 said:

Lilly's is hurting deep down inside, someone must have really hurt her badly. I can't all be from when her dad left.

Guess not, but her dad leaving started the drama. We don't know much about how, we don't know, if Ellen started drinking before or after (I tend to guess the latter), but I know as a six year old you feel easily responsible if your dad is leaving, no matter why. And you miss your dad (if he wasn't a total jerk, but even then eventually) It's sure not getting better if your mum messes up and is a drinker, if you as the eldest take care as good as possible for what is left of your family and are attacked as a ten year old, beaten up and harrased by a stranger(?). Things like that can teach you to be tough and occasional cynical on the outside but in the inside there is still that little girl, confused and wishing for support and security and the love of parents. No surprise to me, that Lilly is giving some very mixed signals. There was not a single one hurting Lilly so badly, there were some.

@reverend Bizarre. Not sure if it was mentioned explicit, but so far I thought, that the jaw breaking story was a reference to the attack on Lilly as 10year old.

And I like your theory of Lilly being sort of asexual. For one, because it would be something new on TV. Second, there are people in r/l not as sexual vibrant as average seems to be or to whom sex is something quite unimportant in a way - and those people are not frigid. The reason is not always abuse though. But I'm pretty sure, that's not what they would head for with Lilly's character.

boxman - interesting thoughts about Joseph. Though if, it would be something going on a more subconscious level. But don't think he is actually looking for a needy type. He senses the strength and the pain in Lilly and that mix is interesting, I guess, something he might know pretty well himself. So think he wants to see her more as an equal.

It's strange, but sometimes have the impression, certain types of men are especially drawn to strong women having issues. Either to conquer them (sorry, no offence guys), or to find a woman equal to them, or to find someone finally protecting them like a mother should do? And sometimes it's like they want all of it at the same time, sulking if they don't get a chance to be supportive or protective, but still expecting that woman to be strong all time. Know what I mean? Uhm, sorry, might go off topic. Was just musing about that while thinking about the discussion about Kite and Joseph.