Ep 6.21 November 22

[irishkale]

THE TEAM REOPENS THE CASE OF A POOL HUSTLER WHO WAS FATALLY SHOT THE SAME DAY AS PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY, ON "COLD CASE," SUNDAY, APRIL 26

Eion Bailey ("Band of Brothers," "ER") Guest Stars as the Slain Pool Hustler

Academy Award Nominee and Golden Globe Nominee Tess Harper ("Crimes of the Heart," "Tender Mercies") and Emmy Award Winner and Multiple Emmy Award Nominee Kay Lenz ("Midnight Caller," "Reasonable Doubts") Guest Star as Former Acquaintances Of the Victim Who Are Questioned by the Team

"November 22" - The team reopens a 1963 murder case of a nomadic pool hustler when the long-hidden murder weapon is found during the renovation of a pool hall where the victim played days before his death, COLD CASE, Sunday, April 26 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

SERIES REGULARS:

Lilly Rush: Kathryn Morris
Scotty Valens: Danny Pino
Lt. John Stillman: John Finn
Nick Vera: Jeremy Ratchford
Will Jeffries: Thom Barry
Kat Miller: Tracie Thoms

RECURRING CAST :

Paul Cooper: Raymond J. Barry

GUEST CAST:

Patrick "The Rifle" Lennox (1963): Eion Bailey
Hillary Rhodes (1963): Madeline Carroll
Hillary Rhodes (2009): Kay Lenz
Sharon Lertola (1963): Valerie Azlynn
Sharon Lertola (2009): Tess Harper
John "The Doctor" Norwood (1963): Channon Roe
John "The Doctor" Norwood (2009): Muse Watson
Mike "Monkey" Mack (1963): Brian Elerding
Mike "Monkey" Mack (2009): Bill Bolender
Al "Baltimore Red" Soddenheim (1963): Billy Jayne
Al "Baltimore Red" Soddenheim (2009): John Bennett Perry
Tom Puckett: P.J. Marino
The Duke (1963): Lucas Caleb Rooney
Ben Scavo (1963): Kevin Makely
Bartender (1963): Michael McKiddy
Opponent (1963): Nick Hoffa
Woman (1963): Lora Witty

WRITTEN BY: Ryan Farley

DIRECTED BY: Jeannot Szwarc

Thread & Poll are locked until April 26th. For Pre-Air episode discussion, see our "Spoilers" forum (available to registered users.)

[longislanditalian2]

I gave it a " Good", but what really grabbed me was the Lilly/Dad drama. First of all, Paul really needs to give a reasons to why he's not telling his kids about her. Second the reason for him leaving; well he didn't abadond her at all. Yes Paul made a poor choice, but I think the real reason why Lilly got all angry is that she still is suffering from not from him leaving but for what her mother had done; abadoning her at times etc.

Both Kathryn Morris and Raymond J. Barry did an outstanding job in those scenes together..

Lilly did connect really well with Hilary, which was turning point in the case. The gang at the end playing pool was pretty neat. As for the doer I think all along it had to be Sharon. She looked like trouble from the very beginning.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

I gave it an ok. It really didn't grip me like some of the other episodes.

On the other hand, if the information that Paul gave is accurate, then we now have a close age for him and Lily.

Paul was 19 on November 22nd, 1963. Placing his date of birth sometime in 1944. This makes him 65 years old.

During that scene between him and Lilly he says something about letting go of the events that happened 30 years ago. If this is so, then Paul left Lilly in 1979, when she was age 6.

Therefore this would set her year of birth as 1973, which would make her 36 years old.

[eduardodelroice]

Apr 26, 2009 22:03:08 GMT -5 The Reverend Bizarre said:

I gave it an ok. It really didn't grip me like some of the other episodes.

On the other hand, if the information that Paul gave is accurate, then we now have a close age for him and Lily.

Paul was 19 on November 22nd, 1963. Placing his date of birth sometime in 1944. This makes him 65 years old.

During that scene between him and Lilly he says something about letting go of the events that happened 30 years ago. If this is so, then Paul left Lilly in 1979, when she was age 6.

Therefore this would set her year of birth as 1973, which would make her 36 years old.

I think 30 was an average number he said. Lilly has to be older than 36.
Lilly was 6 aprox(my theory) in 1975- she was born in 1969- she's 40 too

[boxman]

Only two "OKs" so far? Aww... This episode actually started on-time, so I caught it from half-way, then had to watch it again on my DVR. The coincidental date of this murder and JFK's assassination did distract me, and I was unsure if it was necessary in this story. I still thought it was good and liked how the episode's paternal theme tied into Lilly and Cooper's side story. Again, Cold Case ties the main story and side stories quite well and "November 22" is no exception. It also kinda brought in Stillman into the paternal theme with the camera shots and editing during Hillary's interview. We can note too how Stillman was there to see Lilly brush off Cooper, again an interesting twist on the paternal theme. I thought how the story left the question of how Sharon got the $2000 open-ended was a nice way to deal with that. We don't need to know! But it clearly helped in understanding her emotional state and motive for shooting Patrick.

Apr 26, 2009 22:03:08 GMT -5 The Reverend Bizarre said:

...Therefore this would set her year of birth as 1973, which would make her 36 years old.

Good math!!

I haven't seen any of Kay Lenz's recent stuff at all, so it was a surprise to see her in the episode. Even though she's done a lot of things in her acting career, I totally remember Kay for her appearance in Rod Stewart's "Infatuation" video from MTV's early days:

What young guy wouldn't remember that?? Gosh, that was so many years ago!!

I'm really looking forward to the next two episodes! Stone Temple Pilots is actually my most favorite grunge band from that time, but I have absolutely nothing to complain about two episodes featuring Pearl Jam's music.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

@ €duardo Del Roic€ - The problem with Lily being born in 1969, is that Paul would have only been 25. While this is a suitable age for a guy to sire a child, there are some reasons why I don't think Paul fathered Lily at that age.

He's 19 in 1963, and 65 now. Now let's see. If Lily was born in 1969 then that would make her 39 or 40. If she was born in 1973 that would make her 35 -36. I think it's a matter of trying to determine when Paul and Lilly's mom conceived Lily

[eduardodelroice]

Apr 26, 2009 23:54:19 GMT -5 The Reverend Bizarre said:

@ €duardo Del Roic€ - The problem with Lily being born in 1969, is that Paul would have only been 25. While this is a suitable age for a guy to sire a child, there are some reasons why I don't think Paul fathered Lily at that age.

He's 19 in 1963, and 65 now. Now let's see. If Lily was born in 1969 then that would make her 39 or 40. If she was born in 1973 that would make her 35 -36. I think it's a matter of trying to determine when Paul and Lilly's mom conceived Lily

IDK but I don't think Lilly is that young. If I'm correct. Lilly said in the episode Volunteers that she was born in late 60's

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Did she? I haven't seen that episode before but, 36 really isn't that young.

[toddsmitts]

Apr 27, 2009 0:32:38 GMT -5 The Reverend Bizarre said:

Did she? I haven't seen that episode before but, 36 really isn't that young.

Technically no she didn't, but it was implied in a conversation with Scotty:

Lilly: 1969, you weren't even born yet, right?
Scotty: The world had to wait till the 70's for me.

That sort of implies she was alive in 1969. Admittedly though, as mentioned in other threads, they haven't always been consistent with people's ages (Jeffries and Janie Stillman), so take an off-hand remark like that with a grain of salt, especially coming from a relatively early episode in the show's run. I did use this (and KM's real-life age) when I needed to calculate a more specific age for Lilly for a story, however.

Now, talking about the episode itself:

-First I'll tell you something really weird. I was actually planning a story involving the murder of a pool hustler in the 60's when I found out this was being made. There were some eerie similarities to what I'd planned: The teaser where the "easy mark" turns out to be a hustler taking the cocky player for a ride, the victim playing a high-stakes game with a master before deciding to walk away and not let the game consume him, and getting shot soon after by a female acquaintance (albeit under different circumstances). Does CC have a mind-link to my head?

-How long has it been since there was a female-on-male homicide? Not counting "Lotto Fever" (just accessory) and "The Good Death" (assisted suicide), I don't think we've had one since "Cargo" two years ago, which was also the third-to-last ep of the season (if you count the upcoming two-parter as two and not one), also had a subplot with Lilly and parent, and ALSO was similar to an idea I'd been planning when it came on.

-The doer was a tad predictable. As I mentioned in the "Stealing Home" thread, whenever a character is supposedly indifferent to something at first, it's a good sign they care more than they're letting on and that they're the doer. Also, using a gun and not dumping the body meant physical strength wasn't an issue. Add to that, the fact that she didn't bond with the kid Hillary at all was a good sign she wasn't gonna be part of Rifle's life much longer.

-I said a tad predictable, but not completely so. Until we actually saw Sharon's older self, I suspected Doc, though that had more to do with casting. I'd seen Channon Roe in "Boogie Nights" and an episode of "Buffy", both of which had him playing very unfriendly characters. Add to that, Muse Watson is well-known for his roles on "Prison Break" and "NCIS" (not to mention menacing Jennifer Love Hewitt with a hook in the "I Know What You Did Last Summer" movies!). With all that, I could have seen them taking the "Law & Order" route and making the best known actor the doer. Glad they didn't though. By the way, is it me, or does the sixty year old Muse Watson look way too young to hanging around a retirement home?

-Here's something you don't see everyday: Madeline Carroll, who played the little girl Hillary has apparently been on the show before. She played Gwen Deamer, the victim's daughter in "Gleen". This is a rather big deal, considering the show typically doesn't recycle guest actors like most other shows do. The only other example I know of is the actress, who played the victim in "Superstar", also having a bit part in "A Time to Hate". In both cases, Madeline played a "daughter" (sort of) to the victim and sees them at the end.

-I usually prefer to talk about the case itself, whereas most people here probably prefer whatever subplot they have involving Lilly's personal life, but I'll indulge you here. I'm pretty confident Cooper is holding back some secret, supposedly for Lilly's own good. Guess we'll see if I'm right in a week (or maybe two weeks?)

-Anyone recognize any other guest actors? Besides the aforementioned ones, Valerie Azlynn (Sharon) was just on "The Big Bang Theory" playing a new girl in the building who quickly becomes a rival to Penny for the boys' attention. Speaking of nerdy stuff, any "Star Trek" fans here? Bill Bolender (Monkey) played a badguy called "The Albino" in a memorable "Deep Space Nine" episode called "Blood Oath" which brought back three original Klingons from the Original Series.

That's all I got for now!

[irishkale]

I gave this one an "excellent."

Overall the basic framework of the storyline was complicated enough to keep the who/what details hidden up until the very end. Within that framework, the little subplots were well handled, too. The mystery of who is "Baltimore Red." The mystery of the little girl who shows up suddenly. The relationships between Patrick & Sharon, Patrick & "Monkey" were interesting side stories. Although I did have to use the rewind button on my TiVo to catch peoples' names, I do appreciate the effort of the writer to make the episode very "thick" with subplots.

The atmosphere of the "pool hall" was very well done. I liked that they kept the "1963" references at a minimum. In past seasons whenever they did a 50's or 60's episode, they would lay it on thick with over-the-top costumes, music, pop-culture references, and lingo of the time, to the point of being a "caricature." This episode was nearly the opposite of that -- the costumes and sets were very minimilistic and sparse. To me the 1963 scenes felt like a "stage play" because we saw Patrick mostly in the one-room environment of the pool hall.

I think keeping it minimilistic allowed the characters to shine through. I liked the Patrick character enough that I didn't want to see him die in the end. But the shining character in this one was the character of the long-lost daughter. I loved the character of "Hillary" and I think the episode really took off when she showed up. The young actress in that role was awesome.

The music also had alot to do with why I enjoyed the episode. Finally we get an episode that uses jazz music. It created such a great atmosphere for the pool matches. That sequence with Baltimore Red & Patrick at the end was really awesome, with great music and great editing with the crossfades. I'm not sure about this, but I'm wondering if alot of the music was Michael Levine originals. I guess I'll find out later. The final montage was just beautifully done and I loved the song during it. It was so cool. Doesn't seeing "the gang" all together having fun leave you with a warm, happy feeling? It did for me.

Rush & Cooper: More Lilly angst! Although I didn't mind it as much. I always suspected that Cooper had an undercurrent of darkness in him. He just seemed too nice. I liked that Lilly challenged him on it. And she gave back his medallion! The scene between Lilly & Cooper was really great acting on both parties. I liked it that they made Lilly mad and assertive rather than being weepy and weak.


Other Random notes:
--the actor who played the victim was in "Mindhunters (2004 movie)" with KM!

--Kay Lenz --> Kathryn, do not get bad plastic surgery on your face like Kay Lenz!

--The actress who played Hilary ALSO played the young "Gwen Deamer" in episode 1.02 "Gleen." CC did a double-dip! I had to look this up, Todd... I thought the girl looked familar, but I was thinking she was the girl who was in the Silent Hill movies

--Billy Jayne, the actor who played "Baltimore Red" is notoriously funny in one of my favorite summer teen movies - 1985's "Just One of the Guys."

--Channon Roe --> I missed this one too, Todd. "Boogie Nights" is one of my favorite movies and I didn't recognize him while watching the ep. Now I remember who he was in the film

[eduardodelroice]

Apr 27, 2009 1:40:12 GMT -5 toddsmitts said:

Apr 27, 2009 0:32:38 GMT -5 The Reverend Bizarre said:

Did she? I haven't seen that episode before but, 36 really isn't that young.

Technically no she didn't, but it was implied in a conversation with Scotty:

Lilly: 1969, you weren't even born yet, right?
Scotty: The world had to wait till the 70's for me.

That sort of implies she was alive in 1969. Admittedly though, as mentioned in other threads, they haven't always been consistent with people's ages (Jeffries and Janie Stillman), so take an off-hand remark like that with a grain of salt, especially coming from a relatively early episode in the show's run. I did use this (and KM's real-life age) when I needed to calculate a more specific age for Lilly for a story, however.

These writers... But now I understood: They don't get paid very well but I still support the theory Lilly is 40

Apr 27, 2009 1:40:12 GMT -5 toddsmitts said:

-How long has it been since there was a female-on-male homicide? Not counting "Lotto Fever" (just accessory) and "The Good Death" (assisted suicide), I don't think we've had one since "Cargo" two years ago, which was also the third-to-last ep of the season (if you count the upcoming two-parter as two and not one), also had a subplot with Lilly and parent, and ALSO was similar to an idea I'd been planning when it came on.

You forget Gloria on Wings and Phoebe from Triple Threat. Pam from Lotto Fever wasn't an accessory. Also, the doctor from The Ghost of my child. The girls from That Woman and others from season 5.

Apr 27, 2009 1:40:12 GMT -5 toddsmitts said:

-Here's something you don't see everyday: Madeline Carroll, who played the little girl Hillary has apparently been on the show before. She played Gwen Deamer, the victim's daughter in "Gleen". This is a rather big deal, considering the show typically doesn't recycle guest actors like most other shows do. The only other example I know of is the actress, who played the victim in "Superstar", also having a bit part in "A Time to Hate". In both cases, Madeline played a "daughter" (sort of) to the victim and sees them at the end.

Yes, The difference is that Madeline has played 2 important roles while Alicia Zegler on A time to hate wasn't an important character.
What other shows recycle actors??? Just cuious

Apr 27, 2009 1:40:12 GMT -5 toddsmitts said:

-I usually prefer to talk about the case itself, whereas most people here probably prefer whatever subplot they have involving Lilly's personal life, but I'll indulge you here. I'm pretty confident Cooper is holding back some secret, supposedly for Lilly's own good. Guess we'll see if I'm right in a week (or maybe two weeks?)

I am hating Cooper. irishkale told me Cooper could be a mob or criminal. I thought not but now I think it could be that way... and maybe that was the reason why he abbandoned Lilly

Apr 27, 2009 2:07:16 GMT -5 irishkale said:

Rush & Cooper: More Lilly angst! Although I didn't mind it as much. I always suspected that Cooper had an undercurrent of darkness in him. He just seemed too nice. I liked that Lilly challenged him on it. And she gave back his medallion! The scene between Lilly & Cooper was really great acting on both parties. I liked it that they made Lilly mad and assertive rather than being weepy and weak.

Oh yeah! Spoilers for me. I am gonna watch this tomorrow!
I dont like Cooper and I think you were right Irishkale

[ali]

Excellent.

The sixties, pool and jazz: such a great combination! I loved the atmospheres of the flashbaks, and in general the story was quite good (but sometimes I lost the thread...I'm waiting for subtitles to understand some -little- details ;D); I also liked the characterso of Patrick and Hillary in 1963.

About Lilly and Cooper: thumbs-up to the great performance of Kathryn Morris and Raymond J. Barry!

Before saying what I think about Cooper, I want to make it clear first that when a new character join the show I look at him with open mind and I don't say "I like him"/"I hate him" after the first impression, and I always distinguish between "the character in the plot" and "the character himself".

As "character in the plot", Paul Cooper is, in my opinion, a great character. The writers decided to introduce Lilly's father in the show: an hazard, because it's a very important character in Lilly's life, but they did it well, and the presence of Cooper in the show is now a necessary condition.

As "character himself", I've got contrasting opinions. Surely, he left Lilly, and he is hiding something of him past, but he loves her.
What we knew about him was that he left Lilly when she was six, something that put Cooper in a bad light a priori: predictably, in the past episodes, Lilly was kind of distrustful with his father, and I was expecting a sort of coupe the theatre in the low-growing relationship between them, something that finally happened in this episode, and will be solved in the finale, when we will probably know what are those "some thing" that are not Lilly's "damn business".

PS: in my opinion, Lilly's age is between 36 a 40! ;D

[longislanditalian2]

I really disagree about Cooper abadoning Lilly, he didn't but for some odd reason he isn't tell her why he had left. First of all her, what if he got together with Ellen and she already had Lilly but she was still a very young baby. That would support the reason behind that there wasn't any child support that we've heard about.

Second what if this had nothing to do with Ellen herself? Paul does love Lilly, and want's nothing but a good relationship with her. Abadoning her isn't something I think he'd do, he just left. Perhaps his life was in danger or he did it to protect the family. What if the reason why Paul says it's complicated is because maybe he doesn't know if Lilly is his daughter; biologically???

I have to agree with him, there are somethings that a parent won't tell their child. Lilly isn't used to playing a daughter, all her life she's always played the parent role to Ellen Rush. Now with her dead, and finding her father she can't sort out that her role isn't that anymore.

Paul is right, she's got to let that go. He wants nothing more than to be a loving father to her, at the end I did feel for him. The look he gave her, Paul does feel guilty of leaving his daughter. Stillman standing there, what if he's thinking about what happened to him divorcing his wife, and being seperated from his own daughter as well.

Or is Stillman really Lilly's father???

[eduardodelroice]

Apr 27, 2009 6:20:09 GMT -5 longislanditalian2 said:

Or is Stillman really Lilly's father???

I don't think so, That's be so soap opera

[toddsmitts]

Apr 27, 2009 2:10:33 GMT -5 @eduardodelroice said:

Apr 27, 2009 1:40:12 GMT -5 toddsmitts said:

Technically no she didn't, but it was implied in a conversation with Scotty:

Lilly: 1969, you weren't even born yet, right?
Scotty: The world had to wait till the 70's for me.

That sort of implies she was alive in 1969. Admittedly though, as mentioned in other threads, they haven't always been consistent with people's ages (Jeffries and Janie Stillman), so take an off-hand remark like that with a grain of salt, especially coming from a relatively early episode in the show's run. I did use this (and KM's real-life age) when I needed to calculate a more specific age for Lilly for a story, however.

These writers... But now I understood: They don't get paid very well but I still support the theory Lilly is 40

Yeah, about that. Give or take a few months.

Apr 27, 2009 2:10:33 GMT -5 @eduardodelroice said:

You forget Gloria on Wings and Phoebe from Triple Threat. Pam from Lotto Fever wasn't an accessory. Also, the doctor from The Ghost of my child. The girls from That Woman and others from season 5.

No I didn't. I said female on male homicide. Very rare on CC. Only about a handful of examples. More often a female doer will kill a female victim.

Apr 27, 2009 2:10:33 GMT -5 @eduardodelroice said:

Yes, The difference is that Madeline has played 2 important roles while Alicia Zegler on A time to hate wasn't an important character.
What other shows recycle actors??? Just cuious

Law & Orders does A LOT. Star Trek did. NYPD Blue did. Too many other examples to count.

Apr 27, 2009 2:10:33 GMT -5 @eduardodelroice said:

I am hating Cooper. irishkale told me Cooper could be a mob or criminal. I thought not but now I think it could be that way... and maybe that was the reason why he abbandoned Lilly

I don't buy that.

[longislanditalian2]

Complicated, I didn't buy that whole line from Cooper. Complicated in what why, now your setting yourself up for a bad omen, especially if your daughter is Lilly Rush. Cooper should have just told her, in a more simplified story. No he had to keep everything from her, what if he's someone trying to protect her but it's doing more bad than good.

At the end, Cooper does see that she's clearly hurting and Lilly isn't afraid to show that. Even Stillman took notice as well.

[eduardodelroice]

Apr 27, 2009 7:24:12 GMT -5 toddsmitts said:

Apr 27, 2009 2:10:33 GMT -5 @eduardodelroice said:

These writers... But now I understood: They don't get paid very well but I still support the theory Lilly is 40

Yeah, about that. Give or take a few months.



No I didn't. I said female on male homicide. Very rare on CC. Only about a handful of examples. More often a female doer will kill a female victim.




Law & Orders does A LOT. Star Trek did. NYPD Blue did. Too many other examples to count.

Apr 27, 2009 2:10:33 GMT -5 @eduardodelroice said:

I am hating Cooper. irishkale told me Cooper could be a mob or criminal. I thought not but now I think it could be that way... and maybe that was the reason why he abbandoned Lilly

I don't buy that.

1. OK. I did not understand the female on male homicide
2. I dont like when shows recycle actors
3. Cooper is hiding something

[longislanditalian2]

Actually a lot of shows Recycle actors( X-files etc..) that's actually not that bad.. Cooper is hiding something that he had to go through a lot of trouble to hide from Lilly, hmm I still don't think it has anything to do with the late Ellen Rush.

[eduardodelroice]

Apr 27, 2009 7:56:50 GMT -5 longislanditalian2 said:

Actually a lot of shows Recycle actors( X-files etc..) that's actually not that bad.. Cooper is hiding something that he had to go through a lot of trouble to hide from Lilly, hmm I still don't think it has anything to do with the late Ellen Rush.

I thought Irishkale was wrong but maybe he isn't. Cooper might be a gangster

[longislanditalian2]

I doubt that cooper was a gangster, doesn't strike me as the type