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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 1, 2007 15:56:43 GMT -5
Who thinks that Scotty shot Lil, I got the impression during this episode for some reason. As for the drinking I think she just said that to cover up the fact that she is alone
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Post by riche on Oct 1, 2007 15:57:14 GMT -5
Agreed. I'm not sure she was out drinking, which is even more worrying. Heading the way of her mother perhaps. As her boss, mentor and father figure he was bound to feel bad about Lilly's shooting. That's our Lilly  The "I've seen her before" thing had me suspecting Tina early on, plus the kind of prudish Hollier-than-thou aspect. As the show continued I shifted my suspicions to the other possible suspects but at some point I did begin to wonder if they all played a part. I did consider that by not being able to pin it on any one of them they may get away with it collectively. One thing struck me: Carrie complained about her clothes being too sexy. Why didn't she do something about this? Aren't teenage girls forever leaving the house dressed the way their mother wants (uniforms, long skirts etc.) and arriving at school in mini-skirts etc. Surely a teenage girl could do the opposite in this situation, dressing down and covering? |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Oct 1, 2007 16:10:34 GMT -5
I doubt Lilly is drinking, seriously since she is all about justice to her victims. Plus she had full concentration on the case; which when Scotty was drinking he wasn't.
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LillyKat
Lilly Rush
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Post by LillyKat on Oct 1, 2007 16:49:03 GMT -5
I doubt Lilly is drinking, seriously since she is all about justice to her victims. Plus she had full concentration on the case; which when Scotty was drinking he wasn't. I'm not sure she was out drinking, which is even more worrying. Heading the way of her mother perhaps. Unless I was really sleepy, in that opening banter, when Kat and Vera grill Lilly as to where she was/after she says "out with friends," there is a cut to when she makes a motion with her hand that she was chugging some drink. Ah, good catch ... my error ... I should've said didn't see it coming in the exchange in this particular scene (as in, thought the Lilly v. Stillman conflict would be drawn out longer, perhaps). My bad. I thought this, too, but I think she (or her mom) couldn't really afford to get new clothes and/or mom thought she looked fine (?), so she was stuck with what she had (even if she didn't want to look that way anymore). |
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Post by coldboneslove398 on Oct 1, 2007 17:09:59 GMT -5
Whoa Ricky Ullman(his jewish name in the credits:Raviv Ullman) from "Phil of the Future"(DisneyChannel) was in this episode o.O You guys pretty much said everything  . Another great episode . I like where this season is heading so far ;D. Wow...Lilly is back in the interrogation room!! *squeals* Omg Kat and her daughter at the end!! awwww |
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koufax
Desk Clerk II
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Post by koufax on Oct 1, 2007 17:28:00 GMT -5
I doubt Lilly is drinking, seriously since she is all about justice to her victims. Plus she had full concentration on the case; which when Scotty was drinking he wasn't. I agree totally. For me, it would change the essence of the show and I'm not sure I would watch anymore. |
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Sam
Desk Clerk I
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Post by Sam on Oct 1, 2007 17:54:36 GMT -5
Wow! Great episode! Possibly better than Thrill Kill.  I wasn't really expecting to like this one, but I was happily surprised. I was also happy to see Raviv Ullman as one of the guests. I recognized the name immediately from Phil of the Future (though they used the name Ricky) and from the episode of House he was on, that was coincidentally on last Friday. In fact, when it first aired, it was this same time of year. few things that really bugged me about this story was...if carrie freaked out knowing one of them was out to kill her..why would she get in a car with one of them? also if im not misunderstanding the timeline, why was carrie even attending another one of those chastity meetings (the meeting where she reads the note threatening to kill her) AFTER she caught nathan masturbating off of tina's secrets earler? if nathan knew one of them was threatening to kill her..you would think he wouldve said something for the last 9 years I was thinking all of those things too. I don't know why she would have gotten in the car if she knew that one of them was thinking of killing her. Also, how did they have the note that she put in the "God Can" if he said he threw it out? Was he lying? Anyway, about the Christianity part, I really have no say. I just find it funny that all of them ended up being the killer (Other than Nathan). I haven't ever seen an episode like that. I've seen ones somewhat like it, where there was a group of people that were involved, but not where it was premeditated, and not where all of them actually did their part (Except for Manny) in killing her. Quite shocking. I was still trying to figure out who did it when all four were in the interrogation room. And that's all I have to say. |
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
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"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Oct 1, 2007 18:27:53 GMT -5
Here's something else that gets me. If Tina really was a good Christian you would think that she'd either A. Confess to her sin, or B. Not tell the others to shut up when they're about to out her.
I was also looking at the song meaning for the ending song, "Black Balloon" by the Goo Goo Dolls. (note: They used a Goo Goo Dolls song in "Black Out.") and while the general consensus seems to that it's about heroin use, there's another interpretation that the song is about someone who made an attempt to get someone else to live life, but died a young death.
Hmm...sounds familiar.
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Post by scillylove on Oct 1, 2007 18:39:44 GMT -5
Gah...late. I was glad to see this episode, it struck a perfect balance between the personal drama and the case. Much better than last week where the case took a backseat. The Lilly "What? I have friends." thing was adorable. It just made me want to go hug her and say, "Oh, my little anti-social Lilly, we do love you."  I also can't remember the last time I felt for a victim as much as I did in this ep. That was nice, I've missed being able to sympathsize with them (I honestly don't know why I haven't been able to, but that's besides the point). I know it's a little early to say this, but the Scotty/Lilly interrogation scene of the four of them is my favourite interrogation scene of the season. I just loved how that was done, with the acting, the camera angles, just loved it. The Scotty IAB thing made me sad. It sucks that he's gotta take so much heat for this; I mean, he saved Lilly's life! And Stillman, seriously dude, stop taking your frustrations with yourself out on poor Scotty. Anyhoo, all in all, thumbs up from me.  |
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Post by babyv16 on Oct 1, 2007 18:40:48 GMT -5
Wow. I loved this episode. It's sad...all Carrie was trying to do was change her life, and she was murdered for it. And by what we thought were good Christians. I'm not trying to say all Christians are perfect, because I am one, and far from perfect. I said that because if they were as holy as they said, they all would have confessed long ago. Anyway, awesome ep. Loved how Scotty reacted when he found out Stillman snitched on him. He let him know how he felt - without really saying to his face what he did. Loved Lilly's hair!!! I'm don't like how Lilly said she went out with friends and had drinks. There's nothing wrong with it if you're a normal person, hey, go for it...but Lilly is going through a rough time. and since when do we hear about her going out for drinks? Never. I think she might be taking after her mom. Does anybody else see this as a coincidence that she talks about drinking (outside of First Thursdays) right after TWO major crises in her life? I got emotional at the end when Carrie's mom found her note saying "I think God loves me for who I am". Like I said, she was only trying to change her mistakes in her life, and the ones who were supposed to be there to help her took it away from her. Well, my two cents. and I hope I don't offend anyone about the Christian comments. Please let me know if I did. |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
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Post by boxman on Oct 1, 2007 18:41:18 GMT -5
Who thinks that Scotty shot Lil, I got the impression during this episode for some reason... That doesn't seem to quite work out. Scotty first fired upwards to break the glass, then across the opening to strike "Romeo". Lilly's cue to Scotty ("shoot now") was to let him know she was out of the firing path. BTW, that's yet another foreboding imagery for Scotty--Breaking a mirror. Poor guy. He's had sooo many of these negative symbolisms the whole past season! I doubt Lilly is drinking, seriously since she is all about justice to her victims. Plus she had full concentration on the case; which when Scotty was drinking he wasn't. I agree totally. For me, it would change the essence of the show and I'm not sure I would watch anymore. I too think it would be a strange move for the show to go this route with Lilly's character. One thing to consider also is that while drinking is usually portrayed negatively in this show, the detectives drinking has usually always been shown as nothing other than something social. (One exception was Scotty at Christina's bar.  ) The neutral aspect of the detectives drinking can be seen many times as in the closing montages for "The Runner", "Greed" and "Wilkommen". Maybe Lilly had a drink with and old flame such as Kite, Joseph, McRay.... or Boxman?? LOL... She could've simply spent some time with someone that cares about her, and this is the show's way of slowly introducing someone positive for her...  I notice that in this episode, the color Red wasn't used to foreshadow anger, as it was in one scene last week and in the episode "The River". Thus, this may be an indication that Lilly drinking might not be as negative as we would naturally first believe. ETA: Oh, don't forget that the last time we saw Lilly drink, she drunk-dialed Kite.... |
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koufax
Desk Clerk II
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Post by koufax on Oct 1, 2007 19:14:23 GMT -5
I just remember that when Lilly went to visit her sister, Christina, in an episode she ordered a drink by saying something like give me a vodka and OJ and hold the vodka. So if she is made to start drinking it would be completely out of character considering her disdain for those who drank too much and how she blames her misfortunes on a DRINKING mother.
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
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"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Oct 1, 2007 19:33:08 GMT -5
Or it would make perfect sense since those with alcoholic parents are more likely to become alcoholics themselves. My mom hardly touches beer, because her father was an alcoholic and she fears that she may also have the inclination to be one too.
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Post by TVFan on Oct 2, 2007 9:40:14 GMT -5
I liked this one a lot. First, though, I wanted to address the Lilly drinking discussion. I don't think Lilly was out (or in) drinking the night before. I think this was the story she gave because she didn't want to tell her co-workers the truth. She's suffering from post tramautic stress disorder, so she's probably having a lot of trouble sleeping at night. I'm sure she wakes up all night - assuming she gets any sleep at all. Admitting that to her co-workers would mean admitting that she's not dealing with the shooting as well as she wants them to believe. She especially doesn't want Stillman to know because he's the one harping on her to attend the counseling session. I have full faith that the writers would never give Lilly a drinking problem. It would be horrifyingly out of character considering her mother's recent death due to alcoholism. Lilly has always been cautious when it comes to alcohol (except for that one time when she drunk-dialed Kite). I think if Lilly did have a drinking problem, she wouldn't be sharing it with her co-workers. So when she arrived bright and early at the crime scene, it was most likely because she wasn't getting any sleep at home and welcomed the opportunity to have something to do. Plus at home, she's left alone with her thoughts, but at work, she's busy working on other people's tragedies. Carrie was a very interesting, very tragic character. I wasn't fully invested in her story in the beginning, but she quickly became an extremely sympathetic character. Her murder was horrifying and deeply disturbing. I was cringing as I watched the four (that caught me off guard!!) teens stone her to death. As others have said, I think this one was more about confused, misguided teens rather than Christians. Tina was embarrassed about what she and Nathan had been doing and upset that Carrie knew, so she convinced the others that Carrie was the manifestation of their sins and therefore, had to die. All four of them were filled with shame for what they had been doing and confused about whether it was right or wrong, but Carrie knew where she stood ("I think that God loves me for who I am"). Totally agree, LillyKat. Those mug shots were SO well done. Kudos to Roxann Dawson for a well directed outing. Scotty's troubles aren't going anywhere it seems. I do think that Scotty likes to cross the line, but he always does it because he thinks it's best for the people involved. LOVED his interview with IAD. "What were you doing in your partner's house in the morning??" I was laughing because it did sound much worse than it was. I'm not completely convinced that it was Stillman who sold him down the river, though. If Scotty gets in trouble, he's down a detective. My suspicion is that female ADA might have been the snitch, but Scotty sure seems convinced that it was Stillman. Speaking of Stillman, the man sure is harboring a nasty case of guilt. For some reason, he's taking it out on Lil. I guess he can't feel better until she's 100% better and he feels that she won't be unless she attends the counseling. Thus, he's angry with her for not going. Overall, a good episode and another great indicator for the season. As always, more thoughts and a few caps at Pass the Remote. |
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Post by riche on Oct 2, 2007 11:55:48 GMT -5
I liked this one a lot. First, though, I wanted to address the Lilly drinking discussion. I don't think Lilly was out (or in) drinking the night before. I think this was the story she gave because she didn't want to tell her co-workers the truth. She's suffering from post tramautic stress disorder, so she's probably having a lot of trouble sleeping at night. I am increasingly inclined to think this is the likely truth. Sounds like having an alcoholic in the family could send you either down the same path or in completely the opposite direction. Lilly has shown little indication of being one for drinking. Poor Lilly, she needs a hug  (must resist adding "And I'd like to volunteer to give her one ") Doh! |
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Post by riche on Oct 2, 2007 16:41:42 GMT -5
I notice that in this episode, the color Red wasn't used to foreshadow anger, as it was in one scene last week and in the episode "The River". This one was probably too obvious to be considered in this sort of context but the opening scene revealing Carrie to be the victim was very black and white except for the blood:  Blood on a dead body is nearly always a sign of anger but I thought it was interesting... ish. OK it wasn't. |
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LillyKat
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Post by LillyKat on Oct 2, 2007 18:30:27 GMT -5
I liked this one a lot. First, though, I wanted to address the Lilly drinking discussion. I don't think Lilly was out (or in) drinking the night before. I think this was the story she gave because she didn't want to tell her co-workers the truth. She's suffering from post tramautic stress disorder, so she's probably having a lot of trouble sleeping at night. I'm sure she wakes up all night - assuming she gets any sleep at all. Admitting that to her co-workers would mean admitting that she's not dealing with the shooting as well as she wants them to believe. She especially doesn't want Stillman to know because he's the one harping on her to attend the counseling session. I have full faith that the writers would never give Lilly a drinking problem. It would be horrifyingly out of character considering her mother's recent death due to alcoholism. Lilly has always been cautious when it comes to alcohol (except for that one time when she drunk-dialed Kite). I think if Lilly did have a drinking problem, she wouldn't be sharing it with her co-workers. So when she arrived bright and early at the crime scene, it was most likely because she wasn't getting any sleep at home and welcomed the opportunity to have something to do. Plus at home, she's left alone with her thoughts, but at work, she's busy working on other people's tragedies. You know, TVFan, I think you may have convinced me in that perhaps Lil isn't drinking, and instead, is using that as a front. I didn't see it this way the first go around, but yours is a very good observation on why she might be hiding behind the idea ... wondering if any of this will be revealed through counseling. Poor Lilly, she needs a hug Ain't that the truth. |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
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Post by boxman on Oct 2, 2007 20:25:25 GMT -5
(must resist adding "And I'd like to volunteer to give her one ") Doh! Well, never send the boys in to do a man's job. Move over everyone! I'll give Lilly a hug! ;D Good observation, TVFan. While you've suggested one of the best scenarios here so far, I'm not too excited about the possibility of Lilly telling "white lies" again either. I thought we left all that back in seasons one and two?? ETA: HMmmm.... I just saw "Saving Patrick Bubley" on the TNT Cold Case marathon... Very interesting to hear Lilly give Patrick a "You must be strong" speech. Very stark contrast to how she's shaken up today.  |
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Post by Naj on Oct 3, 2007 11:41:12 GMT -5
Whilst the men of Look Again fight over giving Lilly a hug....
That's a great observation, TVFan. It didn't register with me. What did register is that Lilly has never mentioned being out with friends before so it sounded very odd for her to say such.
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myril
Veteran Detective
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Post by myril on Oct 3, 2007 16:02:03 GMT -5
TVFan's suggestion makes a lot of sense and is a possible scenario. But it makes sense to me too, that Lilly could have been out with friends (or looking for friends), taking a few drinks. Doesn't have to mean she was totally drowning herself in alcohol. A question: would we immidiately wonder if Vera turns into an alcoholic when going out for a night and do some drinking? Or, why do we get the idea when Lilly might have done so? Just because she is the character catching most of our attention? Or because her mom was an alcoholic? Anyway, whatever scenario you prefer, Lilly is shaken to the core. And fitting to her character she wants to play the tough girl first. I'm not quite sure, if she's going to counselling now because Stillman insisted so charmingly or because she finally noticed, that she might need some talking (maybe thanks to some friends she spent a long night with?), or maybe it's even both. We'll see what they gonna make of it. But looks like Stillman could need some counselling too. Ah yeah, the "I'm the boss and always responsible" syndrom. It happend on his watch and it works on him. Said I found his harsh reaction in last episode a bit out of character, but on second thought it starts to fit more. Pretending a bit to be a tough guy too, the boss, keeping his team on the right path. He feels guilty. Think there was a moment when he looked at Scotty like saying, sorry, can't do much about it anymore, no way to keep this in our team now. Don't think he is particular mad at Scotty, but there is sometimes only so much you can to protect your own people. This case really got me. Probably because I could feel a lot of sympathy for Carrie, she was a great girl, young woman, in many ways. Liked that at the beginning they actually made her look like some girly, who cares more about guys and looks than anything else - revealing something about how prejudices can be created. The same with her mother, on first sight really not the type you expect to be such a loving and caring mom, but all she wanted was her girl to become a selfconfident and independent woman, strong on her own. But Carrie was naiv sometimes, refreshingly but dangerous for herself. A kind of innocent soul, not really able to understand or see the dark sides in humans. Very different the four other teenagers. They were so stuffed with all this sin babble, that they knew more about dark sides than about being good. Nothing particular Christian. It was about people getting uptight and twisted in their inner selves, only surpressing but never facing whatever scares them or makes them feel guilty. Instead they start to blame others for allegedly corrupting them. Or for making the mistakes. Oh, and this is not the first time that we had more than one killer. Rampage for example. And remember Strange Fruit? Giving this episode an excellent, a strong case story and a good blending with personal stuff. Hm, guess boxman's ideas are working on me now, musing about possible subtles, deeper meanings of sin and surpression in this episode and former picking up on Christian and other symbolism. And last but not least an excellent because of the last ten minutes, from the moment when Lilly and Scotty entered the room to interrogate the four up to the end. Think that was one of the best stuff I've seen on CC so far. Acting, directing, cinematography and the wonderful score of Michael A. Levine, just good. Well, being a Star Trek fan (still kinda am, but not so crazy about as before) I sure was excited about Roxann Dawson directing another episode of CC. Even more because she has done a great job with "A Perfect Day" and "Joseph" already. She has some eye for impressive, lasting pictures and how to tell a story without using much words at times, like in the last 10 min of this ep. Just wow. I'm glad she took the chance to get into directing when she had on Star Trek. And she learned a lot since then. A special applaus for her. Oh, and love the little moment with Kat and her daughter in the end montage. LOL. It's nice to have a funny but still thoughtful moment after such a heavy episode. |
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. Another great episode 
I wasn't really expecting to like this one, but I was happily surprised. I was also happy to see Raviv Ullman as one of the guests. I recognized the name immediately from Phil of the Future (though they used the name Ricky) and from the episode of House he was on, that was coincidentally on last Friday. In fact, when it first aired, it was this same time of year. 
) The neutral aspect of the detectives drinking can be seen many times as in the closing montages for "The Runner", "Greed" and "Wilkommen". Maybe Lilly had a drink with and old flame such as Kite, Joseph, McRay.... or Boxman?? 
