Lilly and child issues. (deep post)

[Khaya]

I don't really have much to say about it.
Just that it will bring a whole new dramatic light on the 'Lilly-case' when this is true.

I just wanted to post this post because I wanted to let you know I really enjoyed reading this thread. I read all you theories and I really do think you all have a talent for thinking
This is already an old thread and I found it while I was searching something to read. And I definitely hope you'll find another something to discuss about, because I'm already excited to read another thread as interesting as this one.
Congratulations!

[scillylove]

lolgirlyy said:

You make an excellent point. I started watching Cold Case at the very beginning of Season 5, so I didn't see this episode. However, I would like to bring up a point that I saw in a Cold Case marathon. It is the one where the mentally challenged kid is run over by a train. Scotty is talking to Christina.

S: Why don't you and Lilly get along, anyway?
C: Well, it was 9 years ago, when Lilly was engaged to a guy we all loved.
S: Lil was engaged?
C: Yeah, until...
S: Until what?
C:(some stuff I don't remember...),and one night, he had a few too many beers, and....

This may imply that Lily was raped by her fiancee,....

Lily is like a puzzle that someone lost a piece to. You just can't complete it without that piece. And until someone finds that piece, all we can do is speculate.

In that scene (the episode is called Wishing) we learn that Christina slept with Patrick, Lilly's fiance, while she was out late on patrol. There was never any mention of rape (and something I doubt very much happened).

[Gina]

w/e

[lilly2009]

This has been the best post I've ever read on the board. I am a thinker too. I always thought she was raped or sexually assaulted that night "You know he didn't" and the turned look when George asked if he had touched her.
I have also thought her intimacy issues are due to being abandoned by her father. I don't remember what episode. She was burning breakfast, told Joseph to go ahead and leave. When he dumped her, she said "I don't want to be alone" and he said "maybe you do".
Also, I can tell you as an adult child of an alcoholic that her mother's drinking and Lilly having to take care of her makes a person angry that they never got a chance to be a kid and afraid of ever trusting anyone.
I'm so glad I found this post, even if no one ever sees it.

[longislanditalian2]

May 4, 2009 12:28:45 GMT -5 lilly2009 said:

This has been the best post I've ever read on the board. I am a thinker too. I always thought she was raped or sexually assaulted that night "You know he didn't" and the turned look when George asked if he had touched her.
.

I disagree, Lilly wasn't sexually assulted, she shook her head no. The reason why she has problems getting close stems from her childhood. Her mother abadoned her a lot, that can do a lot to a child. Plus she grew up poor, and her father had left. Given a lot of things it's more along the lines of a trust issue

[Tati]

Wow, I'm glad you guys ressurrected this thread because I hadn't read it, and it's really interesting. I also believe, from the talk on The Woods, that maybe Lilly was physically assaulted - could be sexually, or not - but never thought of it influencing her possibility of having children.

I do believe the no children situation comes from the fact that she's single. I don't think Lilly would want a kid outside marriage, plus, she sees such horrible crimes everyday at work, maybe she just doesn't want to put a child in that kind of world. I know that's how I feel when I watch the news.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

she shook her head no.

While it's possible she wasn't, a head shake can mean more than just "no it didn't happen" it could also mean "No, I don't want to remember"

We are talking about a woman who would rather shove down every bad thing that's happened to her; instead of acknowledging it and dealing with it.

*shrugs*

I guess I belong to the group of "Leave all options open until they specifically give the right answer."

[longislanditalian2]

Lilly was physically assulted as we saw from the flashbacks on " The Woods", but perhaps the reason why she doesn't have any kids is due to the fact that she's afraid that she'll turn into her mother.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

That could be it.

[longislanditalian2]

Having a mother like Ellen Rush is the probably the answer in a nutshell, that's why deep down Lilly's afraid of having kids. Growing up with an abusive mother can turn one weary of having kids, perhaps that's why she pullls away from any relationship ( Except the one with Saccardo, that was due to his work).

It's fear more than anything else, I doubt she's waiting to marry. That's not the issue here, and what happened to her at the age of ten isn't what's keeping her from having kids. Lilly knows now that she has the ablity to protect herself.

What if Lilly had found out that she couldn't have any kids around the same-time the thing happened with Patrick and Christina ( References Season 2's Wishing and Revolution). Perhaps she had gotten pregnant and Lilly knew that she couldn't, that perhaps let her into lashing out on Scotty; because Lilly herself wasn't still able to deal with the fact about herself. It probably had nothing to do with Scotty personally but she just took her anger out on him. ( That's a whole another topic)

Back on the topic here, if Lilly could have any kids the way she looked during S1's The Runner; about the part of losing a little girl from the victim's wife; could symbolize her own loss of never being about to have a little girl of her own. Lilly in that way was also feeling that loss from a different prepective.

In S4's Baby Blues, Lilly looking at the child's gave; could be a sign of both her sadness that the victim died so young and the fact that Lilly herself is still covering her past about not being able to have kids.
Perhaps all these were just metaphors to throw us off or, they have been telling us viewers secretly the secrets of Lilly's own past for the past six seasons.


Who knows, this is just my own theory..

[leni810]

A very interesting topic...
I had never thought, me too, about the fact about Lilly not being able to have children...
Once someone told me -the reason is a big story- that if you want to put a female character over 30 (Lil was 34 when the show started) who isn't looking intensely for making family must have a strong motive or a strong reason fot this -> destroyed relationships, bad childhood or biological inability to have children.
Lil fits already the two first options. The third would exagerate
Also, the reasons of the destroyed relationships are pretty clear:her sister, work, afraid of opening up. Even with Joseph her relationship was too fresh for her slipping away due to something related to children.
In my opinion if Lil had such a problem, it would be something more obvious to us. We would know for example about a relationship with an undefined reason of ending. Maybe somewhere she had mentioned something with words.
Having a woman affected by the death of a child is quite casual, it doesn't say anything, moreover if you have a woman being an alone, harmed, little girl deep inside.
Actually, you can't say that she seems that she doesn't want a family. It's just her character, her fears and mostly the bad timing that make her end up alone. Also, after what she has passed, certainly, she wants to provide her children with the best family. So she doesn't negotiate and I think that she seems cool about that.

As for sexual attack I would say, yes. If there wasn't such an event, George wouldn't have said this quote "Did he touch you?"
And for her sex perfomance, her wounds to this part of her life were healed with Ray. They loved each other, they made a healthy relationship for their age with the passion of the youth. She proceded to her love life normally. That's why now we don't see any serious problem on her.
However, remember that she didn't give in very easily to Kite back to season 1... We had a clear scene where she stopped Kite from continuing...
With Joseph, even if we were given the idea that Lil proceeded more fast, even she knew Joseph less, just stick to the fact that we aren't given the specific scenes at the start of their relationship.
With Saccardo! No comments!! What we saw has nothing to do with the Lilly we knew, to a great percent! Let's just see it from the point that Lil having passed a life-to-death experience and after the depression simply decided to move on with an interesting, good-looking man away from her fears about this part. She had grown up, too.
Anyway, this maybe will be clarified tonight...

[longislanditalian2]

@leni- I have to disagree, Lilly did love Saccardo but she was more mature with him than with the other " Annoying" men she had been with. First of all Ray used her, he didn't really love her; he only saw her as the 19 year old not the woman she is today. Second he only stopped by so that she could get him out of trouble.

Third, Saccardo brought out a different kind of Lilly but the writers didn't really go into their relationship all too much. The episode Jackals; we see that she still loves and misses him. As for Joseph that was just a stupid mixed up emotion thing.


What if the reason why Lilly got so mad at Scotty in Wishing wasn't really directed at him, but something from her past. Like her finace Patrick knocking up Christina if that really did happen; I don't know if I did. It could be a fear that her best friend would be doing the same thing again, I think she was trying to protect her best friend Scotty from her sister. Perhaps Lilly's Jeolous of Christina that she can have kids.


I don't think Lilly's had any kids, but it could explain why she's so alone. Or that simply Lilly wants to be alone, some people are like that.

[leni810]

I was talking about the sex part.
She loved every man she was with in one or another way.
I accept that Lil loved Saccardo. All what we saw wasn't wrong at all, but some things were left without solid explanations.
Ray was good for her only these past years, at the of age 19. not for after and now. Lil matured, Ray no.

As for this thing with Scotty, even I'm not the most objective person to talk about this matter, I'd say that Lilly was freaked out because for one more time Christina stepped into her territory and slept with the man who was beside her,( I'm not telling the man that she felt for!! I don't want to be misunderstood!!), with the man that was closest to her. Back then was her fiance, now her partner and friend.
Yes it's about the past but taking that to kids I think that we are taking the thing too far... It could be but without solid clues, direct events...
(The only jeαlousy that she could have for her sister was that she could have the easiest way every man she wanted, even if this man was warned... People with difficulties to making relationships often are jealous of the others who do that easily... This would make Lil seem a little mean but actually the things that she told to Scotty weren't kind at all... She wasn't trying to protect him with the ending phrase... She just expressed a malicity...)

[longislanditalian2]

If you were Lilly and your best friend slept with your sister, I'd think she had every right to be. That isn't the point, Lilly has to problem when it comes to sex. Being in a real relationship well that's where she has problems, it could stem from her mother being in bad relationships one after the other. Lilly probably was phyically abused by some of them, therefore she's weary about settling down with someone.

The main problem is that she can't trust anyone, she doesn't really have any friends. It's like she threw herself into a ball and can't break free. Maybe Lilly doesn't know really how to love, she likes the idea of it but as soon as she finds someone she wants out. Except for Saccardo whom left due to his job, but she weary about being in a relationship.

[leni810]

This problem with the relationships in general is real and the greatest, unfortunately , but it is due to her whole childhood.
If she was abused by the attacker or if she can't have kids are little details.

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Hmm, another reasoning for her being unable to stay in a relationship could be because of super-ego.

[leni810]

"Super-ego" saying?? Egoism you mean??

[longislanditalian2]

Or that she's scared of being abused again..

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Imagine the conscious and unconscious mind being composed of three parts. The id, the ego, and the super ego. The id is the part that wants satisfaction usually by means of pleasure and emotional gratification. "I WANT I WANT I WANT!" The super ego is the part opposite of the id. The part that says, "No, you can not have that, and you should NOT even want it!" Then you have the ego that just wants everyone to get along. The part that seeks to make the id and super ego happy.

So, I'm suggesting that Lilly's relationship issues could be due to an imbalance between her super ego, ego, and id.

[Tati]

Reverend, that's a very interesting theory... but that imbalance could be the result of past psychological trauma? I don't think we had the chance to know Ellen Rush that well but I can see some kind of psychological abuse in Lilly's childhood - like Ellen telling Lilly and Christina that they were a burden to her, that they ruined her life, etc. leading Lilly to unconsciouslly believe that she doesn't have the right to be happy.