Lilly/George: Closed emotional experience for Lil

[Naj]

I was just going thru my tapes this afternoon putting things in order and I rewatched "The Woods". I am disappointed that Season three didn't/hasn't addressed this and my speculation was because of the defunct detective they put into the storyline. Which is really not any excuse not to continue on the Lilly storyline. Why they don't think the audience would suddenly forget the impact George had is beyond my understanding.

I still wonder if Lilly does have any dreams/nightmares of the George ordeal. InsideR has said they won't bring George back since he's dead but I had thoughts that it would affect Lilly somehow.

The conversation right before Lilly kills George:

G: We're alike you and I.

L: I'm nothing like you.

G: You sleep with the dead. You're already halfway there. And when you kill me even those photos you cling to will fade away. Like everyone fades away for you. You will be alone like me.

L: You're wrong. I'll never be like you.


So is this whole ordeal with George closed for Lilly? What could they still explore.

Did Lilly move her photos she has in her bedroom? Does she have vivid dreams of George? Does she awake at night thinking that George had killed her in that attic?

[longislanditalian2]

She might have dreams about killing george , but I think after seing 8 years , remembering the time spent with the MC man , she put away them . She might still have emotional problems stemming from the whole george experience but she buries them deep down inside her , like everything else she's ever felt

[TVFan]

I think that the show will continue to indirectly deal with the "George Effect." Lilly is not the same this year, and I think we will continue to see small, residual effects of what happened between her and George in "The Woods." Maybe the experience has her thinking about the fact that she is alone, and maybe we'll start to see her more willing to share her life. I'm sure they'll be subtle moments that show how she continues to be affected, but I wouldn't expect them to delve any deeper into the issue. Even though I was disappointed by the lack of follow-up on this storyline, I do find it realistic in that it matches Lil's personality. She would attempt to hide any effects and move on quickly just as the show did. I think the whole thing came to a head, though, in "Saving Patrick Bubley." Lilly was a mess in that episode!

[soccerulz]

TVFan: I agree with everything you just said. Especially about 'Saving Patrick Bubley'....haha, she was a mess in that episode!

[sonny]

tvfan said:

I think that the show will continue to indirectly deal with the "George Effect." Lilly is not the same this year, and I think we will continue to see small, residual effects of what happened between her and George in "The Woods." Maybe the experience has her thinking about the fact that she is alone, and maybe we'll start to see her more willing to share her life. I'm sure they'll be subtle moments that show how she continues to be affected, but I wouldn't expect them to delve any deeper into the issue. Even though I was disappointed by the lack of follow-up on this storyline, I do find it realistic in that it matches Lil's personality. She would attempt to hide any effects and move on quickly just as the show did. I think the whole thing came to a head, though, in "Saving Patrick Bubley." Lilly was a mess in that episode!

I agree with you too TVFan. The writers have been very subtle when showing the after effects of the George incident and Saving Patrick Bubley was probably the most significant. In Family she was very wobbly throughout the episode I thought. She looked pale and tired and I think that was done on purpose. She was emotional at the end when she reunited Claire and Quinn also.

In The Promise she was very quick to say she was gonna be going to first thursday which I suppose shows she is trying to get herself out and about which is a development from when she broke up with Kite and didn't go [when he asked her in the Badlands she said she had not been lately].

Lilly appears now to take on board alot of what is said. Her face was priceless when in Start Up Amy's sister was talking about her not being all about work and just her and her cats!

I think George gave Lilly a real wake up call and while she is obviously still very effected by the events I think she is also trying desperately hard to change her life and maybe this is why

SPOILER: Click to show

we are gonna meet up with her motorcycle guy.

Anyway I'm just rambling but I do think that when I have looked at the bigger picture of season 3 so far it has given us alot of clues about how Lilly is coping with things. Not very well really!! It would be nice for one ofthe guys she works with every day to perhaps show a little more concern for her cos most of the time they carry on as normal when they must surely see she is extremely wobbly at the moment.
A specific mention of the George incident would be great to see though cos then we won't need to guess how she is feeling about it, she will show us exactly what she is feeling!!





{edited spoiler info}

[TVFan]

I had totally forgotten about Lilly's reaction is "Start Up" and her First Thursday appearances! That's so true sonny! These are both more subtle ways that the show has been revealing the residual effects. Awesome memory sonny!

[soccerulz]

Wow Sonny.....

I hadn't really been paying attention the 'big picture' of this season, but you are so right! I hadn't even connected that first thursday thing! Thanks for your insight!

[longislanditalian2]

She just bottled it all up ,but in someways she's trying not to be alone so much . Her walls are Slowly being shattered

[Disasterfreak]

The effects have been subtle, it's true, and while all the points Sonny has made are valid, there's something that really bothers me about her reaction. I just don't find it coherent. If you have a fight with a friend--or maybe even the Kite break-up--THAT could be a wake-up call. But a near-death experience simply doesn't have that sort of effect over people. Not a constructive effect. It's realistic that she's tried to keep it to herself, but I honestly don't think she'd take to opening up more just because George said she was alone, just like him. It's just too... I dunno. It's so hard to explain. But it doesn't make sense. It could make her emotional, angry, scared--but not CONSTRUCTIVE. It's weird.

[TVFan]

disasterfreak said:

The effects have been subtle, it's true, and while all the points Sonny has made are valid, there's something that really bothers me about her reaction. I just don't find it coherent. If you have a fight with a friend--or maybe even the Kite break-up--THAT could be a wake-up call. But a near-death experience simply doesn't have that sort of effect over people. Not a constructive effect. It's realistic that she's tried to keep it to herself, but I honestly don't think she'd take to opening up more just because George said she was alone, just like him. It's just too... I dunno. It's so hard to explain. But it doesn't make sense. It could make her emotional, angry, scared--but not CONSTRUCTIVE. It's weird.

I totally see what you're saying here disasterfreak and I don't disagree. I think I see it a little differently. I see Lil's behavior as destructive instead of constructive. Becoming more social and letting people into your life are positive changes, especially for Lilly, but I don't think they're constructive because she's not doing them for the right reasons. Instead of realizing on her own that she wants more from her life than just her career, she's taking a life-threatening experience and some harsh words about her life and turning away from what she feels put her there in the first place. The problem is, she's stuck between a rock and a hard place because she's not emotionally ready to tear down walls that have been in place for far too long. Lilly is such a control freak that she would never turn to drugs or alcohol or men to help her deal with her traumatic experience with George or the ones that loom in her past. She tries to deal with these things herself, and we saw in Saving Patrick Bubley that she wasn't doing a good job because it all bubbled over (no pun intended) at once.

The thing is, she was faced with someone who knew her better than anyone else. He knew her deep, dark secrets and he threw them back in her face. Nobody likes hearing things that they may not like about themselves, so I think she's trying to change some aspects of her life to make herself feel better. The problem is, she's still too closed off (most likely because she's not ready to let all her past experiences go and move on). Of course, this is Lil we're talking about, so any changes are going to be minor and subtle, but changes all the same.

I think her reaction to the sister in Start Up was more of a realization that maybe some of what George said had some merit to it for her. I don't think she ever questioned her personal life to career ratio before, but George shook her entire perspective and made her start examining and questioning her life. The sister's statement about her own sister was sort of an acknowledgement that George may have been right. I think Lil's more sensitive to the issues that he brought up, and that makes her uncomfortable because the foundation that holds her walls together so tightly has now been shaken.

[sonny]

WOW!!!! Well said TVFan!! I agree with everything you have said and you put it so amazingly!! It makes so much sense and it just makes me feel for Lilly so much more. I know she's only a character but she must be going through so much turmoil. Poor girl!!

[Disasterfreak]

Yes, it could work the way you've put it, TVFan. I think you're right, she IS more sensitive to those topics and trying to make changes in a Lilly way. I wish we could get the writers' view of this. Are they really being as subtle and insightful as you are? Or are they just giving the public what it wants (hair-wise and love-wise, for example) and we're tying the knots the way we want to?

Anyway, your post was brilliant, TVFan. ;D Touché.

[V]

Great analysis, TVFan ... DF and sonny. I really don't have anything more to add to this (or maybe I can't because it was so brilliantly analyzed by you guys). All I can say is that the George-aftermath is a sensitive subject -- one that I hope the writers will deal with in more ways than occasional Lilly outbursts. Most CC viewers are smart enough to know where those are coming from, but I think we still deserve a little more development of this issue. And I'm not talking about subtle changes. Lilly is only human and I hope that her fans would welcome if she had a more stark realization of and reaction to what has happened to her. :smile10:

[longislanditalian2]

I think she's still scared of what had happened ,and knows that she has to make a change before she loses it and goes insane

[TVFan]

Thanks disasterfreak, but I was honestly just responding to your very thoughtful and inspiring post.

Regarding whether or not the writers are purposely developing these storylines or we are as viewers, I like to think it's the writers, but of course both scenarios are possible. I do tend to see CC through rose-colored glasses. Actually, I kind of place most of the credit on Kathryn because I think it's the little nuances in her performance that drop the best subtle hints as to Lilly's emotional state.

[sonny]

tvfan said:

Thanks disasterfreak, but I was honestly just responding to your very thoughtful and inspiring post.

Regarding whether or not the writers are purposely developing these storylines or we are as viewers, I like to think it's the writers, but of course both scenarios are possible. I do tend to see CC through rose-colored glasses. Actually, I kind of place most of the credit on Kathryn because I think it's the little nuances in her performance that drop the best subtle hints as to Lilly's emotional state.

Ditto TVFan!

[Disasterfreak]

Yes, Kathryn's great at showing us Lilly. I trust every little gesture, every feeling, as if it really came from Lilly herself. That makes me sometimes jump to conclusions. But anyway it means she's doing a great job.

OMG Sonny--that comic strip on your signature is just THE FUNNIEST thing I've ever seen! And "incredible rack" Who did this??? Anyway, long live Lolly! :smile81:

[wetzelmirage]

Great work Sonny!!!

[irishkale]

naj said:

The conversation right before Lilly kills George:

G: We're alike you and I.

L: I'm nothing like you.

G: You sleep with the dead. You're already halfway there. And when you kill me even those photos you cling to will fade away. Like everyone fades away for you. You will be alone like me.

L: You're wrong. I'll never be like you.

The dialog at the end of The Woods is the most perplexing in the entire series. I've thought about it ALOT to try to figure out what George was trying to imply about Lilly.

I think when he talks about the pictures by the bedside, he's referring to sort of a dark side of Lilly that she'd never want to outwardly acknowledge. At first glance, she's honoring the victims, using their pictures as reminders to keep fighting for justice.

But on the other hand, they could be seen as a scorecard -- the pictures are reminders of her "victories in battle" against the bad guys. From George's warped perspective, the collection on her nightstand is Lilly's own weird trophy case, comparable to his collection of heads, which are HIS trophies of successful kills.

The end result in both Lilly and George's case is that they both dehumanize the victim into an object.

The closest episode we've got right now to resolving this is the Bubley episode, where Lilly goes through the crisis of conscience about how she's lost her humanity in dealing with the rising bodycount of Bubley boys. By the end of the ep she's righted herself and in the heart-to-heart with Patrick in the fileroom, she tells him not to become another box on the shelf. She's revealing alot about her own self there, too.

I would have really liked a true third episode in the George saga.... in leiu of that, I would have to say that the Bubley episode is the bookend to George and any emotional effects Lily felt from it.


I mean wouldn't it seem weird if this far into Season 3, they just came out and said "Oh, by the way, Lily's been in therapy the whole season so far. Oh yeah, she's had a secret heroin addiction to deal with the guilt over killing George. And she has a secret shrine to George hidden in her closet, etc, etc, etc."

[V]

irishkale said:

I mean wouldn't it seem weird if this far into Season 3, they just came out and said "Oh, by the way, Lily's been in therapy the whole season so far. Oh yeah, she's had a secret heroin addiction to deal with the guilt over killing George. And she has a secret shrine to George hidden in her closet, etc, etc, etc."

:smile81: Yes, that would be weird, irishkale. ;D