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Post by schafferius on May 23, 2006 6:04:03 GMT -5
Just thought I would start a topic in relation to the change that Rush has gone through over the last couple of seasons......Just want to get an idea of what other people think in relation to the character of Lily Rush. I find that due to the romance interest in this season that Lily has sort of lost a bit of her hard arse attitude. While there was alot witnessed in one episode (the one where the four brothers were murdered in relation to WebD) I find that the interogations and questionings of suspects this season has been not to harsh from Rush. That's sort of why I really liked her character......because she wasn't perfect and had built up anger that she used well in questioning. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts........
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Post by TVFan on May 23, 2006 11:32:19 GMT -5
I definitely agree with schafferius that Lilly has changed over the course of these three seasons, but I would be upset if she hadn't. It's not that I disliked S1 Lilly, rather the opposite as I loved her, it's just that characters need to grow and develop gradually over time otherwise they become boring. Each experience that comes their way should shape them into a slightly different person just as they do real people. Because this is television and the action has to be big and interesting, Lilly has been through a lot in 3 seasons. Here's an incomplete list off the top of my head: Kite convincing her that they should date Kite breaking up with her for being too involved with her work George The Woods Her sister Scotty and her sister Her mother Her fling with her former flame Feeling like she's alone And I didn't even get into work stuff. All of that stuff creates a pattern, and Lilly is aware of it since she said so herself in "beautiful Little Fool." She has a hard time getting close to people that she cares about because her mother was an alcoholic and wasn't there for her. She meets a guy that she thinks she's going to spend the rest of her life with, but he cheats on her with her sister, who also goes behind her back and sleeps with Lil's partner. Kite gets her to open up and commit to him, only to turn around and hurt her by using the one safety net she has in her life against her. She tries the whole fling thing with Ray just to avoid being lonely, but winds up even lonier after. Then, her mother blows into town long enough to remind her that she's all alone. To make matters worse, her mother is getting married - again. So, she makes a somewhat inebriated phone call to Kite because she wants to tell someone that she can change when all she was really trying to do is convince herself. Enter Joseph, a man who she feels an instant connection with because they share the same values, crusader-like pursuit and the love for their cats. This is the type of guy that Lilly should be with, and I think she realizes this. Do I think that Lilly would have lost her head and compromised an investigation because she was wrapped up in some guy last season? No, but everything that happened this season made it plausable. She combined her feelings for him and her decision to change the way she was living her life, and the mistake was the result. But, this is all new to her (as she told Joseph), so I wouldn't expect her to have the right balance figured out yet. I like the fact that she made a huge mistake because it makes her more human, and her struggle to strike a happy medium between her personal life and her professional one just enforces that further. As a fan of Lilly's, I want her to be happy. Joseph is someone who has the potential to do just that, and Lilly's crazy behavior the other night seems to indicate that she thinks so too.  |
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michelle
Loyal to Look Again
Lilly's GT Monkey [/color]
Posts: 1,047
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Post by michelle on May 23, 2006 13:58:53 GMT -5
Well said TVFAN. I love the bitter, hard ass Lilly but I love her because she also has a very hurt human side that shows through. I think part of the reason the show has gotten such a dedicated following is because of how well Kathryn plays the part. Every woman has been Lilly and felt as Lilly. Who among us has not screamed out and pushed back when what we really wanted to do was cry and cling?
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Post by sonny on May 23, 2006 14:03:52 GMT -5
AMEN TVFan!! Perfectly said!! 
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Post by soccerulz on May 23, 2006 14:19:44 GMT -5
*nods along to TVFans post*
Exactly!
Michelle: yeah! Well said. I totally agree with your last statement. ;D
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Post by Naj on May 24, 2006 14:14:10 GMT -5
I like that Lilly is changing but I miss the needling hard pressing (smart arse) interrogations like the one of Sherry (Sherry Darlin) in season 1. I really miss that about Lilly. I found it hard to follow what the writers were trying to do with Lilly this season. Especially the MC Man. If I hadn't read TVFan's review I would *not* have gotten the nuances into what was actually happening to Lilly in that episode.  edited to add: *not* |
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Post by soccerulz on May 24, 2006 14:23:56 GMT -5
I like that Lilly is changing but I miss the needling hard pressing (smart arse) interrogations like the one of Sherry (Sherry Darlin) in season 1. I really miss that about Lilly. Yeah, I know what you mean. We don't have as many of those really 'tough' interrogations...... Gosh, that was such a good interrogation, wasn't it? |
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Post by Naj on May 24, 2006 14:41:24 GMT -5
I like that Lilly is changing but I miss the needling hard pressing (smart arse) interrogations like the one of Sherry (Sherry Darlin) in season 1. I really miss that about Lilly. Yeah, I know what you mean. We don't have as many of those really 'tough' interrogations...... Gosh, that was such a good interrogation, wasn't it? Yea, it was a gem in my book!  |
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jazzyb
Desk Clerk II
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Post by jazzyb on May 24, 2006 21:22:13 GMT -5
While it's fine to have her character evolve (slowly, I might add), I don't think the show should lose its focus which is actually the "cold cases". Otherwise it'll just be another primetime soap opera. So maybe if Joseph (or whomever) puts a sparkle in her eye, she can get back to being the no-nonsense detective we've come to know and love. I'd hate for her to lose her edge.
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on May 26, 2006 7:12:06 GMT -5
I find it rather fascinating how the show is slowly taking apart and analysing the "hard boiled egg" type of "tough detective" character. Not just Lilly Rush, but everyone else too. Look at how things were revealed about Jeffries, Stillman, Vera and Scotty in these past episodes--I've never watched any show attempt to do this, and it's keeping me interested in seeing where all this will go over time. Even though I understand JazzyB's point, if it was just cold cases alone, I'd probably get bored and not tune in every week. For me, the "sweet spot" for most shows that catch my interest in falls between episodic (?) television, and 'primetime soap operas'.
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Post by TVFan on May 26, 2006 10:30:00 GMT -5
I understand jazzyb's point as well, and I have no doubt that this is the view of the majority of the CC viewers, but I'm more inclined to agree with boxman. I find the "pulling back the layers" approach to each character to be absolutely fascinating. I watch CSI every week for the cases. Sure, I enjoy the characters, but it's the bizarre, satirical tone of each case that keeps me as a viewer. I like CSI, and I'm sure to catch it every week, but it's certainly not one of my favorite shows. All of this is to say that without the characters on CC, it would be just CSI: Cold Cases for me. Lilly is the heart and soul of the show, and when the show forgets that, it suffers in quality in my opinion. Plus, if you're going to have such a fantastic cast led by the superb Kathryn Morris, why waste the talent?
I like the cases, but they're secondary for me. I think that CC does an excellent job of striking the right balance between being too procedural based like CSI and Law & Order and being too character heavy like ER. I also think that, that is very difficult to do every episode, so we're going to get some that are more case forward (like The River and others) and some that are more personal forward (like Joseph and others). I'm fine with the "case" episodes as long as they're mixed in with the "personal" ones. This is why I'm excited to see Lilly grow and develop over the seasons.
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Post by sonny on May 26, 2006 11:24:33 GMT -5
It's easier to just say AMEN again TVFan! |
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Post by soccerulz on May 26, 2006 13:14:43 GMT -5
It's easier to just say AMEN again TVFan! Haha! I know!  AMEN TVFan! |
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michelle
Loyal to Look Again
Lilly's GT Monkey [/color]
Posts: 1,047
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Post by michelle on May 26, 2006 17:50:25 GMT -5
You said it TVFan!! I only became really hooked on the show because of Lilly, not the cases.
And hooked on Lilly because Kathryn plays her as such a Real person.
I really need to find a rerun of the Sherry Darlin episode. Must be quite an interrogation!
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koufax
Desk Clerk II
Posts: 93
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Post by koufax on May 26, 2006 19:18:10 GMT -5
Dear Schafferius,
I agree totally. One of my favorite episodes is "Gleen" where she is very sarcastic and hard nosed with the killer. I think her character can evolve emotionally, yet; she can be the same tough, interrogating detective that she was in the first two seasons. Many people can separate their professional and private lives.
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Post by schafferius on May 26, 2006 20:51:09 GMT -5
Yeah ditto that koufax.........I guess that I am just a little worried that a happy personal life for her would mean that she loses that edge. After reading everyone's insight (especially TVFan =)) I understand what they are doing with her character a little more. I do like the way that they focus on each of the characters personal life. It is something that I look forward to in each episode.....I would just like to see a little more of the detective that she was in episodes like those that have been previously mentioned (Sherry Darling).
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Post by TVFan on May 26, 2006 21:42:22 GMT -5
Just want to say that I agree about the interrogations. I would LOVE to see more tough Lilly. She had a few this season (Death Penalty: Final Appeal is a good example) that made me happy. I hope she gets more next season as well. Maybe if she gets things straight in her personal life, she can go back to those kick arse interrogations more frequently! My all time favorites are still Henry in "The Hitchhiker," Mr. Freely in "Fly Away" and George in "Mind Hunter." So wonderful!! |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
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Post by boxman on May 26, 2006 23:35:43 GMT -5
...that without the characters on CC, it would be just CSI: Cold Cases for me.... Ha ha ha!! That's a very clever way to put it, TVFan! And it's sooo true too! ...I think her character can evolve emotionally, yet; she can be the same tough, interrogating detective that she was in the first two seasons. Many people can separate their professional and private lives. ...and you know, koufax, this is what I see happening to Lilly right now. She's in the process of separating and balancing these two lives out. In "8 Years", Lilly was sentimental over a past love, Ray. Then in "Dog Day Afternoons", she finally sees him again. In their encounter at the interrogation room, we learn how much she acheived, and how little he has changed. That must have surprised her, to realize how much of her dreams she's accomplished in the past years over her slacker ex-fiancee. In "Sanctuary", learning of Scotty's past mistakes must have made her realize that she herself is not so much of a rookie anymore--she actually has underlings in the department now. "One Night" must have made her realize that she can deal effectively with psychotic criminals much better now than a year ago. The next episode, "Superstar", was a tribute to independant women. At the end of that episode, Lilly 'saw' the ghost of Andi, the murder victim. Reflecting upon Andi's tennis acheivements must have made Lilly realize that she too, is holding her own in a man's world. (The formerly all-male homicide department.) Working with Kat in the next episode, "Wilkommen", also must have made her realize she's paving the way for more women into the department. Significant in that episode, is the First Wednesdays drinking scene at the end. That was formerly an all-male thing; and Lilly was welcomed in there only after proving herself by solving the murder of a police officer in Season One's "The Runner". In the next episode, "Beautiful Little Fool", her mom makes Lilly aware that she needs to start balancing out her professional and personal life; and Lilly does so by getting in touch with Kite and by opening the door again with her mom by attending the wedding. Stillman and Jeffries' conversation in the next episode, "The Hen House", underlined the future consequences of individuals who take their work too seriously over relationships: One is a divorcee, the other a widower who was about to celebrate his birthday alone. Lilly herself had nothing to do at night but to drive to NYC to interview a witness. So finally, in "Joseph", it was nice for me to see that Lilly allowed her attraction to this guy come out. What was rather notable to me, was that Lilly was able to give him trust so easily, especially after living a life where so many that were close to her had turned on her in many ways. I think it shows that some kind of healing and growth is occurring, and that Lilly understands that she can bring out more of her personal needs forward. She realizes she's no rookie anymore by crafting an important niche for herself in the homicide department over the past three years. As Lilly hasn't tended to her personal life before because of her ambitions, her start with Joseph was a bit rocky and caused many professional mistakes. I'm looking forward to Season Four, where I expect to see her improve her ability to separate her professional and private lives, and hopefully be more successful at it! Anyway, this is why I'm not so surprised at the loss of that Season One "tough" Lilly--she's had a lot of thoughts on her mind this year. I'm expecting to see in the future a Lilly that becomes one of these people you mention as able to skillfully balance professional and personal needs.... And in doing so, we'll probably see a more deeper and sophisticated Lilly develop along the way, and very likely the return of her kick arse old self. Of course, I'm sure the writers aren't going to make this transition smooth, but that's my two cents of what I see going on here at the end of Season Three. |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on May 26, 2006 23:49:47 GMT -5
I guess it COULD work that way (actually your post made a lot of sense, Boxman)... I just don't understand why "personal life" has to equal "love life". There's lots of other ways to have a personal life that are less clichéd and yet they get ignored over and over...
Besides, this "healing process" of Lilly's... it's being shoved down our throats real bad. In real life no one heals that quickly. It takes years and years... and nothing happened this season to bring forth huge changes IMO. At least not THAT kind of huge changes.
But... that's the last I'll say on the subject. I'm all for the evolving of characters and not sure it's season 1 Lilly I want back... what gets to me is that I don't think Lilly was ever the kinda person I thought she was. I made her up. Hehe, how silly.
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michelle
Loyal to Look Again
Lilly's GT Monkey [/color]
Posts: 1,047
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Post by michelle on May 27, 2006 10:45:08 GMT -5
I agree with you Disasterfreak. No one really heals or changes quickly. That was one of my oppositions to the Joseph episode. It seemed the writers realized they were at the end of another season and had not yet gotten Lilly to the point they wanted her, so they had to pack it all into 60 minutes.
I would like to see her have a love life develop but I certainly hope it will not be a quick, easy, happily-ever-after. It's the conflict and drama that makes any TV show worth watching.
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