DVDs: About time for an organized campaign??

[boxman]

Well, here we are at the end of Season Three. Isn't it about time Cold Case gets released on DVD? I can understand why the studios want to milk the show for reruns on TNT; but at this point, shouldn't Warner Brothers at least put Season One on DVD?? I think the issue with music licensing isn't insurmountable--but it does pose an unusual obstacle.

How many of you folks participated in other campaigns to get shows on DVDs, or to get shows renewed for another season?? Can you share your experience here?? I want everyone to come to some kind of consensus of a plan before doing anything; before calling the troops into action, so to speak.

I, for one, participated in the postcard campaign to get "Firefly" renewed on FOX. Although we weren't successful at getting a second season, we did get the show out on DVDs, which included three unaired episodes. IIRC, the success of the DVDs and the campaign gave Universal Studios interest in the show. They bought out the rights from 20th Century Fox (that originally produced the series), which led to the 2005 film, "Serenity". There's rumors that even though the movie wasn't quite the box office success the studio expected, the DVDs of both the film and the original series is selling well enough for consideration of a second television season! Weird, huh?

Anyway, some of the things the organizers of that campaign did were the following:

- It was a postcard campaign because it was felt it would have more impact on the studios. Postcards (as opposed to letters) can be easily read. They can also be easily stacked and stored by the recepient so that they can gauge the response of the fans.

- We sent the television studios demographic information (such as age, income levels, location, etc.) to show them we're decent people to cater to.

- The list of addresses to send postcards to was reasonably small. I think it was less than 40 recepients that included execs at FOX Television, The Sci-Fi Network, UPN, and a list of advertisers. I think one of the reasons was to make sure that it wasn't an overwhelming task for people to participate.

Gosh, I wish I could remember more about how it was done. Even though it was only about three years ago, the message boards that we discussed what to do have deleted most of the threads from that time...

Unfortunately, in our case, I can't figure out if we need to contact all the record studios that have music in this show, or just simply put pressure on Warner Brothers to get moving on ironing things out...

Any thoughts, people?

[Naj]

I think InsideR (maybe) told us that it would be difficult to ever get CC DVD's due to the music rights. There was a thread here or in the Episode Soundtrack asking about DVD's for the series without the original soundtrack but using an underscore. I'll see if I can find the thread there and bump it up.

[boxman]

Okay, thanks Naj, I'll be looking for it.

I still don't understand why, especially since shows like "Alias" also use a lot of music too. In this day and age, it doesn't make sense to me that they didn't think of this in advance. I would think it's rather obvious that Bruckheimer, Warner Brothers, and any other production company involved with making this series already hammered out a deal between themselves for spitting the profits from DVD sales. Wouldn't they also figure on not using music that had strings attached?? Seems very fishy to me...like a delay tactic, to tell you the truth about my opinion....

[irishkale]

I wonder if the popularity of releasing TV shows on DVD has created a "music cost bubble" where every one-hit wonder now wants to charge big $$$ for rights to include their songs on DVD.
Especially with shows like Cold Case that use older songs, an older artist who's no longer getting money from album sales, etc. might see DVD rights money as their "retirement plan."

When all is said and done, probably only us diehards who have the shows on either tape or computer disk are going to have "the originals." Everyone else will get DVDs with stripped out music.

[kadoom]

I don't know if Cold Case will ever be out on DVD in the US with the original score. Unfortunately, there are examples of shows that have different music on the DVDs- I have heard of Dawson's Creek and Quantum Leap. It could be done for Cold Case, too, I guess.

On the bright side, the European Quantum Leap DVDs have the original music - so there's still hope on this side of the pond.

But perhaps the Cold Case producers decide that the show would be crippled without the music and don't release it on DVD at all. Although I can't see Jerry Bruckheimer spurning a chance to earn money.

[r2k]

I've mentioned this before. Everytime a Cold Case episode aires, I notice on the radio the final song seems to turn up out of nowhere and is played a lot. If anything, Cold Case is free publicity for these artists so they should quit whining.

[TVFan]

CC's biggest hurdle is Warner Bros., who owns the rights to distribute the show on DVD. WB is very funny about DVDs. They released Everwood season one, but it didn't sell as well as they had hoped, so now they are holding off releasing seasons 2, 3, and eventually 4 (and beyond if the show gets picked up). It's really annoying because I had planned to collect the entire series, but I can only have season 1. WB has also only released the first season of Without a Trace (also in its fourth season), and that was almost two years ago! I have a feeling that lower than expected sales led to that decision as well. So, even if CC did get released, there's no guarantee that we would get anything other than season 1. WB keeps releasing DVDs for shows that have a very strong, loyal audience like Gilmore Girls, Veronica Mars and The West Wing. It's interesting because VM (which you all know I adore like CC) only gets about 2 million viewers compared to WaT's 20 + million, but it sells much better as a collector's item on DVD.

I have a feeling that if they ever did release CC (which I don't think they will), it would cost close to $100 a season due to the musical rights. American Dreams, another older music heavy show, released its first season on DVD and it retailed for $90 a set. Interestingly enough, no other seasons of that show (which is NOT a WB distributed show) have been released yet.

[kadoom]

tvfan said:

CC's biggest hurdle is Warner Bros., who owns the rights to distribute the show on DVD. [...]
WB has also only released the first season of Without a Trace (also in its fourth season), and that was almost two years ago!

That's really strange, you know, in Europe we have Without a Trace season 1 and 2 on DVD, and season 3 will be released in july. I get the feeling that the rest of the world will see a release of Cold Case sooner than you Americans.

[boxman]

irishkale said:

I wonder if the popularity of releasing TV shows on DVD has created a "music cost bubble" where every one-hit wonder now wants to charge big $$$ for rights to include their songs on DVD.
Especially with shows like Cold Case that use older songs, an older artist who's no longer getting money from album sales, etc. might see DVD rights money as their "retirement plan."

When all is said and done, probably only us diehards who have the shows on either tape or computer disk are going to have "the originals." Everyone else will get DVDs with stripped out music.

I would think that Bruckheimer, et al had negotiated the music royalties in advance to avoid such a situation and be held hostage by a few greedy musicians. Really, doesn't anyone else believe like I do that Bruckheimer and Warner Brothers have the upper hand here? Frankly, any musician should be groveling at their feet to have their music played on a Top-20 television show, on Sunday nights, on a major television network!

And I hate to say it, but I know what you mean about burning your own DVDs. It's an expensive alternative, but with HDTV, burning your own DVDs definitely results in better recordings than what you'd get from a studio-released DVD set. Only more reason why they should start moving their butts and release Season One!!!

kadoom said:

...Although I can't see Jerry Bruckheimer spurning a chance to earn money.

Exactly! And he'd be earning more money if this series was out on DVD!! This topic is talked about frequently on all the fan boards--they certainly can't be blind to the demand for a DVD collection!!

tvfan said:

CC's biggest hurdle is Warner Bros., who owns the rights to distribute the show on DVD. WB is very funny about DVDs. They released Everwood season one, but it didn't sell as well as they had hoped, so now they are holding off releasing seasons 2, 3, and eventually 4 (and beyond if the show gets picked up). It's really annoying because I had planned to collect the entire series, but I can only have season 1. WB has also only released the first season of Without a Trace (also in its fourth season), and that was almost two years ago! I have a feeling that lower than expected sales led to that decision as well. So, even if CC did get released, there's no guarantee that we would get anything other than season 1. WB keeps releasing DVDs for shows that have a very strong, loyal audience like Gilmore Girls, Veronica Mars and The West Wing. It's interesting because VM (which you all know I adore like CC) only gets about 2 million viewers compared to WaT's 20 + million, but it sells much better as a collector's item on DVD.

I have a feeling that if they ever did release CC (which I don't think they will), it would cost close to $100 a season due to the musical rights. American Dreams, another older music heavy show, released its first season on DVD and it retailed for $90 a set. Interestingly enough, no other seasons of that show (which is NOT a WB distributed show) have been released yet.

Can you confirm that it's WB that has the DVD distribution rights? If we organize a campaign, we need to know who to target. Maybe along with demographic information, we should include the amount of $$ we're willing to pay per season in such a campaign??

[TVFan]

I can confirm it boxman. About a year ago, Ryebeach went to a chat with the WB executives, and they said that they wouldn;t be releasing CC because of music rights. Here's their exact response to Ryebeach's question about CC DVDS:

WarnerHomeVideo: We agree COLD CASE is a great show. Music issues preclude the possibility of a release at this time.

Thread HERE

[jazzyb]

Exactly what are the "music issues that preclude release"? I'm rather in agreement with Boxman that surely the executives with Bruckheimer's production company must have anticipated future merchandising of their baby even had it not been a smashing success. Even marginal shows can have modest success in the DVD realm. Although, if WB has to re-negotiate with these artists for DVD rights that could be very costly especially if they have to ante up more money.

[TVFan]

I don't know for sure jazzyb, but I would assume cost is the factor. If it's not cost than it's clearance. The thing is, the show may have gotten the rights to air the music on television, but negotiating for DVDs may have proved too costly. In the interest of integrity, the show MAY have made the executive decision that it was better to have the songs they wanted to ensure the show's creative edge, even if that meant not being able to release a DVD set in the future. I'm sure that in this day and age, all music rights negotiations include DVD talks, so I have no doubt that it was discussed for CC. They may have even worked things out, but WB may be the ones saying no because they are not willing to release a set of DVDs that will retail for close to $100 when comparable crime shows sell for $40-$50. At close to $100 a pop, only the die hards like us are going to shell out that much cash. Everyone else is going to watch the reruns on TNT. It's a bummer, but I'd rather not have a set, but continue with the great music than see the show amend its musical decisions to secure a cheaper retail price and the guarantee of future sets.

[boxman]

GOOD RESPONSE FROM INSIDER!
I've PM'ed InsideR about this subject, and she's replied with a nice short list of people to contact about our interest in DVDs!

Before I name who these people are, I want to repeat that I believe very strongly in a postcard campaign (over email), since it's much more courteous to the receivers. It is very important to me that this campaign shows a lot of dignity and respect to these recepients, and that we don't go about our efforts in a way that makes us look like a bunch of crazed fans and weirdos. Professionalism is the word here.

Now how should we go about doing this? My idea is that we set up a website that we can direct people to from the numerous Cold Case and Kathryn Morris boards. At that site, we can inform people how this campaign will work, and set the ground rules for courtesy and respect.

Who here has the technical knowledge in setting up a website like this?? KathrynFan? IrishKale??

[tapageur]

I totally agree with you , boxman, about a postcard campaign as opposed to an email campaign; the only technical thing that worries me is that I fear if everyone sends a postcard "at some point" or considering how close/how far they are sent from, the receipient would not be impressed by a mass of cards all at once... Maybe we should have someone gather all the cards first and then send the load.... What do you guys think?

[TVFan]

This is awesome! I'm totally for an organized campaign, and I agree that postcards will be better than email. As soon as we get all the details worked out, I will do a post in Pass the Remote (my blog), so other fans or casual viewrs can participate as well. I'd love to see this be successful.

I think the postcards will work either way, but we could designate a certain start date. I know with SOS campaigns (Save our Show), people send stuff in at their leisure and it seems to work. The Veronica Mars fans are especially good at stuff like this (they have kept the show afloat for two seasons). They launched a postcard campaign this past season with a formatted postcard (so everyone sent the same one) and it worked well. Here's a LINK to that campaign for ideas.

[soccerulz]

Awesome!

I love that we could actually do something.

Now, I don't know how successful we would be. We might not make any difference (dontcha LOVE my negativity ), but why not try? Like you said TVFan, the VM fans have been able to keep that show on for two seasons. So we could have a shot at getting our show out on DVD.

[irishkale]

I like that "build your own postcard" page that was setup by the Veronica Mars fans. But I can't find the stats page that said how many of those PDFs were printed out. Have they posted the #'s yet for the VM postcard campaign?

[boxman]

tapageur said:

Maybe we should have someone gather all the cards first and then send the load.... What do you guys think?

I can see your point about impact, Tapageur, though there seems to be a few problems with this. For starters, I'm not about to let anyone have my address and I assume no one else here is interested in that either! It also doesn't seem reasonable to put it upon anyone to send these postcards *again* to the recipients. There's about a half-dozen people on the list. This means that if only a thousand fans participate, the poor fellow who collects these postcards will have to sort six-thousand postcards (or more!) and send them off to the proper people!! It's probably better to just have the postcards mailed directly, even if it means some may get there long after the campaign starts.

tvfan said:

This is awesome! I'm totally for an organized campaign, and I agree that postcards will be better than email. As soon as we get all the details worked out, I will do a post in Pass the Remote (my blog), so other fans or casual viewrs can participate as well. I'd love to see this be successful.

I think the postcards will work either way, but we could designate a certain start date. I know with SOS campaigns (Save our Show), people send stuff in at their leisure and it seems to work. The Veronica Mars fans are especially good at stuff like this (they have kept the show afloat for two seasons). They launched a postcard campaign this past season with a formatted postcard (so everyone sent the same one) and it worked well. Here's a LINK to that campaign for ideas.

Wow! Great information--thanks for the link! I'm definitely more encouraged now, after seeing their stuff!

I'm about to register a web domain that we can direct people towards in order to give them instructions, information, and mailing addresses. I'm pretty sure I can get this site up in a reasonable amount of time with the help of my friends and co-workers.

I still have one big question though: What's the real story about the music and licensing? I still haven't gotten a clear, factual statement about this issue from any of these posts here or on the imdb.com board. I've only seen people rehash secondhand info over and over. In fact, this has been done so many times that the excuse about "licensing issues" really appears more like an "urban legend" to me. I see this silly reason as the biggest obstacle in getting people to seriously consider participating. They've heard the line for so long, that it seems many have given up hope. I'm not looking forward to wasting any time with naysayers, so I want to blast this issue out of the water first. I think the biggest encouragement that this campaign will be successful comes from InsideR's post in the "Spoilers" folder:

"The best things the fans can do is to write and email Warners and CBS begging them to release the DVD. If they think they'll sell enough, they'll find a way to solve the licensed music problems."
"Same goes for a soundtrack album."

This really sounds more to me that the music licensing is not really a big obstacle that many are making it out to be. (Plus, I got similar encouragement from InsideR's PM, when trying to find out if things were worth pursuing.) So again, does anyone have an official statement regarding this issue?? Is there a press release or other document out there somewhere?? Or can we all agree that this story was very likely something blown out of proportion?

[TVFan]

Irishkale - the stats are on the site's home page. I copied them for you:

$4,000 shower: 1488 fans, 2322 postcards, 1389 to Dawn

Dawn being Dawn Ostroff - the current head of UPN and new head of entertainment at The CW network. I believe the 1,488 fans refers to the number of people that the campaign was able to turn into new VM fans.

boxman - the only "official" word that we have gotten came straight from Warner Bros. at a chat they held some time last year. Regarding DVD releases, they said:

WarnerHomeVideo: We agree COLD CASE is a great show. Music issues preclude the possibility of a release at this time.

This statement was directly lifted from the chat that Ryebeach attended for the board. In fact, he's the one who asked the question. The original thread with the quote is HERE.

[boxman]

tvfan said:

boxman - the only "official" word that we have gotten came straight from Warner Bros. at a chat they held some time last year. Regarding DVD releases, they said:

WarnerHomeVideo: We agree COLD CASE is a great show. Music issues preclude the possibility of a release at this time.

This statement was directly lifted from the chat that Ryebeach attended for the board. In fact, he's the one who asked the question. The original thread with the quote is HERE.

Okay, thanks for the info, TVFan.