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Post by Naj on Jan 7, 2008 13:44:53 GMT -5
That's exactly what I did think that it was this sicko guy against the world. And I do agree I have given it a much higher status for an ep but I think for me I have been doing it post season two because they haven't been able to beat season one and two. I've lowered greatly my expectations so to speak. I agree also that Lilly was basically non-existent but I'm tired of complaining about it and since KM is leaving things obviously aren't going to change as they are growing the detective stories more around all six. Otherwise the bulk of the eps would be Good or Less basically every single week. There are things that have been done in the last two seasons for Lilly that I do appreciate being an original fan of the series.
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ruda
Lilly Rush
The Lilly and Ray Official Member
I can always make you smile =]
Posts: 1,599
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Post by ruda on Jan 7, 2008 15:11:37 GMT -5
Wham - Last Christmas on the beginning and Timbaland - Apologize et the end -> love it! Scotty and this stupid ADA?! What the heck is that?! I def don't like it...
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Post by riche on Jan 7, 2008 17:20:37 GMT -5
W-w-what! A good episode. The show needs a bit more tension once in a while. I thought they really dragged out the "are they, aren't they?" ending a bit far. The bomb goes off soon after Lilly gets through to Nick. After that we get a shot of Will clearing up the office while the case is still effectively on going. The fire brigade and ambulances turn up at the house. Lilly and Scotty have time to get across town. The father/brother is brought there as well. The press have turned up to see Alessandro arrested. All this before anyone has a clue whether Nick, Kat and the family are OK? More than a little bit of a stretch. Plus, if the girl found the musical box in her locker at school would she not have opened it and listened to it quite a while already, long enough to set off the bomb? They quickly made the leap that the newspaper articles about the previous victims suggested he was targeting them, rather than them just being mementos of the event, before seeing the last bit about Luke Ross. A gaff I spotted was Lilly very quickly switching phone hands during that last minute phone call. Like many of you I don't buy the Scotty/ADA Thomas thing. There doesn't feel like anything is happening between them. Not sure what the idea behind it all is. It looks like Scotty has finally given up on her. Perhaps the plan is/was for some life threatening thing to happen to her later in the season which would force them together again. get rid of the A.D.A...she really is a third letter of the alphabet hehe D? Wow that's cold ;D Oh one thing I noticed that Lilly was wearing Red, which is odd since she never wears red to work. And she was in a dark purple blouse (which wasn't under the red sweater) in the very next scene.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jan 7, 2008 18:02:13 GMT -5
I seriously doubt that KM is leaving Naj, and what made you come up with that statement
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Post by Naj on Jan 7, 2008 18:22:06 GMT -5
I think something was put up in the KM forum here. She got her own production company and her contract for CC was just two more years. Of course nothing has been said officially. I seriously doubt that KM is leaving Naj, and what made you come up with that statement
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jan 7, 2008 18:25:36 GMT -5
From what I have read KM is still contracted until S7 so she isn't leaving the show.
Anyways, when the bomber's brother talked about how he used to look up to him did anyone noticed the look on Scotty's face. Maybe he was thinking about his own brother.
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Post by Naj on Jan 7, 2008 18:32:29 GMT -5
and that's what i just said.
Really I thought the little girl was going to die. For dramatic appeal it would have been a better ending because we wouldn't expect that outcome.
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Post by TVFan on Jan 7, 2008 20:37:15 GMT -5
I don't know for sure, but I believe that when Kathryn leaves, so does the show. I doubt they would keep it on the air without her. In other words, there's no point in building the show around the other characters. I still believe that's designed to give Kathryn a break once and a while. The same thing happened during the 2nd and 3rd seasons of Veronica Mars. Kristen Bell actually got an afternoon or morning off once in a while and as a result, Veronica wasn't in every scene during those final seasons.
Anyway, I did notice that Lilly wasn't in this one much. For the first time ever, though, I was OK with that because the case was so enthralling and involved that I didn't think about her absence too much. Plus, the ending with her sorta made up for it. Also, it did bother me at first that they leaped to the conclusion that the newspaper articles were proof that he was targeting his victims. My first thought was that they were a collection of his acts. But, oh well. I also noticed the phone goof at the end. All of this didn't detract from my enjoyment of this one, though, because I thought the case was strong enough to overcome these smaller missteps.
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coldcasegirl
Lilly Rush
Sleuthing for Clues [/color]
Posts: 2,279
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Post by coldcasegirl on Jan 7, 2008 21:20:43 GMT -5
I think I partly loved this ep cause I was blinded by excitement that it was new, but I also loved it for the actuality of it, too. I got a tad confused on some parts about who was who and what the heck John Henry had to do with anything, but in the end I caught on. I was also really tired b/c of STUPID FOOTBALL. BUT, I liked the willpower that was shown from Lil and the gang to solve the case. ;D And total WHOA with Scotty and the ADA. I'm glad he was tiffed at her for bringing the feds in. She figured out that he ain't scared of what she *might* can do. I wonder greatly what's gonna happen with them though.... And the end scared the hell out of me! I got so worried that I started to tear up. But when Vera came out carrying the little girl with Kat and the mom following behind, I got such a relief! --and a small shock. I was hoping no one was gonna get seriously injured since we weren't hinted @ something bad happening. And right when I heard the ending song begin I totally knew what it was and got super excited b/c I LOVE it! And it went so great with the ep, as the songs always do. So I'm no doubt gonna rewatch it to see what I couldn't the first time ;D
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irishkale
Retired Administrator
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Post by irishkale on Jan 7, 2008 23:17:18 GMT -5
I thought it was a decent episode, not great though. I felt it suffered in the first half by having too many "past victims." I found myself getting lost by having to keep track of the prior bombing victims, the years in which they were attacked, and the locations where they were attacked. Then they threw in the "John Henry" plot where you were trying to guess how that related to the killer... the Tall tale of JH vs. the song vs. the tattoos on the inmate vs. the Street... etc. It became too complicated, in my mind, to follow these two separate threads running through the episode. Now they did tie up all the loose ends nicely at the end. We were reminded of the past victims in the flashback scenes so we were able to see how Allessandro interacted with the Big Box employee, with his boss, etc. And the "john henry" thing was explained. I agree with TVFan in that it was cool that way the story in the 2nd half became a study of the psyche of the bomber, rather than focusing on the victims. It was very "MindHunter"-ish in that way. If I have to find fault with the ep, I think they simply were throwing "too much" into the boat. In addition to the very complicated plot, they threw in Scotty's conflict with the ADA, and then the "FBI JUST GOT INVOLVED!" subplot. Did that go anywhere? It didn't seem like we heard anything about the FBI after that initial scene. A previous poster (sorry, can't remember your name) mentioned that the episode overall felt very "Un-Cold-Case-Like." I agree with that statement! What appeals to me about the series is the escapism that I gain by watching cases from earlier time periods. I love "vintage" music and costumes. The more modern "2000's" cases don't really do anything for me, at the very worst, they bore me! Another turnoff was the extremely dark undercurrent of the "Bomber's Manifesto." Obviously the dehumanization of the little guy in modern business is a red-hot topic given the writer's strike. I found myself sort of "agreeing" with alot of Allessandro's points. I think we can all relate to those feelings. But where the episode goes wrong is that it doesn't show a real motivation for why Allessandro would take it to the next level. I wasn't convinced that the accumlation of bad stuff would cause this guy to commit premediated "revenge murders." If we compare to "Mindhunters" again, that episode became a duel between the Good (Lilly) and The Bad (George.) In "Sabotage", there really wasn't a good counterpoint to The Bad (Allessandro.) This is where the lack of Lilly in the ep. became really obvious. I wonder if KM was sick during the filming? If you listen again to KM's dialog, it sounds like she has a bad cold or something. And WHERE was the hug for Vera at the end? He came out of the house carrying the girl, with soot all over his face and clothes. Lilly could have at least given him a big hug!!!! P.S. -- I do agree with NAJ in that it would have made more drama to have the little girl kiled at the end. But, the scene of Vera trotting out of the house was worth it!
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jan 8, 2008 14:52:12 GMT -5
One thing when victim was describing after the bomb had went off, I think Lilly could relate and was probably thinking about her own shooting as well
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Post by Naj on Jan 8, 2008 18:15:20 GMT -5
The box of the victim had Box Space, Inc. on the box in the Cold Case file stacks. None of the other boxes had that on its box. So what does that mean? There was something ironic I noticed in one of the early scenes. The name of the electronics store was Box Mart. Jibjab.com has a cartoon in which a store called "Big Box Mart" is featured. The video is a satire of Wal Mart and all of the people who spend all of their money there. Makes me wonder if the writers had seen the animation, because it is a little odd that they'd name the store "Box Mart"
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Post by riche on Jan 8, 2008 18:31:51 GMT -5
The box of the victim had Box Space, Inc. on the box in the Cold Case file stacks. None of the other boxes had that on its box. So what does that mean? Actually the box below and above that one had "Box Space, Inc." on them. As did the one in the lower left of that scene. So.... I guess that means it is the name of maker of the boxes. The phone number is 1-800-555-1056, which means they are fake. The labels look a little like they are stuck on (note the one on the left in the 2nd picture is peeling away slightly). Normally those labels are printed on the cardboard.
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Post by 00bomber on Jan 8, 2008 23:55:17 GMT -5
i liked this episode but i'll probably have to watch it again because I got a bit confused in the middle. Also I didn't really notice that Lilly wasn't in this episode as much and I didn't think that it particularly mattered.
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irishkale
Retired Administrator
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Post by irishkale on Jan 9, 2008 21:30:27 GMT -5
Me too, It was definitely an "ambitious" episode in that it really tried to cram ALOT into an hour slot. I'll probably appreciate it better on repeat viewings. i liked this episode but i'll probably have to watch it again because I got a bit confused in the middle. Also I didn't really notice that Lilly wasn't in this episode as much and I didn't think that it particularly mattered.
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Post by coldboneslove398 on Jan 10, 2008 22:17:38 GMT -5
Omg I really liked this eppy hehe. Mainly because I loved the last song that they used, "Apologize" by OneRepublic.
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myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on Jan 13, 2008 5:29:50 GMT -5
I liked parts of the episode. And the final showdown was thrilling. They stressed the moment long enough to get uncertain about the fate of the family and of Kate and Vera, nice work. Though on the other hand, would have been a little too soon to see another member of the team get hurt, at least that was the thought to calm me down fast, before they showed them. But you never now. Life isn't like a scripted movie, so why should a tv-show always stick to drama theory. But in the middle of the episode I actually lost my concentration for a while. I had a bit of fun with that "John Henry" thing, wondered, if Alessandro planted those hints or if they were just kinda mistakes he made, so they could pick up the trace. It was like creative thinking, could use part of this ep as a good example for a workshop about it. Actually they do that a lot in Cold Case recently (noticed that they're using a board more often by now? with pictures of the victim, perps, articles, infos, standing together, looking at it and discussing, coming up with ideas). They do it in other shows too though, now in CC as well. But nevertheless when they made the connections between the victims, telling Alessandro's story I lost it for a while. Didn't get confused, it became just lenghty. I was like, okay, we got it, he is angry and killing people, he blames for bad things happening to him. It was good to see his motives, but it was not excitingly presented, if you get my meaning. Agree with Lillykat, the story was a bit preachy. Though I could understand Alessandro quite well, his frustration and anger, only that I'm not blaming single persons but end up with ranting on a political level, against "the system". But hard to get hold of a system, is it. Not the first time CC has a story showing how economic situation creates a personal drama though, but it seemed more accusing or bitter this time. Interesting situation with ADA Thomas. Don't think it has to be over, but we'll see (or not, but maybe they count on having to end this season sort of soon and hurry to write her out). They do have communication problems in the office. Besides that there is the relationship between Scotty and her, anyway it was a bad thing to inform FBI without consulting Stillman before. This sort of tension between the team and the DA office is there for quite a while now. All in all a good episode, lacking the final touch, but okay and with a thrilling showdown. Though might have paid special attention to the final, because of the song. Nice choice. Ah, and, as Xena fan of course have to mention one more thing: nice to see "Eli" aka Timothy Omundson, aka Luke Ross here. ;D Did I mention I would love to see Lucy or Renee or both as guest star(s) on the show? LOL
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jt
Desk Clerk I
Posts: 16
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Post by jt on Jan 13, 2008 17:54:42 GMT -5
irish: I was going to say that this episode was a dual with Mindhunters but I didn't want to feel silly saying incase noone else agreed=/
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Jan 14, 2008 2:27:55 GMT -5
I thought this episode was unique in that it quickly developed a "race against the clock" kind of excitement in the beginning, then morphed over into a very suspenseful ending. It was as if this episode had the kind of urgency found in James Cameron's movie "Aliens" at the beginning, then into the kind of suspenseful thriller found in Ridley Scott's original "Alien" movie. I found those two different styles in a single episode--especially in that particular order--very creative and powerful. At the same time, I have to agree with Naj and Irishkale that this episode would've had a much stronger ending for me if the little girl either died or was shown to have sustained more injury from the blast. I'm not saying this out of some sadistic intent; It's just that without a serious injury resulting from that blast, the ending turned out "happy" and lost a lot of the sense of Tragedy--and thus the effect of Catharsis--that I tend to primarily enjoy experiencing from watching this show. This episode differs from the "typical" Cold Cases episode in the way there were a series of victims. Usually, a "typical" Cold Case episode would devote a lot of time showing us a single victim's daily life, their personal values, their relationships, and so forth. This process gives the viewer time to develop an emotional bond with the victim and understand how their untimely death was tragic. This episode in contrast showed a series of victims, thus reducing the time we spent with each victim and also reducing the time to "bond" with them. Obviously, because of the storyline, this couldn't be helped. I thought this worked against the episode, because the brevity of each victim's story meant a more shallow look into each victim's life than what we'd typically experience. And with so many victims, I found myself developing almost the same kind of emotional detachment one can get sometimes from hearing of a constant barrage of deaths when watching the news. When a person is hit with such a 'barrage' of misfortune, it becomes easier to devolve the idea that a person is an individual, into the idea that a individual is just a number. It can desensitized one to the human aspects of each event because of the overwhelming flow of negative events. (Which ironically, is the way Alessandro devolved into a serial bomber.) Thus I thought as the final victim, the young girl was an excellent choice because it doesn't take much for anyone to quickly adore and strongly care about such a character. The way her outcome turned "happy", and the superficial depth that was put into portraying the other deaths, the episode ended with much less impact to me than most other episodes. I was also a bit disappointed with one aspect of the final montage. I think an important part of this episode was to convey the deterioration of Alessandro's moral values and state-of-mind. I think many would agree that he was a man who had gone down the "slippery slope", yet this really wasn't conveyed at all following his final, most brutal, and most insensitive bombing. After Alessandro is escorted out of the station and saw the ghosts of his victims, I thought it would've been just perfect to show him descending the stairway of the "20th Street Station", or at least to show him descending the escalators. It would've been nice to show some sort of visual indication through metaphor how much his morality and humanity had declined, and how he was heading to hell for his crimes. I'm placing a "Good" vote. Hopefully, someday they'll release a "Boxman's Cut" of this episode without the sanitized happy Hollywood ending to give it that big emotional impact to an already suspenseful episode they have.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Feb 5, 2008 13:18:39 GMT -5
Anyone notice that when Lilly was walking with Stillman into the breakroom, there was a folder with the name: Morgan, R (Sean's fake mother in Maternal instints)
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