|
|
Post by eurache on Apr 21, 2006 13:50:33 GMT -5
The father, apparently, was upstairs the entire time. This was another thing that kind of bothered me in this episode. Why did the real killer risk getting caught by raping and murdering Kate downstairs while her father was upstairs? It seemed way too risky to me and a little bit of a stretch.  But another thing, since the suspect wasn't really quiet in his pursuit and the father heard noise from upstairs, wouldn't he be yelling down to her and coming down the stairs, if he heard no response from her? I mean if I heard a commotion downstairs, I would yell out and then come down to investigate what is going on? Not to be crude and specific, the father sure took his time to come downstairs to investigate..  I don't know, maybe it's me , but I would have been down there right quick before the guy could shake his stick. :smile10: |
|
|
|
Post by ecooper516 on Apr 23, 2006 21:41:28 GMT -5
Whoever did this new format should be congratulated. It is much easier to read.
|
|
boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
|
Post by boxman on Apr 23, 2006 23:50:48 GMT -5
...Lilly is very psychological in her tactics anyway. There are times when she lies about her upbringing to use it to her advantage. She did this most noticably with Sherry in "Sherry Darlin'." She told her that she wouldn't know anything about growing up with nothing as a way of pissing off Sherry. It worked. And then there was the interrogation with Archie in "Revenge." She equated her mother's alcoholism with Archie's father problems with molesting little boys and child pornography. Clearly, they're not the same, but she made sure that Archie thought they were similar enough that she could relate to him so he would feel comfortable talking about what happened to Kyle. This is what makes her interrogations so fascinating IMO. Thanks for the info! I haven't seen either episode, so I'll keep my eyes open for that when I do. A few little easter eggs, appropriately enough, on Easter.  Ha ha ha... Very funny! ... I was struck by the connections I perceived between the characters and events of this episode and those characters and events in two novels. To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee and In the Heat of the Night by John Ball were both made into award-winning, popular films.... Wow! That's interesting, Cowgirl, and welcome to the board!  Could there be more references to other novels too?? Because Kate and Barbie sunbathing on the lawn not just refers to the two movies, "Lolita", but also the 1955 novel by Vladimir Nabokov that the movies were based on....
Well folks, I hate to do this, but I'm going to have to vote "It was OK". For me, this episode was very "style-over-substance"; and while it was rather moving to watch, there were too many questions and departures from reality that annoyed me. A lot of people have asked the question about DNA evidence. I could make an argument that as the ADA was fired in the end, we can presume there is more corruption between the Philly PD and the DA's office than what was shown. As the missing letter showed that the evidence was tampered with, we may presume that DNA evidence was also tampered with. But I don't like building presumptions on top of other presumptions in this way. If there was solid indication in this episode that the medical/forensics department also had a "dirty lab technician" tied to this case, then fine. We can make the presumption that any DNA evidence was tampered with too. But as the episode was presented, we can only guess at the existence of a "dirty lab technician", thus putting into question any guess that DNA samples were tampered with. I think the episode is much weaker in leaving this area unanswered for. As for myself, there were several other concerns. First, I'm surprised that Tibbs (or anyone else) didn't turn to the Governor of PA for a last minute clemency. Isn't it pretty common knowledge that the state's governor is the only person with any authority to stop an execution at such a late moment? Not a police detective, not an Assistant DA, but only the governor of the state?? It was only a few months ago when California Governor Schwarzenegger would not grant clemency to Stanley Tookie Williams and this created rather big, headline-making news. This created international news as well, as Governor Schwarzenegger asked his hometown in Austria to remove his name from the local stadium. Also, not long ago, the outgoing Governor of Illinois granted clemency to 156 death-row inmates. There is enough information in the public domain for anyone to stop and wonder why the story didn't follow a similar course. So why wasn't the governor of PA contacted when questions arose? (And why did Jeffries and Stillman even bother to meet with ADA Danner? They should have jumped over his head and gone straight to either the DA or the Mayor of Philadephia ... just like how Danner jumped to higher authorities when he was underwater.) Secondly, where were all the death penalty activists both for and against Tibbs' execution? The death penalty is a huge issue, and the argument surrounding it is even more complex and heated when the person on death row is black. Mumia Abu-Jamal sat on death row for many years for the killing of Philadelphia police officer Daniel Faulkner; and this case has raised huge, international attention by both activists for and against the death penalty. Why did this episode ignore such an obvious tie-in to a real-world Philadelphia death-row inmate? Certainly, Tibbs would find no lack of both support and condemnation by activists. I feel that this episode could have been much more stronger and realistic had they brought in the public's reaction to Tibbs' execution into the story. Third, wasn't there any possibility that another mover there that day could have committed the crime? They were all ex-convicts. And if the actual perpetrator was Wayne Nelson, the owner of the moving company, wouldn't it make more sense that his character was also black (thus Kate's confusion with the voices)?? I think the writers and producers missed upon a huge opportunity to present this episode in a larger scope than they did. For one thing, this could have been a two-parter episode, breaking at about five minutes before Tibbs' execution. Perhaps the first half could have ended at 11:55pm with a scene of the Governor of PA in his office answering a telephone call.... They could have filmed two different outcomes for the second half--either the governor grants clemency or denies it--and played the version that the fans on the internet leaned towards. After all, it really didn't matter in this case whether Tibbs was executed or not. They didn't find the missing letter until after his execution, and proved his innocence far later than that. If Tibbs' execution was stayed, then he would remain in jail a convict, and later freed when the newly-discovered evidence pointed towards his boss at the moving company--an interestingly uplifting end to the episode. Alternatively, the second-half could have started with Tibbs' execution and ended in the way it did. (And of course, both endings would be later presented in the DVD release of this show.....  ) With the extra time a two-parter would give, the show could have explored more suspects, presented the public's complex views on this subject, and settled the DNA issue more clearly. Perhaps more importantly, several characters in the story could have been explored in greater depth. The episode could have given more background to why ADA Danner was so prejudiced. Extra time could have shown why Wayne Nelson can be both generous to ex-convicts on one hand, and yet be so abusive towards his daughter on the other. More time would allow us to examine the inner turmoil Kate's dad felt when he switched from being against the death penalty to being for it. Had the show followed reality, they'd realize that Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell was both a mayor of Philadelphia, and both a DA and ADA for the city as well. If Rendell was used as the basis for a fictional PA Governor, this would have introduced a rather complex character deciding Tibbs' fate. Additionally, Philly's real-world DA is a woman. This fact could have brought in more interesting twists into the episode.... All-in-all, even though I appreciate the show for its creativity, I think any prime-time Sunday night show should be comprehendible on the "knee-jerk" reactionary level. It simply has to make sense for those not searching for "easter eggs", literary tie-ins, deeper symbolisms, or larger story arcs. In fact, these things are much more meaningful when the episode's story is factually credible and immediately believable at first, so that's why I need to give this episode an "It was OK" rating.... |
|
|
|
Post by TVFan on Apr 24, 2006 11:27:27 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more here boxman. I also liked your idea about making this one a two-parter. That would have worked so much better. I think CBS has to approve these (but don't quote me on this because I don't know for sure). CBS wasn't even willing to give CC some extra time for the Bruce Springsteen episode, so I can only assume that they may not be up for two-parters as well. Interestingly enough, this episode clearly needed more time (I'm not sure how much longer, but I will know in the next few days) since they went with the no song introduction. It seems that's the only way they get a few extra seconds or minutes. I would LOVE for this show to do a two-parter, and I can only hope that they will in the future.
|
|
boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
|
Post by boxman on May 1, 2006 2:58:09 GMT -5
I would LOVE for this show to do a two-parter, and I can only hope that they will in the future. Yes! And it would be a good way for the show to break away from its "format" for once! Think of how much time they could have given Lilly in the interrogation room with Wayne Nelson! He could've resisted Lilly and Jeffries for a good long time, leading us to wonder when the heck is he going to break down and spill the truth?? That would have been very suspenseful! |
|
Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
|
Post by Disasterfreak on May 15, 2006 23:21:23 GMT -5
Well, you guys have all made such valid points and insightful comments, I hardly know what to say anymore. First off I should I voted for excellent, and I know here I'm probably alone. The lack of DNA evidence and plot inconsistencies didn't really bother me much--not at all really--though they probably should have. The characters were just too convincing for me to dwell on that kind of thing. Tibbs was just too tragic, telling the truth all along and no one believed him, Wayne was just too twisted and horrible, like all pedophiles/sexual abusers, taking advantage of his father/daughter relationship and then cruelly raping that other poor innocent 16 yr old girl for his own sick pleasure. Kate's heartache over her mom and that family broken up by alcohol was pretty well described too. They sort of "hinted" at it, but it was something that really caught me--I could feel their pain. As for Jeffries (brilliant acting by Thom Barry, of course--but I never expected any less), those words Tibbs said to him at the very end will haunt him till the day he dies. The system failed Tibbs, he failed Tibbs--though it wasn't really his fault. And do I really need to go into the ADA part? What a @#%2 %#$%! He was just exaggeratedly nasty, almost like a grown-up lawyer version of Draco Malfoy. When he threatened to "drop kick" Stillman and Jeffries out of his office, I actually hissed. Really I did! How dare he. And then when Stillman said the same thing back to him, I cheered. ;D Like everyone else, loved the moment Jeffries punched him out.  What was especially funny was that he hardly tapped him, but since he's so big it looked like he was blowing him into next week. And I'm so glad he got his ass fired! (the ADA, not Jeffries, of course) Like V, I would've been happier if he'd been disbarred though.  And Lilly's interrogation was by far the best piece of work I've seen from her so far. I don't wanna search for hidden meanings in how angry she got at Wayne--Wayne was revolting, the worst kind of sexual predator IMO, and is there really anyone who wouldn't feel the way she felt, act the way she reacted? I honestly think not--history or no history. Raping kids, or teenagers (who are really nothing but kids filled with raging hormones they got no control over--sorry, teens  ;D), is just... well, unspeakable. And I agree with cowgirl in the sense I always felt they used Tibbs as a scapegoat because he was black, and therefore more "likely" to have commited the crime  . This was very much a racial episode IMO. |
|
samanda
Lilly Rush
Spoiler Queen [/center]
Posts: 3,243
|
Post by samanda on Aug 3, 2006 19:03:24 GMT -5
Re-Air Date: 8/27/06 (SUNDAY)
Time Slot: 9:00 PM-10:00 PM EST
|
|
|
|
Post by longislanditalian2 on Aug 3, 2006 19:08:36 GMT -5
This episode really reminded me of the book " to Kill a mockingbird".
|
|
Athame
Loyal to Look Again
Hiding Duck
Do you like this pumpkin!?
Posts: 740
|
Post by Athame on Aug 14, 2006 22:21:25 GMT -5
Was it just in Australia that this episode didn't have 'Nara' at the start? It simply ran:
Starring
Kathryn Morris
Danny Pino, etc
down the bottom of the screen, as they would with guest stars.
Sorry if this has been addressed prior, but I didn't see any mention of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by longislanditalian2 on Aug 15, 2006 7:44:23 GMT -5
Athame- It was simply aired like that
|
|
|
|
Post by TVFan on Aug 15, 2006 15:52:41 GMT -5
It was done to give the show a little more time. Desperate Housewives, The Closer and a host of other shows do this on a regular basis for the same reason. |
|
Athame
Loyal to Look Again
Hiding Duck
Do you like this pumpkin!?
Posts: 740
|
Post by Athame on Aug 15, 2006 21:18:47 GMT -5
It was done to give the show a little more time. Desperate Housewives, The Closer and a host of other shows do this on a regular basis for the same reason. Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing it up. |
|
|
|
Post by Naj on Aug 27, 2006 21:16:52 GMT -5
I didn't comment on this one first time around but I must say this is an excellent episode. Great performance by Thom in this one and everyone involved. I thoroughly enjoyed the case. The talks Jeffries had with Tibbs was interesting because he just didn't believe him and the execution scenes from the Dead Man Walking up thru the very end and the look on Jeffries face at Tibbs' final wish. This all with 15 minutes to go. But it all resolved itself realistically. So much prejudice even in 1994. It's sickening.
|
|
coldcasegirl
Lilly Rush
Sleuthing for Clues [/color]
Posts: 2,279
|
Post by coldcasegirl on Aug 27, 2006 21:35:12 GMT -5
Yeah I agree with you, NajYou could tell Will realized he was innocent after what he said....gah lee this episode was so sad, I tried not to cry but I couldn't! lol, I get very emotional sometimes...haha, I bet I am the only one...   lol anyways....  I liked it when Jefferies and Vera sneak in to find that letter, I would have done that too, and I also would have punched that dude...man that was not right what he did...ugh Well overall I liked this episode and it was probably one of the saddest I have seen!  ;D |
|
|
|
Post by longislanditalian2 on Aug 29, 2006 19:26:42 GMT -5
Something else that I found interesting the name Faith; the ending song and the fact that this episode orignally aired on Easter; concidence or not?
I think the whole episode was excellent, I hated that DA for with holding the letter that andree wrote. I think somehow that would have saved him but overall this was one of my favorite episodes
|
|
|
|
Post by coldboneslove398 on Jun 21, 2007 12:46:50 GMT -5
OMG...just finished watching this episode on my computer and it was sooo sad. I cried when that innocent guy got executed....such a sad story for this episode. Two people killed and that guy "did" something to his own daughter.....the do-er also didn't even have remorse for what he done....I loved seeing Jefferies punch that A.D.A in the face....wow....i can't watch this episode again or else I'll cry lol.
WILL BE SHOWING AGAIN ON TNT, 10/23/2007
|
|
|
|
Post by krystalnjoeysmom on Nov 26, 2007 18:38:48 GMT -5
I haven't seen this episode. It is one of the ones that is on my need to see list
|
|
|
|
Post by eurache on May 29, 2008 6:27:21 GMT -5
ON TNT - JUNE 3, 2008 (4AM)
|
|
|
|
Post by eurache on Jul 25, 2008 20:45:59 GMT -5
TNT REPEAT - 7/29/08 - 4AM ET
|
|
|
|
Post by stillmanfan on Mar 6, 2010 12:35:33 GMT -5
Just recorded and saw this episode.. That was so good and I loved it when Danner got sucker punched. I kinda expected Nick to step in a bit if Will was going to really go after him but glad Will didn't. Loved it that Stillman told Danner to leave or he'll drop kick him..  |
|
I don't know, maybe it's me 
) With the extra time a two-parter would give, the show could have explored more suspects, presented the public's complex views on this subject, and settled the DNA issue more clearly. Perhaps more importantly, several characters in the story could have been explored in greater depth. The episode could have given more background to why ADA Danner was so prejudiced. Extra time could have shown why Wayne Nelson can be both generous to ex-convicts on one hand, and yet be so abusive towards his daughter on the other. More time would allow us to examine the inner turmoil Kate's dad felt when he switched from being against the death penalty to being for it. Had the show followed reality, they'd realize that Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell was both a mayor of Philadelphia, and both a DA and ADA for the city as well. If Rendell was used as the basis for a fictional PA Governor, this would have introduced a rather complex character deciding Tibbs' fate. Additionally, Philly's 
. This was very much a racial episode IMO. 
..........
..........
...........
;D
