LillyKat
Lilly Rush
Loyal to Lil'
Posts: 1,132
|
Post by LillyKat on Apr 14, 2008 13:07:55 GMT -5
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who found the new guy WAY too much cream on the tacos (as the saying goes). As in, enough. Go away. Bad idea. This ep was sold on the whole "new guy" angle, which I thought was odd and of which seemed like a Bobby Cannavale PR campaign, not a CC episode. CC doesn't usually bet the farm like this with some sort of addition to their cast, and IMHO, they shouldn't have done it here, either. With all due respect to Bobby Cannavale, his scenes were distracting enough to wreck the episode for me given I actually kind of liked the case. I did not like the fact that the introduction of Eddie Saccardo was a force-fed acceptance of a character if I've ever seen one. 15 minutes into it, I started to wonder whether writer Christopher Silber was trying to go back and re-create some sort of Lilly/Kite thing but with a bad boy/cop twist. If so, it failed substantially, IMHO. Eddie is the kind of wise-cracking, egotistical, Billy Big Boots cop Lilly would dismiss, not suddenly go goo-goo for. He's beyond annoying, a slob, crass. The idea we're supposed to grow to like this guy doesn't even seem feasible at this point. All he did was barge in, throw his weight around and bring food? What the ...? I'm sorry, but Lilly DESERVES more than that. And as annoyed as Kite used to make me, at least he WAS a gentleman, decent and mature, not a thug with a badge. Again, with all due respect to Bobby Cannavale, he's not Josh Hopkins. I find there to be zero chemistry between him and Kathryn Morris even though he is an excellent actor. And if I don't see the chemistry, I really am not going to buy Lil' falling for this guy. I also have to ask: what is with this show's obsession with bad boys? Can they not give us something else (like Fritz over on The Closer or Charley on Terminator: the one who's name we shall not say Connor Chronicles)? It is ... weird. And too been there, done that. But hey, what do I know. I can say that, IMHO, out of all three of Lilly's former potential "interests," Eddie came off as the most forced, the most out of left field and the most unrealistic (and I am NOT a fan of Ray, so for me, that is saying a lot). Yes, I lament Lilly has no life. Yes, I lament she's a zombie. Yes, I want to see her change. But this guy is not even in her league, and I actually feel as if she's going to lower herself down several levels to even have anything to do with him. How is that progress? Growth? Change? For the better? I'm sorry, Team CC, but you got this one way wrong for this viewer. And actually, the episode would've worked for me if you REMOVED the Eddie sequences and just left Lilly with the rest of the squad. She was pretty fiesty, pretty much sounding like her old self (which I appreciated). She was leading the charge and had some nice interrogations much like her old self. She maintained what was rediscovered with last week's ep, and that was welcome. Technically speaking, I actually liked the coloring of this episode. Everyone was LIT, and LIT favorably. No more of this X-Files half-dark/half-light stuff (LOL!). I've said before, I like to SEE everyone every once in a while. And the yellow/golden glows of the flashbacks were visually interesting. Not to mention I also loved Gordon Clapp. I was always a fan of his over on NYPD Blue, so I liked seeing him return to being a cop for a day (even if he was dirty). And I thought Petey Sr. was an excellent character. I kind of got into his trying to do the right thing, having tried to live for his son, but couldn't escape himself. There is another old saying: You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Well, IMHO, Eddie made the worst first impression I've seen in a long time. And I have no interest in seeing him return. Lilly maintaining her old sense of self, though, is a welcome return. This ep missed the mark for me. Sorry.  |
|
cellogal
Veteran Detective
Recap Expert[/color]
Don't worry. I'll be polite.
Posts: 710
|
Post by cellogal on Apr 14, 2008 13:21:01 GMT -5
Wow, LillyKat, I couldn't have said it better myself. You've hit the nail on the head: he's crass and boorish, and the Lilly Rush I know wouldn't give him a second thought. I think what they're going for is someone who'll knock down her walls by force, and they're right to an extent: she needs someone who will press her to overcome her issues, without forcing it. Say what you want about Joseph, but I think he was good at this, at least for a while. He knew when to push and when to back off.
But Eddie....GAH. I think the thing that irritated me the most about him was his complete and total lack of respect for Lilly, and for the entire squad. Calling her "Cagney," and then taking a picture of her with his cell phone? That's just plain rude, and not a little creepy, IMO. If some guy I didn't even know was taking snapshots of me without my permission, I'd read him the riot act. And he ran roughshod all over their investigation, and then bought them off with BBQ, and all of a sudden he's golden? I figured at least ONE member of the squad would get annoyed with him (Kat, maybe?) but he brings food, and they're adding Eddie to the will all of a sudden. Blech.
|
|
|
|
Post by longislanditalian2 on Apr 14, 2008 13:34:17 GMT -5
The writers should have just made Scotty her new love interest. You know that would have been better, there is a lot of respect for Lilly. Yeah I am a fellow shipper but I disagree that Lilly is still a Zombie , for one thing she isn't. Is you look back to the beginning of this season yeah but not after this last case. Lilly is actually doing better than before.
The whole episode could have been doing better, hopefully the one in two weeks will be better..
|
|
Collider
Loyal to Look Again
CC Socialite[/color]
Heretic Pride
Posts: 458
|
Post by Collider on Apr 14, 2008 13:40:45 GMT -5
he brings food, and they're adding Eddie to the will all of a sudden. Though I'm absolutely on board the Anti-Eddie train... I would totally add the most annoying guy on the planet to my will if he brought me free food. ;D ...I mean... pft, shallow buffoons. |
|
|
|
Post by Naj on Apr 14, 2008 13:41:13 GMT -5
I can't believe they've done this. As far as I'm concerned ole Eddie Saccardo needs to find out where "Josie chippy" Sutton went to and then move there.
Yes, I loved the old fiesty Lilly. I was thinking the same thing.
tvjunkie said:
True - we are supposed to see it thru Lilly's eyes but it didn't work. It didn't work. Note, I said that twice. Now it's time for ole Eddie to move along. He ruined the episode. I so think this is a terrible idea and a disruption more than anything else. I have no interest in him whatsoever. Nuff said. I have no more to add about the episode.
|
|
|
|
Post by riche on Apr 14, 2008 13:46:19 GMT -5
I'm quoting LK but I could have used almost any of your posts by the looks of it. When I first head that Bobby was joining I went through an initial "who?", followed by "oh him", which was quickly chased by "I can't see him and Lilly together". Of course I only know him from a couple of roles. The ones I can remember seeing him in are Will & Grace and the movie The Guru (I'm a Heather Graham fan). In both those he played a gay guy. A cop in one and a fireman in the other. (Perhaps Lilly needs a gay guy as a best friend for a while.) I knew it was unfair to judge his CC character on those so I was prepared to give it ago. He's an actor after all, playing a character. However, my initial "really?" was always going to be there. Plus, with Lilly being single for so long, and my own feelings (echoed by many here) towards her, any guy was going to be a difficult fit. WAY too much cream on the tacos (as the saying goes). Can you say things like that here?  Starting him off as a jerk and then getting the gang (minus Lilly) on his side with food is a pretty obvious set up. His knowing what the interviewee was going to say word-for-word and knowing so much about the "crims" is further evidence of this. It's now a matter of how long before he does something to change her mind. Let's just hope it is done well. Ooo ooo, pick me  ;D Remember LK, we have a deal  One would hope that standing up to Bobby, to retain her team, might help on that front. Looks like the actual case itself is rightly getting second billing to Bobby for pretty much all of us. Shame. To add something: I noticed it while watching, but in the process of going for some "Lovely Lilly Caps" I decided to check it closely. When the bad cop removes the "wire" from Pete I noticed a line left on his chest. I wondered if that was a piece of tape that was attaching it. This screenshot from the opening sequence shows that it is blood. Now, you'd think that the original cops might have noticed the "void" in the blood trail and investigated it. Whole episodes of CSI have hinged on less.  Lilly caps will follow later, posted in the appropriate place. |
|
cellogal
Veteran Detective
Recap Expert[/color]
Don't worry. I'll be polite.
Posts: 710
|
Post by cellogal on Apr 14, 2008 14:50:23 GMT -5
LOL. And WORD.
And that, right there, should tell TPTB something. This show has always been first and foremost about the cases, and while there are a few episodes where the detectives' personal lives have overshadowed the case (Elisa's suicide comes to mind), those have been few and far between, and when they happen, they've been handled quite well, for the most part. This isn't one of those times.
Well, yeah, you definitely have a point. Especially if it was GOOD free food. And, to their credit, the detectives don't know yet that good ol' Eddie has his sights set on Lil. It'll be interesting to see how they react when they figure it out.
|
|
mitchy
Desk Clerk II
Posts: 59
|
Post by mitchy on Apr 14, 2008 15:08:04 GMT -5
I liked the actual case, thought it was interesting and a new twist on the father/son story. John Pyper Ferguson was excellent and Gordon Clapp is always good value for money. I did like that we saw Kat using her past narcotics and undercover knowledge/experience; but then I'm a Kat fan and more Kat is always good  As for Eddie? I think his storyline is suffering from post-strike haste, to be honest. I've noticed this in a couple of other shows this week; episodes where there was supposed to be meaty personal stuff felt rushed and forced. I'm blaming the need to get scripts out at speed for this. In other words, I'm not dismissing Eddie yet, there's time for the writers and the actor to figure out where to take him and how to get him to where they want him to be. As for Lily being attracted - actually, I can see that. He's a cop with a dodgy reputation, another bad boy. It's her "thing". But whether that'll get sold to us...we may have to wait until next season for it to solidify (or not, as the case may be). Overall, not a bad ep, but after the last two great eps, it was a bit of a "yeh, ok" rather than a "wow, that was great". |
|
|
|
Post by babyv16 on Apr 14, 2008 15:27:45 GMT -5
Meh. Blah. That's what I thought of this episode. I didn't really enjoy it at all. I mean, it just never grabbed my attention, or kept it for that matter.  That's strange though, because I usually enjoy every episode [for the most part.] Not this one though. Lol.  Oh, & I absolutely HATED the new guy. He's arrogant & rude in my opinion. Doesn't seem like he'd be good for Lilly |
|
Collider
Loyal to Look Again
CC Socialite[/color]
Heretic Pride
Posts: 458
|
Post by Collider on Apr 14, 2008 15:27:48 GMT -5
And, to their credit, the detectives don't know yet that good ol' Eddie has his sights set on Lil. It'll be interesting to see how they react when they figure it out. I'm hoping for something along the lines of "...uh- huh... don't let the BBQ ribs hit you on the way out." Or, y'know, maybe not that, exactly, but you get my drift. It'd be the shortest-lived inadviseable relationship in television history. I did like that we saw Kat using her past narcotics and undercover knowledge/experience; but then I'm a Kat fan and more Kat is always good AMEN!!!! So many levels of "AMEN"!!! [ /insane fangirl moment ] As for Eddie? I think his storyline is suffering from post-strike haste, to be honest. Yea, I'll buy that; the strike hasn't done anyone any creative favours, and certain ongoing plot type things have suffered. In a show like CC, it's far less noticeable on account of ongoing plot type stuff often taking a backseat to single-episode-case plot type stuff (as it should do, tbf). I still really and emphatically don't like the guy, and his voice still bugs the heck out of me... but if he turns around and proves me wrong in future episodes, I'll be more than happy to stand up and admit to that. And, heck, I'm hoping they do that; any means by which they can make me turn a negative reaction into a positive one has to be worth admitting I was wrong, right? Of course, given that there are only another three episodes left, and at least one of them doesn't include him... sad to say, I'm not holding my breath on their being able to up their game, believability-wise. |
|
|
|
Post by anneinchicago on Apr 14, 2008 15:31:43 GMT -5
Sorry, but I liked The New Guy and Lilly. He's something different from every other guy she's been into before.
I do agree the episode was meh. And one thing that did bother me was Pete Jr. The way nothing of consequence happened to him. Here was a kid happily planning an armed robbery and everyone was like- gee, that's ok, kid.
Okay, a lot of things me. Here's another. Everyone thought Pete was this awful bad man. No one seemed ready to give him a break at all. Even when they heard evidence of any sort to the contary it was like- oh, he didn't mean it. He was bad and he could never change. Lilly, at least, who has always seemed more open-minded, wasn't and I thought it out of character.
And I thought it completely unbelievable that no one would give Pistol Pete a break. After that AA meeting where he said he was ready to give up? No one came up to talk to him? Not even his sponsor?
And then there's - let's hand Pistol Pete Jr. a box of old letters and suddenly everything is fine? Let's just ignore his criminal tendencies and how he could have gotten his stepfather killed?
Oh, yes. And then there is not one person calling Pistol Pete Jr. on how he treated his Dad? No one said- hey, your Dad has strength of character to mop floors for a living and turn away from a fight instead of being an armed robber?
Who were these people?
|
|
|
|
Post by tvjunkie on Apr 14, 2008 16:55:03 GMT -5
Another thing our gang looks weak and stupid allowing the new guy to barge in and take over they all stand there with there mouth open Weird I'm use to watching them run the show
|
|
|
|
Post by TVFan on Apr 14, 2008 16:56:03 GMT -5
You know, I struggled with how to write this up over at PTR. So much so that I just finally posted something a half an hour ago. Basically, the verdict is still out for me on Saccardo. Clearly, he was over-the-top and definitely felt out of place on CC. He was a caricature of a overused character, and like most of you, I saw right through the show's attempts to set up his future dealings with Lilly. What I had the most trouble with was imagining how Lilly is going to change her mind about this guy (I saw how the show is going to force her to, but I didn't see how the character would come around to this guy since she seemed to despise everything about him). BUT, it's early in this story line, so I'm willing to reserve judgment until I've see it play out further. The problem with CC, they always short-change Lilly's relationships. This makes the deck stacked against anyone they attempt to set her up with. And then you have the basic procedural problem of lack of character growth and personal stuff. I just feel like Lilly is too good of a character to ignore and she becomes a victim of the format of the show far too many times. I don't know what the show has in mind for these two characters other than the obvious, so I'm going to remain on the fence about it for now. I'm a sucker for these Lilly relationship stories because I want something good to come out of them so badly and I keep having faith that it will (just call me the mouse who goes after the cheese and always gets shocked ). I don't know. Maybe I just keep hoping that they'll write a love interest for Lil who is worthy of her and adds to her character instead of detracting. It's possible because I've seen it on other shows and we saw wonderful glimpses of it with Kite -- where is Josh Hopkins when you need him?? There is something kind of epic in all of the unused potential these two shared. If Lil winds up with Saccardo, I have a feeling it's going to be hot and heavy and short-lived. Yawn. I actually really liked the case. Pete's story was well done and I really liked the character. He was trying to do right and he stuck to his guns. Unfortunately, the dirty cop did not. Something about the case reminded me of season 1 and I second everyone who thought that Lil was in season 1 form this week. LOVED her interrogations! Overall, a good episode, but not a stand-out like last week's (but, I wasn't expecting it to be). |
|
boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
|
Post by boxman on Apr 14, 2008 17:59:26 GMT -5
...Plus, personally, it felt extremely out of character (IMHO) that all of a sudden O'Leary would be into armed robbery; there were a billion different ways they could've played out that final scene without detaching from the "good convict / bad cop" vibe, and this one just struck a "...?" sort of chord. And I really did like the character of Pete, so it was sad they never really did him any justice by giving him a believable death. That's a good point about Pete's death. I liked watching throughout the episode how he was keeping his humility, and I agree he deserved "a believable death". Just six months ago, there was a huge armored car robbery here in Philly. It brazenly took place in a parking lot, and two guards were killed at point-blank range. A third guard, the driver, was also injured by broken glass when the robber repeatedly shot the truck's windows in an attempt to kill him. One of the reasons why it made big news here (other than the brazenness of the robbery) is because all three guards were former policemen. The news coming out at the time told how retired cops are actually in high demand from security companies of all types because of the way they're comfortable with carrying guns and having to possibly work alone. With this still fresh on my mind, I too found it hard to buy how O'Leary suddenly and ironically chose to profit from an armored truck robbery. I also have to ask: what is with this show's obsession with bad boys? Can they not give us something else (like Fritz over on The Closer or Charley on Terminator: the one who's name we shall not say Connor Chronicles)? It is ... weird. That's so true! What is it with this show and all the "bad boys"? It's not just New Guy and Ray. It's also Kat's one night stand, and even Scotty. Oh, and you know I'm totally with you on Charley.  Now I could definitely see him and Lilly together. But Eddie....GAH. I think the thing that irritated me the most about him was his complete and total lack of respect for Lilly, and for the entire squad. Calling her "Cagney," and then taking a picture of her with his cell phone? That's just plain rude, and not a little creepy, IMO. If some guy I didn't even know was taking snapshots of me without my permission, I'd read him the riot act. And he ran roughshod all over their investigation, and then bought them off with BBQ, and all of a sudden he's golden? I figured at least ONE member of the squad would get annoyed with him (Kat, maybe?) but he brings food, and they're adding Eddie to the will all of a sudden. Blech. ;D Nice rant! |
|
mitchy
Desk Clerk II
Posts: 59
|
Post by mitchy on Apr 15, 2008 16:15:30 GMT -5
*grins* Hello fellow insane fangirl! Now, who do we have to write to to get more Kat scenes like those? |
|
Collider
Loyal to Look Again
CC Socialite[/color]
Heretic Pride
Posts: 458
|
Post by Collider on Apr 16, 2008 0:51:35 GMT -5
*grins* Hello fellow insane fangirl! Now, who do we have to write to to get more Kat scenes like those? ;D ;D ;D Sad to say, I have no idea... but, if I ever do find out, I may well end up buying half the country's supply of postage stamps for the purpose. |
|
|
|
Post by TVFan on Apr 20, 2008 19:39:19 GMT -5
My indifference on the Saccardo character was really bothering me, so I had some free time this afternoon and I decided to rewatch his scenes with Lilly. I'm glad I did because I think I gained a much better understanding of his character and why he was so over-the-top. Originally, I wrote this about him:
But now, I'm not so sure. I think Saccardo is a perfect storm of two separate things going on: 1) He's very good at his job (and knows it), and 2) He has the hots for Lil.
Starting with the first - we know he's good at his job because he knows the low lives he works with undercover like the back of his hand. He has good contacts, leads a task force (as Stillman points out early in the episode), gets the big busts, and quite frankly, makes his job look easy when we all know it's not. And he's not the only one who knows he's good as Kat points it out the minute Stillman says his name. Problem is, he likes to point it out and that gets obnoxious fast. Now, I'm not well versed on all things cops so this could be wrong, but I think homicide is above narcotics. If so, he might have been trying to make a good impression on the detectives who occupy better real estate in the Philly PD. Plus, well, he's cocky.
This brings me to number 2 -- he has the hots for Lil. The moment he lays eyes on her, he gives her the once over and snaps a picture of her with his phone in a chauvanistic way of telling her she's hot. Later, he seems to continue to go out of his way to impress her. He spews facts about the victim while Lilly reads through the file, he brings "the gang" food (which, I'm pretty sure now was just his way of trying to do something for her without making it completely obvious), he talks to her suspect in yet another display of his connections and his immense knowledge of the streets, and he tries one last attempt by bringing a round of beers at the end. All of this fails, of course, because Lil isn't the "Me Tarzan, You Jane" kind of woman (which should have been obvious by her career choice). But, I do think that his over-the-top-ness was a symptom of his attraction to her and a sorry attempt at impressing her.
If this is the case, then we might see a more toned-down Sacarrdo in the future as he gets to know Lil a little better (I saw shades of this when he explained his connections and then offered her a rib, which (notso) coincidently, was the only moment of the episode where I saw a spark between these two). Plus, I'm not completely convinced that this act of his isn't masking something much more vulnerable (much like our Lil and her act). Time will tell on both fronts.
|
|
boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
|
Post by boxman on Apr 20, 2008 22:51:16 GMT -5
*grins* Hello fellow insane fangirl! Now, who do we have to write to to get more Kat scenes like those? *raises hand* You know, I'm a HUGE Kat fan too? I really hope they don't go into some silly side story digging up dirt about Kat's past, even though that seems the direction they're heading to. Kat's an awesome, stellar character as she is now, and I see no purpose to staining her rep. The moment he lays eyes on her, he gives her the once over and snaps a picture of her with his phone in a chauvanistic way of telling her she's hot. Later, he seems to continue to go out of his way to impress her. He spews facts about the victim while Lilly reads through the file, he brings "the gang" food (which, I'm pretty sure now was just his way of trying to do something for her without making it completely obvious), he talks to her suspect in yet another display of his connections and his immense knowledge of the streets, and he tries one last attempt by bringing a round of beers at the end. All of this fails, of course, because Lil isn't the "Me Tarzan, You Jane" kind of woman (which should have been obvious by her career choice). But, I do think that his over-the-top-ness was a symptom of his attraction to her and a sorry attempt at impressing her. If this is the case, then we might see a more toned-down Sacarrdo in the future as he gets to know Lil a little better (I saw shades of this when he explained his connections and then offered her a rib, which (notso) coincidently, was the only moment of the episode where I saw a spark between these two). Plus, I'm not completely convinced that this act of his isn't masking something much more vulnerable (much like our Lil and her act). Time will tell on both fronts. , I think you've analyzed and explained it well here. He was *definitely* trying to impress Lil by bringing the office ribs and beer, by showing off his knowledge, and by taking that photo of her. Thing is, I also agree that Lil isn't the kind of woman to be impressed by such acts. From having friends that approach women like this (and yes, by being this way myself too sometimes), and from knowing career-oriented women like Lilly, I have a hard time seeing him changing his act, and a hard time seeing Lilly getting over such a bad first impression. He really needs to do a 180 here. Most of my friends who first try "the Guy Thing" with women usually do so because they don't know how to do the Joseph-style "touchy/feelly" I-value-your-opinion-and-intelligence approach. And certainly, the smarter guys do "the Joseph" first before they do "the Eddie", since "the Eddie" can leave a nearly unrepairable first impression... Women here don't need to be impressed by a guy's self-perceived intellect, charisma, or wealth. Like Lilly, they already have careers and goals of their own, and aren't necessarily looking for a man that's going to be a good provider. I think Eddie better have a good sense of humor and a positive outlook on life, because I think that's the only successful way he can come back from such a bad first impression.... |
|
|
|
Post by TVFan on Apr 21, 2008 16:24:28 GMT -5
I just remember Kite coming off this way in the beginning as well (admittedly, not to this extreme), and she came around to him, so anything is possible. She referred to him as an "Ivy League jerk." Perhaps, Saccardo will take the hint and realize that he's going to have to try another approach if he wants to be with her. I don't see him ever being a touchy-feely type, but I suppose there could be a lot more to him than we saw in those few scenes.
Somewhere else in this thread, it was pointed out by several different people that they had a hard time seeing the gang (especially Kat) coming around to him just because he brought them food and beer. In Kat's case, I think it was a matter of knowing where he was coming from since she worked that beat (and she knew his esteemed reputation). With the others, I think it was just a matter of him being a guy and a really good cop. Where they could overlook his less pleasing characteristics because they respected him as a cop, Lil may have been too hung op on his cocky routine to see past it to his detective skills. She's a female, and we tend to base our reactions to others on an emotional level. Not only was this guy showing off, but he was barging in on her territory and one-upping her with his extensive street knowledge. She's used to being the ace detective. I'm not so sure that this didn't get under her skin a bit and I'm also not so sure that she wasn't attracted to him. That may have been clouding her judgment since she wanted to hate this guy, and couldn't. We'll see...
|
|
|
|
Post by jambled on Apr 25, 2008 4:53:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure how I feel about this episode... I liked the fact that saccardo was finally introduced but I didn't feel the case was as strong as it could've been. And I felt the characters were all a little too stereotypical. It just didn't feel as good as I'm used to. The Saccardo and rush interactions were great though, love when she forcibly pushed him away from the interview room and when she did the double take at the filing cabinet. Priceless. I really thought KM got given a decent range to act within this episode. Her opening look at Saccardo when he's taking the pic of her is classic 'wtf'. I did like the character of Petey and thought he was fleshed out but everyone else was just a little... less.
I'd say 3 stars if I was an actual reviewer...
|
|
That's strange though, because I usually enjoy every episode [for the most part.] Not this one though. Lol. 
