cellogal
Veteran Detective
Recap Expert[/color]
Don't worry. I'll be polite.
Posts: 710
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Post by cellogal on Apr 7, 2008 12:56:46 GMT -5
I caught that, too, and was endlessly amused. I find it interesting that , both times,these Rush puns are in the car with Scotty, and I did wonder if that was intentional.
They do tend to be pretty good with foreshadowing, but I've yet to figure out whether it's intentional or unintentional. They could also just be messing with us, as "Rush" is a much easier name to make puns on than, say, "Valens." *goes off to try to come up with "Valens" puns*
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Apr 7, 2008 13:06:42 GMT -5
I like how Scotty didn't try and talk back when Lilly told him that she was driving. I do like how he looked back at Lilly in the woods, but important when she took out her gun. He's scared inside of losing her again.
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myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on Apr 7, 2008 13:44:54 GMT -5
Applaus! This episode reminded, why I liked to watch Cold Case in the first place, and what I'm still hoping for out of whatever weird reasons (never give up hope, huh?).
Of course, hard not to think of Georg watching this ep, seeing that John Smith quite like him tortured women to destroy their will to live, to survive, their hope. Creepy guy. Even creepier considering there was no "suffered in the childhood" background story, he was a sadist, no explanations. And adding the urge, that one victim might be still alive (so sort of connecting it to One Night, ep 3x16)
Just thought, that John would get even deeper under Lilly's skin (yup, there is always something to critize, LOL). Still it was interesting what he touched. Kudos for letting a lot unsaid though, just mimik and gesture and looks can tell many things at times.
I liked the references they made, the video with the girl on the bike (and like LII noticed what song they used there). Then placing the beginning of John's "faczination", of seeing women letting go of hope and die, in "the woods". And maybe there was even more. THAT is something for fans to thrive on!
Well, going to rewatch it for more to talk about, but this ep was the first in a long time to drive me to a rushed first comment.
One more thing: Someone mentioned that John was in custody for 4 days, if I remember correctly, so they had to hurry but it was still possible that Brenda was alive, assuming he had just walled her in.
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Post by riche on Apr 7, 2008 14:40:34 GMT -5
Great episode. One more thing: Someone mentioned that John was in custody for 4 days, if I remember correctly, so they had to hurry but it was still possible that Brenda was alive, assuming he had just walled her in. I think you are correct. I can't remember, did they say how long the other woman lasted? I think Brenda lasted longer than the rest. John didn't break her. She broke him. That's why he made a mistake and got arrested. When John bricked Brenda in she was still clinging on to hope, singing the song. John carried on walling her in. He'd given up. Maybe it was because I was caught up in the show more than usual, but I was a little disappointed when Lilly figured it out and it all came to an end. I thought it could go on for a while longer. The 40 minutes most have gone more quickly than I realised. Personally I don't think Brenda being found dead at the end would have changed things too much. It was unlikely to happen, this is Hollywood after all, but the fact that Brenda didn't give up was the key thing for Lil'. Lilly's look at the end was definitely her saying "this is why I get up in the morning. So people like you don't win." You go girlfriend! (I can't carry that off, can I?) The look over at Stillman is puzzling, maybe there is something deeper between the two. Like maybe he is her real father or he was there when she was attacked as a child? At that point Stillman was stood off to Lilly's left (her left). We see Brenda walk across the shot towards her fiance and Stillman watches her walk past, following her to his left. Stillman would have had to look off to his right to see Lilly. Did anyone notice that John said that he likes the Rush I've nearly used "I'm all about the Rush  " myself a few times around here. Obviously "enjoying the rush" is a well known phrase. I'd say that either it was just the best way of wording it, the Lilly connection being coincidental. Or, John Smith was using it to get further under Lilly's skin. Was his name actually John Smith? There must be a few around. I think we're going to see a sudden surge in people being video editing software for use at home now  |
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Post by scillylove on Apr 7, 2008 15:57:27 GMT -5
Well, for one thing this episode made me grateful that I know how to edit videos myself. It was really good, but then I was expecting that. What I wasn't expecting was how they gave us the Lilly stuff, it was unspoken and an occasional viewer probably wouldn't have gotten it (except for the woods part. That couldn't have been more obvious if they tried). But then that's a writer of a procedural's way of rewarding their loyal viewers, little things like that. So I enjoyed it. I only had a couple issues: First, at the beginning Scotty says to Lilly, "Still having nightmares?" I wasn't aware he knew about them. Which episode did he find out in? Second, the ending was silly. Realistically as soon as Lilly got back into cell phone range she would have called the others and they would have rescued Brenda. I realize that they let Lilly do it for plot reasons, and that I can accept, but even still, when she went in and found Brenda she just stood there, staring at her. And as anneinchicago said, Brenda just got up and walked out, with only minimal help from Lilly. After being locked in a dungeon for over half a year that doesn't exactly seem plausible. Oh, and the part where Scotty pulled John out of the car and started wailing on him, I saw that coming a million miles away. But then again you sorta have to have that scene in the roadtrip routine on cop shows, don't you? Maybe as a biased Scilly fan I would have liked a little more Scilly action, perhaps something spoken, but then again we did get a lot in this ep, and there's no need to push the writers. Overall, I thought this ep was pretty darn good. |
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Post by TVFan on Apr 7, 2008 16:05:22 GMT -5
Just wow!
This episode had so many excellent things that it easily made it one of my all-time faves. It was EXTREMELY psychological, had lots of Lilly, it was very emotional, it was dark, it was twisted, there was that eery silence when Lil and Scotty spotted the blinking yellow light (brilliant!), great use of th beautifully poignant "Come Home" by One Republic as the ending song, and lots of Lilly (I know, but it's worth repeating). This outing was dark -- both literally and story-wise. NICE lighting scheme on this one with the half lit faces and "headlight" effect that would momentarily light either Lilly or Scotty. The scheme totally reinforced how "in the dark" they were on this case and how lost they were in John's half-truths.
There was a lot going on here this week. You had a suspect who kidnapped his victims and watched as they willed themselves to die after he took away the last shred of the thing they held onto -- the things that get us "out of bed in the morning." What made this one so good was the fact that the case wasn't the only psychological element (we knew who was responsible from the beginning, just didn't know the why), but the actual deaths were purely psychological as well. Brilliant! John never actually killed anyone; he just took away their will to live. And it started from a young age as we saw in his creepy flashback at the end. Unlike George Marks, this sicko didn't seem to have a traumatic event from his childhood that led to him being a sick creep. He just wasn't right in the head, which is why he was so fascinating.
John also had a keen ability to read people and he sized up Lilly right away. He rattled her. He made her ask herself the questions that have been keeping her up at night. He caused her to lose her cool once or twice. BUT, he didn't accomplish the goal he set out to accomplish when he first saw her standing over him at that police station in West Virginia. He wanted to break her. He wanted to make her realize that her life is nothing but an allusion. That the only thing she gets out of bed for is her job. He may have accomplished that last one, but he didn't count on her walking away from him with hope. Brenda survived because she didn't let John take away her will to live. She clung to the idea that the people she loved would find her, she kept track of the days with a church bell chime, and she put faith in herself that she was strong enough to make it through. We saw Lilly walk away at the end with hope because she knew John was wrong. All the stuff he tried to tell her she already knew -- it had been keeping her up at night. But, finding Brenda alive taught her something she didn't.
This was one of those episodes where every last detail mattered (Lilly being from Kensington, John not being able to sit in his cell in WV, etc.) and it served as a pivital outing for Lilly. And speaking of Lilly, she looked a lot like her season one self in this this ep., especially in that scene where she stopped Scotty from beating up John (she looked just like she did in "Fly Away").
I completely agree here, LillyKat. Actually, I agree with every single word in your post, but this section was the biggest for me because you put it so eloquently. Also, major kudos to both Danny Pino and Damon Herriman for their excellent performances.
I could just go on and on about all of the good stuff in this episode, but I'll spare you guys from any further ramblings. KUDOS to Jennifer Johnson, Kathryn Morris, Holly Dale, Danny Pino and everyone in the cast and crew responsible for this gem of an episode!
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Collider
Loyal to Look Again
CC Socialite[/color]
Heretic Pride
Posts: 458
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Post by Collider on Apr 7, 2008 16:10:55 GMT -5
First, at the beginning Scotty says to Lilly, "Still having nightmares?" I wasn't aware he knew about them. I could be completely wrong here... but I think his actual queston was whether she was still having trouble sleeping, without actually mentioning the nightmares, and I do think she's hinted at having sleepless nights once or twice previous to this. Again, I could be wrong... |
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pealee
Detective
Ray's Woman[/color]
Bring Back EDDIE:)
Posts: 383
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Post by pealee on Apr 7, 2008 19:20:36 GMT -5
That was amazing!
Me and ColdCaseGirl were freaking out the whole time!
The scene with the woman seeing her baby on the tv and begging 'please' tore me up. And at the end when the little girl walked up to the tv where a home video of her and her mom was on and she touched the screen just like her mom had-I lost it, balled like a baby!
I'm pumped for next week!
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Post by scillylove on Apr 7, 2008 20:15:20 GMT -5
I could be completely wrong here... but I think his actual queston was whether she was still having trouble sleeping, without actually mentioning the nightmares, and I do think she's hinted at having sleepless nights once or twice previous to this. Again, I could be wrong... No, I think you're right. I wasn't exactly sure if it was "trouble sleeping" or "nightmares." But I think it was the former. Hmm, did she really say that though? I remember her once saying she'd had a late night, but she never said "trouble sleeping." Again, I must have missed something. You'd think once anyone on the team knew they'd relate it to the shooting, and Stillman would be all over that, ordering her back to the shrink and such. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Apr 7, 2008 20:16:23 GMT -5
Scotty know's Lilly's been having trouble sleeping he says this during 5X10- Justice.
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Post by scillylove on Apr 7, 2008 20:52:25 GMT -5
Okay, thanks for the info LII. I'll have to watch that one again.
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Post by 00bomber on Apr 7, 2008 21:26:23 GMT -5
This is the first episode I've watched for a few weeks (didn't download 5.13 and 5.14) and I have to say it was pretty good. It did have the season1/2 feel about it and I'm not gonna repeat what basically has already been said.
Although for me, the ending felt a bit rushed, it was like he sorta caved in which I wasn't expecting him to do. I think they could possibly done a double episode with this one.
Scotty bashing the guy though was a bit old. Seriously how many times has he bashed the suspects now? I guess this was different though coz chacnes are he'd get away with it coz there was no one there but Lilly and John Smith.
With the "rush" pun it was unclear whether it was intentional or not but, in The plan from season 1, I remember someone said something about "giving him a rush" (or something along those lines), he was having a bit of a go at her which she realised and laughed.
I'd probably rate this around an 8/10. good stuff
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The Reverend Bizarre
Lilly Rush
10 0011 10101 [/b][/color]
"The way your prophet breaks his bread does not speak the future." - Mephirostus
Posts: 2,605 
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Post by The Reverend Bizarre on Apr 7, 2008 21:43:31 GMT -5
I gave this episode "Best of the Season." I'm actually going to say that this episode was better that "Thrill Kill" and you lot know how much I loved that episode.
First off, creepy and disturbing episode. Parts of the episode reminded me of Silent Hill in atmosphere. The whole entire scene where Kat and Nick are searching for the former residence of John Smith really unnerved me. The fact that it was night, added with the quiet, and the decaying urbanization really added to this claustrophobic like feel. There were no creatures, no shock scares, but the atmosphere will, for me, go down as one of the most terrifying scenes on any TV show, or movie I've ever seen.
John Smith at first didn't come off as entirely creepy, but annoying. Then they show the flashback, and while some may disagree I believe IMHO that John is more of a monster than George ever was. For one thing, we know why George was the way he was. (Constant abuse and neglect by his mother.) With John however, we see no evidence of abuse. He's just walking along, finds a lady in the well, smiles, and spits in it, and then watches her give up. He then describes it as the most beautiful thing he ever saw.
There's something seriously wrong with a guy who finds a person giving up on life to be "the most beautiful thing". I was also disturbed by the fact that the method of murder. I'm guessing that once the person gave up, they didn't eat or drink until finally they died. Thus in an ironic way, the victims sort of killed themselves. John however, trapped them and took away everything they had to live for.
Also wanted to talk about the irony of the woman who was living for God. Did anybody else find it ironic that as soon as she gave up on God, and decided there was no God, that's when John opened the door to let her leave? I feel that if this woman had any faith in God she would have realized that this was God's work. Yeah, it took a while, but she had the chance to be free. Instead she resigns to her own self made fate and dies.
Thoughts?
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Post by TVFan on Apr 7, 2008 22:39:31 GMT -5
I hadn't thought about this, TRB, but you've raised an interesting point here. Actually, her story was the only one I didn't completely buy. I just didn't see her giving up on God at the end. I figured she'd be more likely to just embrace her fate because she knew she was going to be with God. My mom has a friend who is very spiritual. She puts all of her faith in God, and as such, worries about very little in life. She always says that "it's in God's hands." She is looking forward to the day when she can join him in heaven -- not in a "I want to die" way, but in an uplifting way. If she were in this situation, I imagine that she would have given up because she knew it was time to be with God. Now, I'm not saying that everyone is the same or shares the same beliefs/spirituality just because they have a strong faith in God, but I did think that this victim's death was the least realistic. Of course, the fact that John Smith actually opened the door for her and she failed to recognize a possible sign from God was poignantly ironic. Perhaps, she had given up so much at that point that she no longer believed in signs and wanted only to leave this world forever. It's hard to imagine what it would be like in this type of situation, though. Of course, I could probably analyze the psychological stuff in this episode for days. |
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Post by vavavoomya on Apr 7, 2008 22:41:38 GMT -5
I can't sleep the show is still scary a day later So well done!!!!!!!
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Apr 8, 2008 1:56:04 GMT -5
Man, that guy was creepy, creepy, creepy. ... I was so creeped out, I checked to see that the front door was locked. Okay, I am never, ever, ever sending my photos or videos out anywhere. Printing them at home, that's for me from now on. LOL...  Okay, I am never, ever, ever going to rent or watch the movie "Red Dragon". Thanks for the "heads up"! But it's odd that you should mention that movie, because it's the prequel to "Silence of the Lambs". I'm sure you've seen that? There's a scene in the prison where the inmates talk about how Jodie Foster's character smells as she walks by. This episode alluded to that scene when John Smith tried doing the same with Lilly. As the smell turned out to be Scotty's cologne, John was mistaken, so this was a kind of early tip-off that John wasn't exactly as great of a psychopath as he thought he was. Hello - first time poster here Since I've only been here a couple days, this is my first time posting on the episode-specific thread... Welcome!  Ha ha ha... I understand what you mean! I found it particularly chilling that John didn't seem to have any sort of event, traumatic or otherwise, that caused him to become a killer (unless you count the well incident as one). I was trying to figure that one out today. So far, what I think is that young John Smith (prior to the well incident) must've been punished on a regular basis by being locked away in the cellar of his own home. This is why as an adult, he had this clear MO of locking up his victims, plus his own fear of being in a cell. Seeing the woman trapped at the bottom of the well would've been a twisted, but liberating experience for young John, as it was probably the first time he's ever seen someone else suffer from his same predicament. Whether my idea is "correct" or not, I like the way this episode left that detail open so we could imagine for ourselves why John became this way. And of course, what kind of shipper would I be if I didn't mention all the Lilly/Scotty interaction? I love seeing them together in any capacity because they just fit together so well as partners and friends. Whether they ever "go there" or not, Lilly and Scotty are great together... What are you talking about? Go where? Lilly and Scotty went with each other to Tennessee ("Red and Blue"), they went with each other to NYC ("Best Friends"). Where else do they need to go to? Also wanted to talk about the irony of the woman who was living for God. Did anybody else find it ironic that as soon as she gave up on God, and decided there was no God, that's when John opened the door to let her leave? I feel that if this woman had any faith in God she would have realized that this was God's work. Yeah, it took a while, but she had the chance to be free. Instead she resigns to her own self made fate and dies. Thoughts? I just simply thought that she was not mentally prepared for such a traumatic experience, and her breakdown didn't really have anything to do with her beliefs. Aren't there a few real-life abduction cases where the victim had complete freedom to walk away, but never did? I think Elizabeth Smart had this kind of "freedom", but was wrapped up in so much fear by the experience, that she didn't take advantage of these so-called "opportunities" to run away from her captors and contact others for help. I actually found more irony that as much as John thought he had "conquered God" by breaking Monica, "God" did win out in the end by helping Brenda stay sane through the sounds of the church bells. "John Smith", who thought he was greater than God, was also dumb enough to chose a Biblical name for his alias. That's irony right there! |
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Post by glimmerless on Apr 8, 2008 2:40:45 GMT -5
First things first. I LOVE Kathryn's new hair... it's really really pretty, and I like it a lot.
Now onto the episode. It was very interesting... and creepy! Gosh that John character, woah. And watching him watch that woman drown, ergh it was seriously disturbing. So in that flashback, the woman was in this well? In the middle of the woods? That was kinda weird.. or maybe I just missed something
i loved the song played during the montage. And like others have said, yes there were a few parts regarding Brenda's rescue that bugged me, but hey, it doesn't really matter. I mean everything can't be accurate
Overall a pretty good episode. I'm not sure if it's the season's best. But it was good.
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marcovalenslassing
Desk Clerk III
Fan Fiction Savvy [/color]
I am the man who looks again. Discovers the truth from the past, and gives peace, at last.
Posts: 105
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Post by marcovalenslassing on Apr 8, 2008 6:16:04 GMT -5
The episode sounds pretty awesome! Btw, 'Red Dragon' is the remake of 'Manhunter', a way better movie which starred William 'Grissom' Petersen as Will Graham.
And yay for One Republic!
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Post by Naj on Apr 8, 2008 7:46:56 GMT -5
in response to boxman's responses: To bed, evidently. That's where they need to go.  I liked the questioning from John asking Scotty if he ever thought of Lilly that way? Or he was just born mean - thinking of that movie "The Good Son" with McCauley Caulkin. or the movie "Damien". He had that Damien look - looking down the well. www.imdb.com/media/rm3452410112/ch0000666 But I'm glad they didn't go into his background otherwise it would have needed to be a two parter - which they very well could have done. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Apr 8, 2008 8:30:52 GMT -5
Did anyone notice when John Smith suspected that Lilly was probably from the port Richmond area, that Rosie Miles from " Fly Away"?
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" myself a few times around here. Obviously "enjoying the rush" is a well known phrase. I'd say that either it was just the best way of wording it, the Lilly connection being coincidental. Or, John Smith was using it to get further under Lilly's skin.
