Ep. 5.13 Spiders

[The Reverend Bizarre]

Come to think of it, I should have given this episode an OK. The entire episode focused mainly on on Tamara and Spider, hardly paying any heed to Elliot. Then suddenly at the end we find out it was Elliot who killed Tamara, because *gasp* he's half Jewish and needed to clean himself.

I'm sorry to say this, but that's not good writing. That's a Deus Ex Machina. For those who don't know what a Deus Ex Machina is, it means "God in the Machine" or "God out of the Machine." It's a plot device used when a writer needs to quickly wrap up a story, and is either running out of options, or want a quick way out.

So yeah, they could have done a much better job.

[littlelaura1992]

One word to describe this episode: 'Woah!'
Throughout the whole episode I felt so many emotions! To begin with, mosty confusion. I didn't understand the beginning but after watching it again, I now do. ;D
Then, I went on to feel so upset about how people thought that Hitler's methods were justified! It still pains me to think that some people don't accept different colour, religion, sexuality, etc.
After that, I was horrified at everyone's expression as Kat walked into that church! I was ready to enter my ipod and hit them!
By the very end, I was blubbering like a baby. I couldn't imagine Tamyra's pain at being pressured into something like that...especially by someone she trusted. Not to mention, the scene with the little boy who watched his mom get killed? Nobody should ever have to witness that, let alone a 4 year old!
Tamyra herself was such a strong character. I was astounded at her ability to overcome her dad's abuse and even walk away from Spider knowing what she did. That's real bravery.
The case aside for a moment, I was shocked that Kat didn't want Veronica's dad to see his own daughter! Speaking from experience, I think Veronica would benefit from her dad being around. For starters, my mom is amazing and I would never change her, but she can't fill my dad's footsteps and I wish he had shown an interest in my life the way that Veronica's did.
And, the very last emotion I felt for this episode (I know, I thought I'd ran out of emotions too!) was 'proud'.
I was proud that, I for one, am a 'Race Traitor' as Elliot called it. I was proud that I don't look at someone and say they are different, I look at them and know that they're just like me. What's life without a little variety, right? I was so proud that Lilly and co, were 'Race Traitors'. Nobody could do their jobs better than Scotty and Kat and Jeffries.

P.S. I was also shocked that Scotty didn't end up punching Elliot when he mentioned race. Tbh, I think Lilly was aswell. Did you see her look at him as if to say, 'Don't react'?

[LillyKat]

Well, I guess I’m in the minority on this ep as I didn’t care for it too much. This breaks my always-like-Liz-Garcia script rule, but I guess I just didn’t buy the whole kit and caboodle.

The idea this gal Tamyra was in a truly unfortunate situation with her abusive father (played brilliantly by Jeffrey Combs), but was smart enough to sue him for emancipation, yet falls in with Neo Nazis because a guy sits down next to her at the courthouse and said, “Hey I’ll kick someone’s arse on your behalf” …?

Um, ‘kay. Sorry, but I couldn't go with that. I recognize she was desperate, was in emotionally bad shape, etc., and we all do things we never think we would do when we get to a low point. But I guess I didn’t find her situation to be THAT low, to be one that she would turn to total strangers who were obviously of seriously twisted beliefs that she herself recognized to be spectacularly wrong. If anything, she struck me as a gal who would’ve booked it out of there. Back to dad? Ok, maybe not such a great option. But wow, going out to kill people for fun?

Thus, the whole premise didn’t make sense to me and/or required a leap of faith I didn’t feel I could make. That said, I’ve made other leaps of faith with this show that everyone else couldn’t, so perhaps this ep is just evening things out for me.

Additionally, CC does a lot of hate/race/conflict episodes, and whilst they usually do them well, I admit they are starting to wear on me. I feel like I've seen it before, or heard it before ... I don't know ... they don't seem to resonate as much with me anymore.

As for the Kat thing … for once, it bothered me. Normally, I love her stuff, but on this one, it came out of nowhere. If anything, putting her front/center seemed an excuse to contrast her own ethnicity against the Neo-Nazi overtones of the story. That seemed way clichéd to me. And the personal development didn’t seem consistent with who she is (or who I thought, but hey, what do I know) … the idea she seems to have had some sort of one night stand fling with some dude on her Vice beat …wow, I guess I thought she was something else.

I was hoping for more resolution with Lilly’s shooting, but alas, it seems to have been dropped off the map (as usual). We have two therapy sessions with a whopping four lines of dialogue (I think), and the beat-into-the-ground flashback of the hallway in the hospital … if we were having a normal season, I think I’d be even more irritated they’ve once again dropped some serious character development with her and/or strung it out there with this indefinite-don't-know-when-we'll-get-back-to-it-if-at-all vibe ... oh well. My loss.

All in all, can’t say this ep did much for me (sorry Liz … still love ya’, though ... especially since S2's "Best Friends" just reaired for me ... )

[riche]

littlelaura1992 said:

I was shocked that Kat didn't want Veronica's dad to see his own daughter!

Although I don't disagree with you he did say he was about to leave Philly and wanted to see her before he left. I'm not sure that it would be a good idea to possibly confuse and upset Veronica by introducing her to father and then him going away. I do think Kat was against the idea anyway, though maybe she'll come around to it.

P.S. I was also shocked that Scotty didn't end up punching Elliot when he mentioned race. Tbh, I think Lilly was aswell. Did you see her look at him as if to say, 'Don't react'?

I think Lilly was shocked to hear Scotty spoken to like that, as though she hadn't notice he was of hispanic descent, and was upset for him.

[longislanditalian2]

I think this episode hit a weak one since this was the last episode before the strike, maybe the episodes will be much better now since the strike is over.

[00bomber]

I haven't watched this episode yet (from the reviews I don't feel like its one really worth downloading), but I will be really dissapointed if they drop the whole shooting thing and basically have the whole the woods saga come back to haunt us. You would really hope that the writers learn from mistakes... (although it might not be a mistake in their eyes). Right now I've got the feeling that I'm really losing interest in Cold Case. Whether its because of the massive gap between episodes in the strike I'm not sure, but I feel like I just can't be bothered anymore.
I'll still hang around for the next episode though.

[g13]

I am somewhat torn between either liking it or hating it. Though diana scarwid who played the mother did a real spectacular job acting her part as the "hate run in the family." I feel like the other characters like Lindsay Port was more of a minor part and did not do much. Glad it was not a love scene. I thought that Spider was initially in prison from the previews I have seen. Some of the people who posted Tammy was slouched and held upright. I don't know where in philly where she gets killed in the rail and then carry her body to the area where she was found.

[myril]

Sounds like this episode is getting quite a mixed vote.

Missed the goose bumps, so to speak, this story didn't give me the creeps as it probably should have.

Spider was a charming bad guy, but I missed the true devlish charm people like him have. They seem to be nice, caring guys, smart, convincing, having an idea, having simple answers for so many complex questions, showing a way out of all misery, the seducer typ. And what is even more dangerous: they can make you feel like a special person. I've met guys like this in real life, I was stupid enough once to ignore my guts' warnings and paid a price for that, and I have seen smart people falling for them again and again. Yeah, they tried to portrait that, and it wasn't bad, but I missed the little extra touch, that makes you really feel it, that would have made us, the audience feel more like, oh, he isn't such a bad guy, getting seduced as well for a while. Didn't like the background with his mother, though the character of his mother was probably one of the most interesting characters in this ep and probably the best acted. Still, it was too much of a cliche for my taste.

Likewise a cliche Elliot, the underdog falling for a philosophy that actually despises people like him. No matter how hard he is trying to be one of them, he never truelly would be. They only use people like him, and the most sad thing is, those seldom get it. But the conviction scene was the best thing of this ep nevertheless, wish a lot of people would listen to his speech very carefully, because the "wolves" always hide for a long time as "shepard dogs", slowly poisening people's minds with seemingly innocent talk. And it's tought to fight that.

Liked sort of more, how they described the character of Tamyra. Well, you sometimes can only wonder, why people at all fall for certain things or aren't taken aback at the very first moment, but that's life, isn't it. She wasn't quite a hero type, not really standing up against her dad, not really standing up against Spider. She was some average girl. I don't think she found the believes of Spider and Co so wrong, but the violence obviously repelled her. But she didn't know, that they were going to kill someone for fun or out of a twisted philosophy (it was a mix of fun and mission for Spider). She was probably naiv, but so are people IMO, not realizing, that some people don't only talk but mean it. Maybe it didn't come across well enough though. And, as LillyKat I had a bit of a problem with the beginning of the story, Tamyra sueing her dad, hm. On the other hand had the impression, she wasn't really convinced doing it, more like talked into it by whoever. She early struck me as a type easy to influence and manipulate to a certain degree. Thus it made sense to me, that Spider impressed her and that she got into that mess. Actually think, if Spider wouldn't have pushed her the way he did, misjudging his charm in this, he might have turned her into quite an obedient puppet after some time. But who can tell.

All in all a good episode, but lacking some fine tuning.

[jt]

riche said:

Anyone else puzzled by the fact that Tamyra was found propped up somewhere, as we saw at the start, but Elliot killed her in what looked like railway sidings and left her on the ground?

Yea, that did puzzle myself as well although he could have came back and put the body in that position even though they didnt air that part.

Does anyone know the name of the ending song? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Nevermind I found it, sorry about that

[boxman]

This was definitely an ambitious and important episode, and it's nice to read the comments from those who liked it. Still, throw me in with the bunch that felt "It was OK". I've been thinking a long time about what to write here, and I still don't exactly know what the right way is for me to voice my opinion on this episode. I think LillyKat kinda says it best here when she points out that it was a bit hard to buy into Tamyra's character and storyline.

"Back in the day", I've known a small handful of teenage friends and acquaintances who've moved out to get away from broken homes and parents they couldn't get along with. As I watched "Spiders", one young girl definitely came to mind. Almost coincidentally, when this girl I knew left home, she also shacked up with a skinhead boyfriend. But unlike the racists in this episode, the guys she hung out with only dressed that way in a fashion and lifestyle sense and didn't hold any type of radical beliefs. I don't know the details of their relationship, but over a few months they eventually broke up. Then, things didn't work out for her when she moved back home with her mom. She eventually 'turned to the streets' to support herself, then turned to work as an 'exotic dancer'. This whole 'escapade' fortunately didn't last long. Probably just over a few months; and when I caught up with her again, she had found herself a new boyfriend and vowed to never return to that life again. Because I've moved around, I've never seen her since and have no idea how her life has turned out.

One of the things I promised myself when I was younger was to remember the names of people who have touched or affected me in some way. I don't know what it says about me that I can't remember her name anymore. So as I watched this episode and thought of the similarities between Tamyra and this girl I had known, I was hoping this episode would somehow be able to honor my friend's experience in some sort of way. I guess I can take comfort in that the younger females here seemed to all really like this episode. I think stories such as this (and the real-life story of Kristen, the NY Governor's call girl), help to open up younger eyes to a different world out there that's unpredictable and perilous in comparison to a quiet life that they may be living so far. I really think that viewing the tragic stories of other people's lives can help prepare one for difficult moments in their own, or at least to help understand those who are different and how they may have come that way.

So having this kind of connection with individuals who've also decided to move out from home at a young age, I had a hard time believing Tamyra was someone who was pushed over the edge into making that kind of decision. She seemed way too 'wholesome' to me; more like a suburban high school cheerleader than an inner-city girl with an abusive father. It's difficult for me to say this because I like Liz Garcia's works, but I feel that Tamyra was written, cast, and directed too much like an innocent and victimized girl-next-door type. I would rather have seen her portrayed as someone who was living under the heavy clouds of desperation in their unfortunate circumstance to make many major, life-altering decisions at such a young age. Tamyra didn't come across to me this way.

The portrayal of each of the Leland family also didn't help me enjoy the story either. Both Spider and his mom came off to me as rather bland, two-dimensional caricatures. Then again, in my life I've come across some real boneheads too -- racists of all colours -- and so far, they've all been bland and two-dimensional individuals anyway. I'm not sure how Spider and his mom could've been portrayed any different, though I really like Myril's ideas on them and think her suggestions would've worked well with me.

---

Spiders have eight legs, and a swastika has eight segments in its arms. Again, more mysterious references to the number "8" in this series.

[KathrynFan]

i really didnt like this episode, i find with these types of episodes i can onlyy watch them once and then not watch it again,

[eurache]

CBS REPEAT - JUNE 29,2008

[rinab]

Hi I´m from Germany and new here.
my name is rina can anybody tell me something about this page???

Thank´s Bye Rina

[Naj]

Hello rinab!

Are you asking about the episode, Spiders? Adn what did you wish to know? ;)

Jun 17, 2008 7:31:43 GMT -5 rinab said:

Hi I´m from Germany and new here.
my name is rina can anybody tell me something about this page???

Thank´s Bye Rina

[eurache]

CBS REPEAT - JUNE 29, 2008 (9PM ET)

[bdiddy05]

Does anyone know the names of the books Elliot has at the end of the episode?
Other than Mein Kampf and the Nordic Mythology books.

[riche]

Jun 30, 2008 1:49:51 GMT -5 bdiddy05 said:

Does anyone know the names of the books Elliot has at the end of the episode?
Other than Mein Kampf and the Nordic Mythology books.

Hello bdiddy05 (any relation to "p"?). Welcome to Look Again.

If no-one else gets there before me I will look into this later for you.

[riche]

Jun 30, 2008 1:49:51 GMT -5 bdiddy05 said:

Does anyone know the names of the books Elliot has at the end of the episode?
Other than Mein Kampf and the Nordic Mythology books.

This is not an area I know anything about. Our Look Again friend The Reverend Bizarre may be able to say more.

The following books were mentioned by Lilly:

• The Lightning And The Sun (Wikipedia)
  
• History Of The Illuminati
  
• Mein Kampf

Lilly also mentions Ben Klassen (Wikipedia) so I assume there is a book there by him.

Here's a screencap from the scene:

[eduardodelroice]

This episode is my 5 season favorite. I had been thinking what to write here because this episode was excellent but disturbing. a lot of hatred.
I'm gonna try to summarize
*Kat Miller rocks!
*The interview Elliot vs. Lilly/Scotty was amazing!
*Poor Nora
*Spider's mother was a b**ch!
*Tamyra's dad was also creepy

Tamyra was just a nice girl trying to be happy but she was rounded by a lot of evil people and in the end she could not escape that world
I loved the ending! Tonight Tonight was awesome and it fits very well with the case

EXCELLENT EPISODE!

[stillmanfan]

It's really sad that we still have hatred and I think it will always be with us, no matter what.

I'm surprised they didn't see the boy or check the car first when they killed his mom.

I liked the Kat and her friend storyline.

Loved how she defended her self and loved that Vera searched Spider.

Could he really do that? I didn't think he had the right..