KathrynFan
Lilly Rush
Kathryn Morris's Biggest Fan [/color][/b]
Posts: 2,219
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Post by KathrynFan on Nov 27, 2007 18:49:09 GMT -5
i love, love, loved this episode there is not alot of times that i cry at Cold Case eps, but this one at the end when she asked him to set her free was so heart beaking, i loved it,
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liala
Desk Clerk I
Posts: 7
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Post by liala on Dec 12, 2007 16:30:32 GMT -5
I usually don't post in episode threads, but I finally got around to watching this episode, and... wow... that's basically all I can say. I guess my reactions just mirror a lot of yours. On another note, the ending is reminiscent of the book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Well, as I'm not American, I can watch the new episodes only with some delay, so I could see this one last night. I loved the symbolism of the difference in thinking and behavior between the society of the early sixties and the current one about being different in some way. I also loved Stillman taking responsibility in favor of Scotty. He's a true boss and it's one of the many, many reasons why I love this show. But, and it's because I'm quoting this comment, it bugged me that they used exactly the same ending of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I didn't read the book, but I watched the movie (Jack Nicholson, 1975, produced by Michael Douglas, winning a bunch of Oscars), once even recently. When I saw her friend, I understood they were 'inspired' by that scene and would copy it in every detail. Scripts should be original, or make a mention of what they are taken from. That being said, Cold case is such a great show that my overall judgment about it can never change. |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom 
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Dec 31, 2007 0:02:10 GMT -5
It's all been said, but... I can sum up my feelings by quoting Naj: I don't feel she had a problem with her gender identity either. Far from it. I think she was very comfortable with who she was--a REGULAR GIRL who liked to do things a bit different. It filled me with disbelief that such a person could be treated like there was a problem with her, by PROFESSIONALS... geez. I mean, I know it happened, but to see it so openly is just... shocking. How can (we) people be so dumb and prejudiced?  This wasn't my fave ep, but it was a valuable one. And I enjoyed the Stillman sidestory. He's just too cool. I can understand where he's coming from--he's got to a point in life where he wants to step back and take a look around, make some decisions--it happens. I doubt he'll leave the show though, CBL--so you can relax. Hehe, I liked Kat in this one too. In fact, I like her always. I like Lil again too. She's acting like her old gutsy self. Even if she does go mental every once in a while like in 5.08... ahh... we all make mistakes... |
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Post by vavavoomya on Jan 1, 2008 21:14:51 GMT -5
Wow I thought this eppy was amazing
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myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on Jan 13, 2008 7:40:50 GMT -5
Not made up my mind yet, if it was good, excellent or even amazing, but for sure the case, the story of Sam was great to watch. Guess I pretty much agree with most, what had been written here so far, that it's awful to see, how someone like Sam was treated by society, by people around, forced to turn into something she was not. Geee, why can't we simply accept people how they are if it doesn't hurt anyone. Dressing as girl like a boy, having fun with boy stuff might offend a sense of order, but that's it. And great how comfortable Sam was mostly with herself, just the people around turned it into a big problem. Blagh. Though can we really say, things have changed to something much better? I mean, when I read some science articles or news articles about science research I get a quite uncomfortable feeling. Might not ever use such rude methodes like Electro Convulsive Therapy in this way anymore, but are "smooth" methods like drugs or ev. one day gene therapy any better? 30, 40 years back in history some scientists managed to make something like ECT look modern and good and acceptable - actually it is still used as therapy, in severe cases of depression and catatonia, the usage increased even in the past years, though most countries allowed it only if the patient is informed and consent to it. And shouldn't think that back then there had been no critical voices already. Tolerance might be better today, but think someone like Sam would still unsettle many people, make them feel uncomfortable, react dismissive and hostile. She would still not really fit into normal social order, would she? We just learned to tolerate it more, but do we accept it? Just ask yourself, how you would react, when you meet a woman in office wearing guy suits and tie, hair cut short. Of course you find it strange, I would, and be uncertain how to react. And unfortunately we can fall back easily into intolerance, I think. Things might be better today, but we shouldn't rest and do something to keep it that way and to improve it. The more important, that tv shows like CC make it a subject. Okay, I do have a soap-box-phase today, LOL. Sorry.  |
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Disasterfreak
Lilly's Bedroom
I'm not her Ho [/b][/color]err.. Rerun Retard Ho [/b][/color]
Posts: 3,750
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Post by Disasterfreak on Jan 20, 2008 0:38:13 GMT -5
I've noticed from experience you always tend to lapse back into intolerance at first--because anything that strays from "normal" tends to be a little shocking. But if you rationalize it, fight the prejudice in your mind, refrain from showing/commenting it, and keep hanging around the person--you'll find yourself accepting them for who they are. And eventually, you won't even have to make an effort anymore.
The problem, IMO, is "numbers". People tend to get more prejudiced and intolerant in numbers. If people would keep prejudice to themselves they wouldn't do most of the stupid things they do.
Sorry--I'm also in soapbox stance. ;D
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Post by eduardodelroice on Feb 6, 2008 21:27:33 GMT -5
What I didn´t like that much that was Dom was arrested... He loved SAM!!!!
Even he "saw" Sam... Almost never a killer sees a victim...
In "The Good Death" the wife killed her husband and wasn´t arrested, why had Dominic to be arrested?
Apart from that, I like it a lot.
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Post by eurache on May 5, 2008 7:54:47 GMT -5
CBS REPEAT - RE-AIRING ON MAY25TH, 2008
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Post by eurache on May 19, 2008 6:37:51 GMT -5
CBS REPEAT - RE-AIRING JUNE 1, 2008
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Post by coldcasefan2009 on Jan 6, 2009 14:31:52 GMT -5
Now i know this case was 'closed' and i hate to 'open' it up again, but it played a week ago and i didn't quite understand the ending.
They 'arrested' Dom and from the last scene, Sam was already dead basically and he hugged her and she died in his arms. how is he the killer? the hospital had done the deed! (Now maybe it was my crappy version of CBS editing out the ending at that part for commercial airtime but i didn't see him do anything but hug her and then the scene cut to the ending montage)
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myril
Veteran Detective
Merry One [/color][/center]
Posts: 795
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Post by myril on Jan 6, 2009 16:54:38 GMT -5
He choked her with a pillow. They just show though how he takes the pillow and bends down.
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Post by eduardodelroice on Jan 6, 2009 19:06:51 GMT -5
He choked her with a pillow. They just show though how he takes the pillow and bends down. This episode could have been the best of the season for me but I hated it! because of the end... I understand what ccfan2009 means... and more that I watched THE GOOD DEATH where the wife killed her husband and she was not arrested  |
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Post by coldcasefan2009 on Jan 7, 2009 12:03:39 GMT -5
yea when it repeated here on local they didn't even show a pillow, just two inaudible words coming through her mouth and a hug, he laid her down and skip to the ending scene. must've been 'edited for time' i hate that, always the reruns get edited out.
It was a repeat shown as the third Cold Case episode a week, on myTSN (local DTV channel 44-2) so i was likely to have been edited given a different network airing it. myTSN plays a lot more commercials and a lot of shows get edited. it was an earlier ep and i have just discovered this show after season 6 came out.
She was dying anyways though, i don't think she would've lived long in the condition she was in. sad... i would've never pictured the 1960s so dark. congrats to Cold Case for giving a glimpse into the real instead of the hype!
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Post by eduardodelroice on Jan 7, 2009 12:12:09 GMT -5
yea when it repeated here on local they didn't even show a pillow, just two inaudible words coming through her mouth and a hug, he laid her down and skip to the ending scene. must've been 'edited for time' i hate that, always the reruns get edited out. It was a repeat shown as the third Cold Case episode a week, on myTSN (local DTV channel 44-2) so i was likely to have been edited given a different network airing it. myTSN plays a lot more commercials and a lot of shows get edited. it was an earlier ep and i have just discovered this show after season 6 came out. She was dying anyways though, i don't think she would've lived long in the condition she was in. sad... i would've never pictured the 1960s so dark. congrats to Cold Case for giving a glimpse into the real instead of the hype! Hi again ccfan2009... Me as a CCFan that has watched all the episodes, I really hated this episode... Because of the ending. There was character developement and everything(Tom & the girl's dad were awesome) but I mean... Dom was not like a bad person at all!!!! And I will never forget they could forgive the killer in "The Good death" (I can't even understand how that episode won the award of best season 4 episode) apart from the stupid ending, It was one of the best cold case episodes ever! |
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Post by coldcasefan2009 on Jan 7, 2009 15:15:35 GMT -5
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Jan 7, 2009 15:32:35 GMT -5
Quite possibly enough of it could lead to it, if not properly administered corrected. Things do happen, but Sam could have also been heavily sedated at that time for her to be like that.
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myril
Veteran Detective
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Post by myril on Jan 8, 2009 4:24:48 GMT -5
The conclusion of no brain damage quite probably is based on experiments with animals and finding no visible damage in the brain tissue. As well they migh have concluded it, because in most cases their seem to be no lasting negative effects. Memory loss is the most reported, unwanted effect, but they say, mostly the memory loss is only short time. A few people though report, they had a severe loss of memory, forgetting 10, 20 or even 30 years of their lives, things like that they have children, loss of learned skills and knowledge. They have no idea yet, how it actually works, but we in general have still little idea, how our brains work. Neuroscience though is now a booming subject, and maybe with nowadays and new methods they will figure out more one day.
At the beginning of the use of ECT people were not regular sedated. I'm not sure, how widespread it was in the 50s to do so. The effects shown on Sam can as well result from ECT, or it was a mix of it.
Besides that ECT might look like an awful method, reminding us more of torture than helpful treatment, I think the real scandal about Sam's case was, that her "deviant" behavior was treated like a mental disorder. Said it before, we shouldn't think we're so much wiser today and beyond doing such things. Just look up some discussions about transgender. And some people, it seems to me, run to a psychiatrist the moment their kids show a bit more of defiance than they think should be normal.
I doubt, that Sam would have died of the treatment, actually it seemed, that the hospital had some experience with it, they knew, what they were doing. The main point for Sam and Dom was, that Sam felt like she was losing her true personality and that she couldn't do anything about it. The tragedy is, Sam might quite likely have survived the treatment, perhaps would have been dismissed at some time even. She might have adapted, though can speculate that she would have suffered depression or other mental problems as a follow-up for the rest of her life, being forced to be someone she wasn't. Given time you can wonder though, if she might not have even recovered in some ways after some time.
That is a different situation from the case in "Good Death", where the victim was likely dying. Our morals of course make us feel very sympathic for Dom, but legally it would be hard to work with a defence based on assisted suicide (aka Euthanasia, ancient greek for good death). Assisted suicide is legal in a few countries, though not in Pennsylvania.
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Post by eduardodelroice on Jan 8, 2009 4:36:01 GMT -5
That is a different situation from the case in "Good Death", where the victim was likely dying. Our morals of course make us feel very sympathic for Dom, but legally it would be hard to work with a defence based on assisted suicide (aka Euthanasia, ancient greek for good death). Assisted suicide is legal in a few countries, though not in Pennsylvania. I know what you mean myril, but still they should have arrested the wife too since euthanasia is not legal in Philadelphia and Tom was such a likeable person, not at first but later he showed he was a great person |
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Post by Electrophile on Jan 9, 2009 22:25:09 GMT -5
A lot of people forget that up until recently (by this I mean 20-30 years ago), there were many things considered mental illnesses that today are not. Sexuality issues, depression, anorexia, bulemia, depression, alcoholism/drug addiction.....not to mention a host of other innocuous things like not being very outgoing (not necessarily indicative of anything problematic), being moody, doing poorly in school, not wanting be like other girls/boys.....it didn't take much back in the 50s-60s and earlier to get you sent off to an asylum. If you didn't conform, they took that to mean something was wrong with you, because why wouldn't a perfectly normal person want to be like all the other perfectly normal people?
I've done a lot of research on the history of institutionalization in this country and you'd be shocked what got people sent there, often times for no reason at all.
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myril
Veteran Detective
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Post by myril on Jan 10, 2009 16:30:00 GMT -5
Hm, Electrophile, some of what you mention is still categorized as mental disorder, like depression, anorexia, bulemia, and alcoholism/drug addiction in a way too, you don't get automatically instituationalized for that though. Mental disorder and mental illness might be seen by some though as not quite the same, it's a question who you ask. Agree though, that looking into the history of psychiatry and institutionalization can make one only wonder, what they were thinking at times. Wonder at best, it can be shocking and scary. Luckily definitions of what is normal and what is not, of what should be treated and what is just some minor quirk, what is ill and what is healthy do change. They can change again though too. When I see the fascination with genetics and recently neuroscience I get a bit of creeps occasionally. Ooops, but maybe shouldn't turn this into a discussion about psychology and psychiatry.  |
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