6.05 Shore Leave

[Collider]

Oct 27, 2008 13:46:39 GMT -5 @riche said:

The stapling scene has, of course, been mentioned and it was great but I did notice one thing. Nick said "last week", referring to the time Will and Scotty cut his tie. 1 week felt too short to me. I'm not suggesting that each show equals a week, or that the tie cutting being from 3 episodes ago dictates a time span between them, but it didn't seem right. If Nick had said "a couple of weeks ago", giving a fair bit of wiggle-room, it would have sounded better.

I didn't notice this at the time, but when it was later pointed out to me, it did seem odd. I'm almost positive there was no messing around with the air-dates - so far as I could tell from the sides and what little I know about the shooting schedule - the first five episodes have thus far aired in the same order they were always intended to be aired in, so it wasn't that.

I could maybe buy "three episodes = less than a week"... but not so much with the episodes as they progressed. "Wednesday's Women" in particular (possibly by virtue of the roadtrip aspect and the Saccardo subplot, but really as a whole, too) had a definite feel of being more than a day or two in length. So, unless they got all three jobs one after the other, with less than a day in between... the timing does seem odd.

Anyone bored enough to count the number of 'night shots' we got through those three episodes?

[cellogal]

Oct 27, 2008 13:46:39 GMT -5 @riche said:

The stapling scene has, of course, been mentioned and it was great but I did notice one thing. Nick said "last week", referring to the time Will and Scotty cut his tie. 1 week felt too short to me. I'm not suggesting that each show equals a week, or that the tie cutting being from 3 episodes ago dictates a time span between them, but it didn't seem right. If Nick had said "a couple of weeks ago", giving a fair bit of wiggle-room, it would have sounded better.

I agree, RichE. I found it hard to believe that "Wednesday's Women" and "Roller Girl" all took place in a span of less than a couple of weeks. Timelines on TV shows only seem to work when things are less than specific, and that line could have easily been removed or modified as you suggested.

[riche]

Oct 27, 2008 14:16:51 GMT -5 Collider said:

I could maybe buy "three episodes = less than a week"... but not so much with the episodes as they progressed. "Wednesday's Women" in particular (possibly by virtue of the roadtrip aspect and the Saccardo subplot, but really as a whole, too) had a definite feel of being more than a day or two in length. So, unless they got all three jobs one after the other, with less than a day in between... the timing does seem odd.

Yeah, the WW road trip in particular made that episode seem likely to be cover a longer span of time.

Anyone bored enough to count the number of 'night shots' we got through those three episodes?

Not yet, give me a chance ;D

I tend to go by outfits, Lilly's of course

In this Lilly went from a blue shirt, to an identical looking but biege one, to a blue striped one (first scene at Nora's house), to a dark purple one, ending on the biege one. To me that suggests at least 3 days.

Oct 27, 2008 14:17:56 GMT -5 cellogal said:

I agree, RichE. I found it hard to believe that "Wednesday's Women" and "Roller Girl" all took place in a span of less than a couple of weeks. Timelines on TV shows only seem to work when things are less than specific, and that line could have easily been removed or modified as you suggested.

The scene was fairly throw-away, it didn't have any wider context. Maybe it got snipped from an earlier episode.


I noticed how Lilly did a certain amount of sideways looking during the chat with Nora about being together for a short time and missing someone. Thinking about Eddie?

[cellogal]

Oh, I hope not. 'Cause, y'know, Lil thinks about the case more often than not. But if she was, it was probably just acknowledging the similarity between her fling with Saccardo and Nora's fling with Tully. Short-lived thing that one can look back on with rose-colored glasses, so to speak. Her line to Nora about "he didn't leave you, he was taken from you" seemed to say that she's figured out the difference between why Saccardo left her and why everyone else did.

[riche]

Oct 27, 2008 14:38:06 GMT -5 cellogal said:

Oh, I hope not. 'Cause, y'know, Lil thinks about the case more often than not. But if she was, it was probably just acknowledging the similarity between her fling with Saccardo and Nora's fling with Tully. Short-lived thing that one can look back on with rose-colored glasses, so to speak. Her line to Nora about "he didn't leave you, he was taken from you" seemed to say that she's figured out the difference between why Saccardo left her and why everyone else did.

I think Nora's comments struck a chord with Lilly. Eddie was taken away, and he made it very clear that he wouldn't be going otherwise.

I have to disagree with the "fling with Saccardo" part, there was more to it than that. It was short-lived but there was definitely something more there.

[cellogal]

Well, Nora obviously thought her thing with Jimmy was more than a fling, too, since she was still kinda hung up on him after 50 years. So she'd also disagree with my description. I'm just callin' it as I see it.

[riche]

I would tend to take "fling" to mean not only short-lived but fairly meaningless. In the case of these two pairing they were short-lived, but only due to circumstance.

[cellogal]

Such is the draw of short-lived relationships that end due to circumstance. You can make all sorts of assumptions about how wonderful it would have been if not for [insert unexpected event]. Who knows? Nora and Jimmy might have dated for a couple months and then discovered that they hated each other. It's so much more romantic when circumstances interrupt than when something as pesky as irreconcilable differences do, hence, Nora's rose-colored glasses when thinking of Jimmy. (Being left with his son definitely couldn't have helped matters).

Anyway, I didn't buy the love story with Jimmy and Nora. It was sweet, it was touching, but, like you said, the "he's the love of my life" thing was far-fetched.

[elodieusa]

I really liked but sadly due to watching it only on my computer (and synchronizing did not work well), I could not fully enjoy it.
I actually also liked the parrallels between Nora/Lilly, they were nice in the sense that Lilly again is not breaking down...but maybe realizes that things are ok.
You know when you keep on watching a show and you're afraid that the main character will go back to depression - that's how I feel ;-) even though a bit of drama is always nice...
back to the episode:
The love story between the two was one of those "what could have been" moments. I do believe that if he had gone back they would have tried it and then who knows? The reason why she is still hung on to him could also be because of the baby...and finally the thought that he did not leave her...I agree with the fact it is just all more romantic to keep a memory but hey, maybe they would have been lucky and kept the rose glasses on during their relationship...:-))))
I'm just babling...
On another note, I like that they are doing more different pairings, Lilly and Kat working together on several scenes, I do hope for a bit more friendship between those two...
I also liked that the prank is being carried on (would be nice if it would be for the entire season - maybe a joke from the writers letting us know that they CAN do follow-ups ;-))
The subject of the case itself was very moving.
Again for me a great episode of CC!

[longislanditalian2]

I don't think that the Lillyardo relationship is the samething that Nora/Jimmy had. The La bamba thing is a reference to that singer: Richie Valens whom died in 1959, but he was of mexican descent quite possibly this could also be a reference to Danny Pino's guest stint on " The Shield" playing a Mexican Killer.

[mitchy]

Loved this episode to bits, I thought it was excellent. The flashback scenes were very well done and I loved the way the black and white was melded with the modern day colour for the character flashbacks.

I had no problem with the Tully/Nora relationship at all - either I'm less cynical that the rest of you or older, I'm not sure. But love at first sight can happen so, as I say, I had no problems with it. And plenty of girls had one night encounters with soldiers and sailors at that time and ended up pregnant and not all of them were lovely womans.

The tie-stapling-sign-on-back revenge had me laughing so hard, I had to stop playback for a minute, because I couldn't hear the dialogue over my own chortling! And hey! Is this a first? Cold Case does continuity! Which reminds me - regarding the "last week" line referring to when Scotty and Will cut Vera's tie, it occurs to me that it could have been planned to air in a different order but in the end they went with the production order. Would have been too late at that point to change that line, assuming anyone knew of it or cared.

I thought John Finn did some outstanding work in the end interrogation scene. It is so good to see Stillman at his fiercest best, reminding you that not only was he a military man, but didn't get to his current rank by being a soft touch.

The guest actors were all excellent, in both the modern scenes and the flashbacks. Kudos all round.

Yep, I really liked this one. It seems that CC is on a real roll.

[zoé]

It was a strong episode and a cold case always tastes better when it's not just about catching the doer but also about restoring the victim's honor and giving closure to the close ones.

I really liked the Snow character and the relationship between him and Tully. Everyone seemed to doubt him (even Tully when he wondered what if he ends up dead) but hopefully Tully followed his guts and Snow turned out a hero who saved many lives. He was more compelling for me than Tully because he had fears but enrolled nonetheless, whereas Tully was kind of one-dimensional (a tad annoyingly) perfect character.

The B&W flashbacks and the 50s reconstruction were really nice. I am not a big fan of the B&W figures in the color shootings though. I preferred how they mixed colors and B&W in Colors or Family 8108.

I loved that we finally got more Stillman and that last interrogation scene was awesome (I added screencaps in the appropriate thread) but is it too greedy that I wished it were something besides war stuff?

I've noticed too the messed up tie war timeline and I thought I misunderstood. Another timeline thing sounded weird, when Lilly says to Nora, the second time she interrogates her:
so I start thinking maybe Tully does go AWOL and then he finds out you're pregnant and wants to leave you
Is that what she really said ? Because this makes no sense to me, I thought they made sure Jimmy died during "shore leave" so he couldn't know she was pregnant.

I agree with everyone with the love story/secret pregnancy a bit farfetched. It was a mix-up of the Hen house and Sandhogs repacked in a couple of hours. However, I always feel for Lilly, with all her abandonment issues, when she's so eager to break the news and make sure the girls know that they weren't abandoned (like the reunion scene in Family where, come to think of, there were another Jimmy victim and a secret pregnancy). Nora has kept her rose colored glasses while Alice in Sandhogs didn't, and that didn't bother me that much (and yet I am old and cynical...). I guess time passes differently and stretches out when you know it is limited. I saw too the parallel between Jimmy/Nora and Lil/Eddie accelerated date before he was "shipped off" to his undercover job. Let's just hope the outcome won't be the same!

I don't know how I end up typing so much when all I do is just second what everyone else said before… anyway, another good episode!

[riche]

Oct 28, 2008 6:07:21 GMT -5 zoé said:

I've noticed too the messed up tie war timeline and I thought I misunderstood. Another timeline thing sounded weird, when Lilly says to Nora, the second time she interrogates her:
so I start thinking maybe Tully does go AWOL and then he finds out you're pregnant and wants to leave you
Is that what she really said ? Because this makes no sense to me, I thought they made sure Jimmy died during "shore leave" so he couldn't know she was pregnant.

That is what Lilly said.

Were they really certain exactly when Tully died? They knew he went missing around that time and had only just been found, dead. So the version of events Lilly put to Nora was plausible.

Putting forward the idea that he returned to Nora and then left her because she was pregnant forced Nora to defend Tully and tell the truth.

[boxman]

Oct 26, 2008 23:15:48 GMT -5 Electrophile said:

Yeah, I loved the episode Honor. One of the few episodes that had me crying at the end. My father was lucky enough to not get drafted into Vietnam, but many of his high school friends did end up there, some were POWs, some were MIAs, the rest KIAs. So whenever anyone mentions Vietnam around him, he gets very quiet and tells people to change the subject. So the era of Vietnam has always been one that intrigues me and so I was drawn to that episode from second 1.

That's very interesting. I don't hear many stories from that time about people like your father who were able to avoid the draft, yet to have many friends end up going. In fact, I think that's the first time I've ever heard of that.

[eurache]

Back then they had deferments, my brother was going to college so he was deferred for awhile, then they did that lottery and his number was shown even tho he was older than 25 yrs old. So, he decided to join the Army reserves and was in basic training, by the time he finished his training and term; Vietnam was ending...

Also, Lot of Boomers had burnt their draft cards and some moved out of the country or went to Canada to avoid the draft. It was a sad era and a war that should have not happened.

There are sites about Vietnam draft and their lottery system..

Vietnam Lottery[/b].

[eduardodelroice]

EXCELLENT
Happened the same thing that happened with Wednesday's women... at first just did not like it but in the end was perfect!
I loved this episode... in the end we had a wonderful instrumental song! and the victim was seen more than just 1 second. Vera was funny. Stillman was wow!. This season is so good
The love story was like a soap opera but nice enough
In the end the only thing I did not understand what was the problem with the gun and the sarge?

[cellogal]

If I remember right, the deal with the gun was that Max stole it and pawned it, but Snow was accused of the crime. Jimmy, thanks to Nora's generous gift, was able to buy the gun back. He took it back to Sgt. Chaney to prove that Snow was innocent and threatened to take the knowledge that Sgt. Chaney was trying to wash Snow out of the Corps (blatantly against the code of conduct) to their Captain. That's when the fight broke out. Hope this helps.

[eduardodelroice]

Oct 28, 2008 10:58:04 GMT -5 cellogal said:

If I remember right, the deal with the gun was that Max stole it and pawned it, but Snow was accused of the crime. Jimmy, thanks to Nora's generous gift, was able to buy the gun back. He took it back to Sgt. Chaney to prove that Snow was innocent and threatened to take the knowledge that Sgt. Chaney was trying to wash Snow out of the Corps (blatantly against the code of conduct) to their Captain. That's when the fight broke out. Hope this helps.

Thanks cellogal... I did understand that but there was a man that I thought was Snow but now I see Snow died.... I will have to rewacth the ep... a man that Scotty interviewed.. it was not the sarge and because of him was told the Memphis-ticket part.... It wasnot the one in the stripper bar... I will rewatch it

The scenes were well made and the ending... GREAT! One of the best on this show

[SamIam]

i was so glad to finaly get to see this episode! It was really good. I loved the parts with the Vera pranks and it was a really good plot. I saw it so late I think everyone already said everything i need to say. I really think that this seaon is going good...much better than season 5. We didn't see as much Lilly in this episode, but at least she's not all depressed like last season.
<3 Sam

[Electrophile]

Oct 28, 2008 7:54:22 GMT -5 boxman said:

Oct 26, 2008 23:15:48 GMT -5 Electrophile said:

Yeah, I loved the episode Honor. One of the few episodes that had me crying at the end. My father was lucky enough to not get drafted into Vietnam, but many of his high school friends did end up there, some were POWs, some were MIAs, the rest KIAs. So whenever anyone mentions Vietnam around him, he gets very quiet and tells people to change the subject. So the era of Vietnam has always been one that intrigues me and so I was drawn to that episode from second 1.

That's very interesting. I don't hear many stories from that time about people like your father who were able to avoid the draft, yet to have many friends end up going. In fact, I think that's the first time I've ever heard of that.

My father was declared 1-Y, which basically meant the Vietcong would have to have been marching down Michigan Ave. in Chicago for him to see combat. He considers himself more lucky than I think he can accurately put into words.