Ep. 4.18 A Dollar, A Dream

[longislanditalian2]

I just thought of something during 199 a movie came out" City of Angels" about a man whose an angel that falls in love with a human one day he becomes human but the woman he loves is hit by a truck and dies leaving him all alone feeling guilty

I saw a simliarity between this movie and what had happened to Jefferies how he was somewhere else and his wife by coincidence hit by a truck and died. Especially with the song at the end that was used in the movie,.

[coldfan74]

thanks for welcoming me :-)

just a small background, my parents worked in a staple factory during the 70's and ran a small business in the area during the 80's.
i was a latchkey kid like most kids in the neighborhood. we lived in one roach infested tenemant to another attending the same public schools with the other kids that were ridiculously underfunded and lacking. one neighbor upstairs was a mom with a son a little younger than me. i remember he offered me pot with his homemade pipe out of toilet tissue tubes. he tended to burn out a lot at 10 because his mom worked a lot or doing something. i can't verify their biography because it's what THEY revealed to me but from my understanding she was a widower from a husband who died in vietnam. their place was a mess. not much furniture and they didnt stay very long either. (less than a year for sure)

a year after that, another woman with a daughter who was at least 8 at the time lived in the same building. the daughter was weird in a disturbing way though but the story was similar. that apartment building was run down and there were always people like them with similar backgrounds that rotated in and out of those units in a few months time.

my parents ran a shop and hired a woman named "joyce" whom worked for us for 20 years! she had 2 daughters 3 and 9 at the time in 87. joyce for sure lived in cars before once or twice with her girls before. her husband was a bastard. she wouldve been probably considered "pale color" to a few others but she was loyal and hard working and anything but. ill stop there.


btw please dont take my replies as an attack. i do validate what you are saying. i have high standards in a lot of things myself.
and i DEFINITELY understand from your point of view in how you viewed this program. for me, i was able to ignore a lot of the plot holes because a show like this generally allows me to do so.
for example, i would normally ignore it if i had to consider the reality that an attractive woman like lily can solve a case that was never solved years before in a short span of time. heeehee
im not a big TV fan for a lot of reasons and this show managed to hook me in some way. i like the format, theme the double casting of characters and the special effects not to mention that every story is different with fresh characters and actors.

for what it's worth, if im replying to messages on forums, it means i found something to be engaging. for example, i'm really not interested in following the personal lives of the main characters like their relationships etc. i watch a show for it's entirity. to be able to "discuss" it online makes it enjoyable. :-)

i do agree with you that det jeffries scenes last night were a little distracting. but i think most storylines need some sort of relief now and then. if i hadnt seen "bad night", i wouldve been completely confused as to what that was all about it. it was in no way subtle or tactful in my opinion but i do enjoy all the main characters nonetheless.

boxman said:

ColdFan74, btw, welcome to the board! I hope you don't have me wrong--I'm a BIG fan of this show. I'm very much more than willing to give the writers a lot of leeway for what they need to maintain that "Suspension of Disbelief" it takes to watch a fictional show. With that in mind, the writers also have to be realistic to the fact that their audience are largely older adults who aren't going to sit and watch this show like kids watching Saturday morning cartoons. As an adult, it's not realistic to watch television and allow the writers to spoon-feed us anything they want. Adults come to this show with knowledge, life experiences, and the capability to do some basic analysis of the circumstances surrounding the episode's story. The episode provided enough information to create a timeline of events and figure out the basic circumstances of how Marlene and the girls came to their dilemma: Marlene was single and homeless because her husband died of cancer, the family was once wealthy enough to be homeowners, and they lost their home through foreclosure. Marlene wasn't separated or divorced; again, she was widowed. She has full social contact with her late husband's friends, family, co-workers, drinking buddies, sports buddies, and so forth to help her pull through this difficult time. Unlike separated or divorced women, she also has full entitlement to her late husband's entire financial wealth; and however large or small it was, it certainly should have been enough to get a cheap apartment somewhere. You live in a big city; you know one doesn't need a car--it can easily be sold for cash to get an apartment and live cheap. It doesn't take much thinking to figure all this out. Since you say you "grew up with people like this during the 80's", with all due respect, why don't you tell me some personal stories of widowed, homeless women?? I'm not trying to be spiteful, venomous, or anything negative when I say this. Like I said before, I'm a huge fan of the show. I just don't really like being in this situation where I feel an episode is so totally unrealistic that it can't entertain me.... Especially when I know several people who were able to avoid homelessness and poverty when faced with their own unexpected, difficult, and trying situations...

[mikencelia]

I absolutely HATED this episode. I agree with Boxman on his accounting. There are SO SO SO MANY social service nets, not to mention great government/social security benefits, for children who lose a parent. TO get where these three were, is virtually impossible. The public schools offer 3 full meals a day to kids, plus before school and afterschool care. I could go on but suffice it to say that the writers did not do their research.

And I also hated the whole Jeffries piece. All of a suddent we're getting this aspect of his psyche when there was not all that much mention made of his emotional distress before. And it was a cliched scene, the cop goes and finds his wife's killer (accidental or noT) pulls his gun on him to make him feel the pain he's feeling. Jeffries was always way above that.

I really hope that they get on the ball with this show this season, because I don't give it more than another season with the road they're on.

[Naj]

And I also hated the whole Jeffries piece. All of a suddent we're getting this aspect of his psyche when there was not all that much mention made of his emotional distress before. And it was a cliched scene, the cop goes and finds his wife's killer (accidental or noT) pulls his gun on him to make him feel the pain he's feeling. Jeffries was always way above that.

Hi mikencelia,

I totally agree here. It doesn't work for Will. Not at all. Nor did the scene of him with the gun with the guy.

If they just stick to strong cases there's not much they have to do with each detective's life. Even though this might not have been 'real' enough I still liked the story and the characters. I didn't much care for the closing montage though.



Hello coldfan74 So glad you have jumped right in.

[riche]

I liked the episode, but I will go along with boxman's suggestion it was a bit of a stretch. Ignoring that aspect it worked well.

Jeffries story was over all a bit quickly, assuming it is, and tidied up a little conveniently.

[coldfan74]

thanks naj for the welcome. so far this the best board for discussion. :-)

as i said before..i dont think this was the best episode ever but i just dont think it was any worse than most of the other episodes but rather just slightly better than most especially for this season. "rampage" was definitely a good one to me. i didnt see what the big hype for "forever blue" was other than the controversial gay affair. it was not enough to justify being a strong episode just because of it.

realism is also relative. cases usually dont get solved right away either but that would be missing the point :-) and most people in real life do not have dialogues in the manner in what we see on TV.

[LillyKat]

coldfan74 said:

realism is also relative.

Very true, coldfan74. Or, as my mom always said, "Perception is reality - and there are a whole bunch of perceptions out there!" LOL!

[michelle]

lillykat said:

Or, as my mom always said, "Perception is reality - and there are a whole bunch of perceptions out there!" LOL!

I like that! I perceive myself as sane and always right. Therefore, I am! ;D ;D ;D

[myril]

Guess I'm suffering some kind of an emotional and sentimental overdose at the moment, each time I watch an CC episode. If I could single out the ep, might even say it was a good one, despite that it was pretty predictable, there was some good cinematography and acting.

Don't think the story was a stretch though. If you talk to homeless people, you can hear quite surprising stories, with enough moments, where you might only wonder, why they didn't ask for help or didn't get help, how they actually ended up on the streets. We do have some kind of social net, don't we, as weak as it might be, we live in rich countries, with social care etc. And then there are family, friends. But for one, people are pride and often it takes a lot to admit, you're not able to do it on your own anymore - especially in a society that preaches every day in media and in common talk, you are responsible for success or failure, telling you, if you just want and try hard enough, nearly everything is possible. It's a basic of modern society to believe, that we create our fates on our own. Interestingly enough, nevertheless a lot of people seek for other powers being responsible, feeling overwhelmed by what life demands of them. And there are many people without family or friends to backup. Second, lots of people don't know, where to turn to for help, it might be there, but they don't know about it, have no idea where to get it or how. And they don't ask (pride again), hoping it's something changing soon, pretending nothing's wrong, keeping up some masquerade, because they fear to be seen as losers, as failing. Might be hard to understand, but it is happening.

What made it a bit hard for me to enjoy the episode is the season at all. Another tearjerker, oh well. As much as I like to be touched by a tv show, it can get too much after a while. Well, yeah, think that's quite an expectation for a tv show, to entertain me for seasons on different levels, emotional and intellectual. Want it to speak to my soul and my mind - and the latter I do miss with CC lately. The stories do touch me, but they seldom make me think at the moment. Mostly easy to feel sympathy for the victims and even for the murderer, too easy perhaps.

Additional, the character development of the main cast seldom seems to connect to the stories of the episodes. I miss a personal view on the cases. So one of the best eps of this season for me is the one where Kat got involved, resumed investigations. I know, wouldn't be realistic to do it every episode, I wouldn't even like that, but think, there could be more of it. I miss the passion, it's like the team is doing an everyday job now, another week, another solved cold case, yeah great. Might be touched by the cases, but am not touched by the regular characters anymore. And that, identification and interest in the main cast is what makes you mostly wish to see more of a show, or not? I want to see their view on the cases, not some general view. Maybe it's there and I just overlook it, I'm not totally sure, but I do miss it.

[eurache]

It's a basic of modern society to believe, that we create our fates on our own. Interestingly enough, nevertheless a lot of people seek for other powers being responsible, feeling overwhelmed by what life demands of them. And there are many people without family or friends to backup. Second, lots of people don't know, where to turn to for help, it might be there, but they don't know about it, have no idea where to get it or how. And they don't ask (pride again), hoping it's something changing soon, pretending nothing's wrong, keeping up some masquerade, because they fear to be seen as losers, as failing. Might be hard to understand, but it is happening.

myril, you took the words out of my mouth. It's pride and what society expects of us. I was very touched by this story, I know how it feels and how society looks upon you when you don't fit the norm. My mother had to go thru a situation like this to support her kids. My father took off (long story) and my mom had to go to Social Service to apply for food stamps. I had at one point wear "hand me downs" from my sister's clothes. My sister and brother since they were 16yrs old, my mom told them if they want something nice to wear, they have to go to work and half their pay would go to her to help pay rent and food. So they had to go to school and work at nights. Then when I was 16 yrs old, I had to go to work. My father, well, he would come back at times, work for a bit to support us, but then he would take off. He had a drinking and gambling problem. I won't go into particulars, but I know mom had to struggle to make ends meet and she had to work too. So, you just don't know the circumstances of someone or what the situation with her family or my father's. They didn't offer help and so we struggled and did the best we could. We didn't live in a car, but it wasn't easy back then. I still believe our "so call" services are not that great. Social workers are either not really qualified or they are overworked with all these problems. So for someone to say "well why didn't they go to these social services and ask for help?" They have to understand that there is a lot bureaucratic bullcrap to go through this and it's humiliating for some ppl to go thru this. I know my mom was pretty upset b/c she had to do this. Her pride was destroyed and she felt helpless with going through this "wonderful" supposedly system we have. I don't think it has changed much in 30yrs. You really have to live it, to really understand what Marlene went through. Some homeless shelters are being closed down now and some churches that offer shelters are being closed now. I've seen Homeless ppl sleeping outside the Port Authority on ninth avenue and 40th and 41st Street. It's not a pretty site, but these ppl have no place to really go b/c what valuable items they could take with them; they fear would be stolen at these shelters. It's hell out there for them.

Also, I helped out in a "Soup" Kitchen one time; it broke my heart when I saw a family (mom, dad, and two kids) coming to the soup kitchen for food and this was in the 90s. I was mad at some of the ppl who were drug dealers had also came to this Kitchen and were wearing nicer clothes. They had some nerve coming too

Anyhew, I didn't think this story was stretched, altho, it couldn't dwell further about Marlene's situation; it sure gave a brief idea of an situation like hers. It made me cry and brought back some memories of my childhood.

I said this show was one of the best.

[Naj]

The story, for me, was original and touching. Erica Shelton created a family that I really cared about, and tied it to a very timely issue (as the U.S. mortgage industry currently continues its meltdown) of losing one’s home and being left to try and make the best of situation in which you never thought you’d find yourself. I

Hi LillyKat,

This is how I felt about it too. And having the car towed was a kicker. Those of us that have never been pressed in life can't identiy with having to give sex to a man to pay the car tow fee. We say we'd never stoop but if never faced with the situation and no other way out - what else could you do.


Hi coldfan74. I'm enjoying your perspective on this episode. I have to care about the case characters - that's usually my measure for an exceptional episode. Forever Blue got me because I have not followed any spoilers this season. So I had no idea the two cops had feelings/a relationship going. Then there was Baby Blues with it's classic series stamp on it as to how I remember earlier episodes. This season is an improvement from the last. How long have you been watching?

as i said before..i dont think this was the best episode ever but i just dont think it was any worse than most of the other episodes but rather just slightly better than most especially for this season. "rampage" was definitely a good one to me. i didnt see what the big hype for "forever blue" was other than the controversial gay affair. it was not enough to justify being a strong episode just because of it.

Hi myril

I think this season is doing much better than season 3. I enjoyed many of the interrogations. I felt, for once, Scotty and Vera's looked real. And we have the classic Lilly telling the suspect to sit down. Loved it.

[TVFan]

I gave this one an "excellent." First, a big "DITTO" to LillyKat's first post on this ep. You outlined all of the reasons that I enjoyed this episode.

Marlene said that she didn't have any family to turn to, and as unbelievable as it may sound, it's plausible. Through work, I know a lady who has been very sick. She has been in and out of hospitals and physical rehab centers since Christmas. She hasn't seen her house since then as well. She's a client, but other than us, she has no one, except her little dog (an older Bichon Frise). This dog is her entire world, so she has been boarding him since Christmas. She doesn't have any family, friends, coworkers, etc., so non one who could take the dog in for her while she recovers from a series of illnesses and she doesn't want to give the dog up, so he stays at a boarding facility. Obviously, this situation is nowhere near as serious as the one in this episode, but the point is, it's plausible for someone to not have anyone to turn to in their time of need.

Anyway, this story really struck a cord with me. Maybe it was the mom and 2 daughters (I am one of three girls) or the excellent soundtrack (that perfectly matched and told the story) -- something (or everything) about this one made it stand out for me. I loved the way Marlene served as a contrast to Lilly's mother. She was able to make the best of what little they had and put her children first, while Lil's mom tried to drink away her problems and neglect her two daughters. Two bad situations, but given the choice, I'm pretty sure Lil would have chosen the former, and that detail seemed to be written all over her face. When she interviewed Natalie for the last time, she almost seemed angry that this girl would overlook the fact that her mother put her first above all else.

The Jeffries stuff worked OK for me. It was a little rushed, but that's how this stuff goes on these types of shows. Really, anything more would have just dragged out the story. After confronting the man who killed his wife, there wasn't anywhere else to go. Thom Barry was amazing, and I thoroughly enjoyed his nuanced performance when Stillman dropped by his apartment. Amazing, amazing work!! This show is so blessed with amazing actors.

Overall, an excellent outing. More thoughts and caps over at Pass the Remote

[koufax]

NAJ-
I totally agree with you. The characters have to be either sympathetic or despicable for me to really like the episode. I also was glad to see Lilly of season two.

[Naj]

I also felt this ep would have been more suitable to a sidestory with Lilly and her mom. It seems we got Lilly early on and then it's like she's forgotten.

koufax said:

NAJ-
I totally agree with you. The characters have to be either sympathetic or despicable for me to really like the episode. I also was glad to see Lilly of season two.

[coldfan74]

naj..thanks..im just trying to respect other people's way of enjoying the show. everyone likes the show for the same and sometime different reasons together. i like providing feedback of what it did for me and what expectations i have on television drama such as this.
the storylines and consequences of how people know each other and what fate and ambitions drives people to kill in weird circumstances and reason hook me.
i do enjoy the theme, music choices, special effect while at the same time the non-acting by actors.
what that means is not having to say a word and their facial expressions just says it all. i was fortunate enough to watch enough episodes to understand lily's background and appreciate her reactions to scenic situations. lily looked really disgusted with natalie in how she handled her situation and how felt about her mother. it was good detail and CLEARLY the fans here notice them and appreciate them as well. tho for some reason i always see her as najara on xena..VERY different characters heh
i started watching the prime time since season 3 but had to catch up on some older eps on cable. i agree that season 1 and 2 had some great solid episodes..i couldnt watch all of them unfortunately.

still some favorites of mine:

season 1
-----
look again
love conquers al
glued
gleen
volunteers
lover's lane

season 2
-------
daniela
the sleepover
who's your daddy
best friends
mind hunters
the woods
strange fruit

season 3
-----------
family
bad night
superstar
honor
death penalty
the hen house

too bad we may never see them on DVD :-(

[coldfan74]

elise keaton..america's sweetheart mom of the 80's turns into a lunatic abusive mom
ooooh the irony lmao

[Tati]

What a scene between Jeffries and Stillman. For me it was the best part of the episode, even though I didn't like Jeffries storyline as a whole.

[Disasterfreak]

omg!!!! I just KNEW I'd missed an episode somewhere. Bloody h*ll. No wonder I was catching up so quickly "$#%"%"#.

[michelle]

disasterfreak said:

omg!!!! I just KNEW I'd missed an episode somewhere. Bloody h*ll. No wonder I was catching up so quickly "$#%"%"#.

*Ahem* Yes, well, Duster, dear. I believe your caption foreshadowed the possibility of you having rerun trouble. ;D

Love ya!!!!! ;D

[Disasterfreak]

michelle said:

disasterfreak said:

omg!!!! I just KNEW I'd missed an episode somewhere. Bloody h*ll. No wonder I was catching up so quickly "$#%"%"#.

*Ahem* Yes, well, Duster, dear. I believe your caption foreshadowed the possibility of you having rerun trouble. ;D

Love ya!!!!! ;D

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