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Post by Electrophile on Nov 10, 2009 19:35:03 GMT -5
Okay, I watched it a couple more times and decided to vote it as "excellent". I liked the story, but the ending is what bumped it up from good to the next level.
Parents can be funny people sometimes. As kids, we drive them crazy. Whether it's bad grades, running around with the wrong crowd, getting into trouble....we're always giving them reasons to clean up after us sometimes. Even after everything he put his father through, be it gambling or drinking or whatever.....Sonny still made sure that Jose was going to be provided for after he was gone. $3 million dollars is not chump change. Even more, Sonny paid off his son's gambling debts....even though he didn't have to and probably shouldn't have.
Watching his face contort when he realized that while Angelo was like the son he didn't have, his father still put him at #1, was very emotional and some great acting. I enjoyed it. Also, the music was fantastic. I hadn't heard of several of the Santana songs used in this episode, especially the ending number, but I'm definitely going to have to find it.
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Post by eduardo on Nov 10, 2009 20:41:28 GMT -5
I guess I'm in the minority, but I wasn't entirely sucked in by WASP; so for that reason, Dead Heat seemed to be better. We all have different tastes: I loved WASP. I cried, smiled, got excited, screamed with WASP... Long time it did not happen to me with CC Okay, I watched it a couple more times and decided to vote it as "excellent". I liked the story, but the ending is what bumped it up from good to the next level. Parents can be funny people sometimes. As kids, we drive them crazy. Whether it's bad grades, running around with the wrong crowd, getting into trouble....we're always giving them reasons to clean up after us sometimes. Even after everything he put his father through, be it gambling or drinking or whatever.....Sonny still made sure that Jose was going to be provided for after he was gone. $3 million dollars is not chump change. Even more, Sonny paid off his son's gambling debts....even though he didn't have to and probably shouldn't have. Watching his face contort when he realized that while Angelo was like the son he didn't have, his father still put him at #1, was very emotional and some great acting. I enjoyed it. Also, the music was fantastic. I hadn't heard of several of the Santana songs used in this episode, especially the ending number, but I'm definitely going to have to find it. I also loved the ending! It saved it from a complete bad episode but didn't like the music |
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Post by Electrophile on Nov 10, 2009 22:10:08 GMT -5
Why didn't you like the music? Are you not a fan of Santana?
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Nov 10, 2009 23:24:17 GMT -5
Okay, I watched it a couple more times and decided to vote it as "excellent". I liked the story, but the ending is what bumped it up from good to the next level. Parents can be funny people sometimes. As kids, we drive them crazy. Whether it's bad grades, running around with the wrong crowd, getting into trouble....we're always giving them reasons to clean up after us sometimes. Even after everything he put his father through, be it gambling or drinking or whatever.....Sonny still made sure that Jose was going to be provided for after he was gone. $3 million dollars is not chump change. Even more, Sonny paid off his son's gambling debts....even though he didn't have to and probably shouldn't have. Watching his face contort when he realized that while Angelo was like the son he didn't have, his father still put him at #1, was very emotional and some great acting. I enjoyed it. Also, the music was fantastic. I hadn't heard of several of the Santana songs used in this episode, especially the ending number, but I'm definitely going to have to find it. Well said, Electrophile!  I'm surprised you haven't heard "Sampa Pa Ti" before. It's one of Santana's early 70s classics, and I grew up hearing it all the time on FM radio. You do know of Santana's "Europa", though, right? I thought that after all that plot with the horses, and Sonny's illness that it was a bit of a let down and a cop out to use the son's gambling and Sonny's will. It seems like a pretty tired motive to me; money is always obvious. There could have been some great reason tied to saving/not saving the horses, or the health of the jockeys. In the end, the story really wasn't about Jose's gambling, money, or the will. It wasn't even about saving the horses, Sonny's failing health, or even about horse racing in general either. It was about Jose struggling to grow into a responsible young man, who had the difficulty of doing so under the shadows of a famous but womanizing father who wasn't there all time for Jose and his mom. Sonny had asked Jose to help groom the horse he would ride in his final race. Jose saw that not simply as a way to pay off his debt or another gambling opportunity, but also as an occasion to bond with his father. When Sonny intentionally lost the race to allow his protege to win, it made Jose wonder where Sonny's loyaties were placed. The last conversation/argument that Sonny and Jose had really made Jose think Sonny had favored Angelo, allowing Jose to feel justified in hitting his dad. Lilly and Scotty clearly understood this dynamic when they went into Jose's interrogation. So they toyed with Jose a bit, talking about it and building up his curiosity of who the will was made out to. And when Lilly played her card by revealing the will's benefactor, she knew she had Jose cornered for a confession. All these years, Jose could hide his guilt in murdering his dad because he believed the father-and-son bond wasn't there. But when Lilly proved this belief wrong, Jose couldn't justify his actions anymore, his wall collapsed, and he had to admit. Episodes like this where the doer is a family member are always much more powerful and poignant to me. It's much more tragic when the doer is someone related to the victim because the emotions have to be so much more higher and stronger to kill or simply harm a family member. By turning the story into one about a father/son relationship, the episode became more stronger and "epic in proportion". This episode was no longer limited to immigrant families, horse racing, money, or gambling. It turned into a universal tale that many individuals and families can relate to, especially those with a strong but distant parent and problematic child/offspring. TruBlu, I hate to sound like an old fart, and I certainly don't want to seem condescending; but I think in time you'll see this is a very common problem here in the US. Here, there are many young people who have divorced or estranged parents--Both of whom are often busy pursuing their own lives, spending minimal time raising and giving guidance to their kids. Change the details, and this story could become almost anyone else's story about problems between parents and their kids. To me, that's simply great writing when they can extend beyond the particular details in the episode and have it relate to many other people in many other backgrounds and situations. That's how I ended up really enjoying this ep! |
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Post by Electrophile on Nov 11, 2009 1:54:43 GMT -5
Okay, I watched it a couple more times and decided to vote it as "excellent". I liked the story, but the ending is what bumped it up from good to the next level. Parents can be funny people sometimes. As kids, we drive them crazy. Whether it's bad grades, running around with the wrong crowd, getting into trouble....we're always giving them reasons to clean up after us sometimes. Even after everything he put his father through, be it gambling or drinking or whatever.....Sonny still made sure that Jose was going to be provided for after he was gone. $3 million dollars is not chump change. Even more, Sonny paid off his son's gambling debts....even though he didn't have to and probably shouldn't have. Watching his face contort when he realized that while Angelo was like the son he didn't have, his father still put him at #1, was very emotional and some great acting. I enjoyed it. Also, the music was fantastic. I hadn't heard of several of the Santana songs used in this episode, especially the ending number, but I'm definitely going to have to find it. Well said, Electrophile! I'm surprised you haven't heard "Sampa Pa Ti" before. It's one of Santana's early 70s classics, and I grew up hearing it all the time on FM radio. You do know of Santana's "Europa", though, right? No, I have to admit I'm not. I really don't know much about their music aside from Oye Como Va, Black Magic Woman and Evil Ways. Which is sad I know, they're a great band who has done some fantastic work. I was happy to hear more of it in this episode because it allowed me to find some new stuff I hadn't heard before. I'm a 70s music junkie but Santana was just one group that I never got completely into for one reason or another. |
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byrdman9802
Lilly's Bedroom
Kathryn Informant [/center]Lil's Motorcycle Man in waiting [/color]
Posts: 2,361
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Post by byrdman9802 on Nov 11, 2009 15:40:48 GMT -5
Hi boys and girls! Hello, and good Wednesday to you! I hope that you all are well, and that your midweeks are going smoothly, just like mine is! Well, I got to rewatch this episode last night, and I rated it as excellent! I liked Santana's music throughout the episode (was it a solo Santana episode? I can't believe they did not advertise it as such - I can remember the Bob Dylan, John Lennon and Soundgarden eps being advertised), but the episode starting out with "Oye Como Va" was a great start! But the case brought to light for me the problems that are encountered with profiting off of horses - the owner seemed to use every means to squeeze every penny he could out of them. It was a great way to include another storyline that tugs at your heart strings - the writers were on top of their game for this one. And those barns burning down with the owner getting insurance returns off of them was another illustration of what a bad guy he is. Scotty's mom and Will's phone call are hopefully stories that will continue to pan out over the remainder of the season. I hope I was not the only one lost with those little story bits this past week - I'm more confused than anything right now on both of them. Vera was cool in this one too - physical? Ha! Emailing his picture sleeping around work, and then the leadership sends that down. You know he is going to be excited to get this done, right? And he was funny in the questioning of that Australian jockey who is a bar owner. His quick quip after the guy told him that a 1,200 pound horse "shattered me pelvis, mate..." and then he said "I hope the horse was okay." I was cracking up for that line. And looking into Lilly's life a little further was very neat too! Seeing more of what she used to do as a kid was very interesting and she looked great in this episode! Sonny deserved justice, and he got it, thanks to the team's efforts. Oh, does anyone know who the girl was in the flashback of Lilly at the end in the racing stands? I know that her boyfriend's daughter played her in last season's finale, but I'm not sure if that was the same girl. Excellent work, Cold Case! The show rocks! |
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Post by ninja1088 on Nov 11, 2009 17:40:24 GMT -5
I noticed a lot of this stuff also occured in the Frank's Best episode. You had a troubled young man who has a father who has his best wishes at heart but also reaches out to others in trouble. The son believes their dad likes the other person better and finally lashes out at their father...realizing too little too late their dad only had their best intrests at heart.
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SamIam
Senior Detective
Posts: 532
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Post by SamIam on Nov 11, 2009 20:59:29 GMT -5
MY DVR Deleted the second half. could some please tell me what happened in the end and what happened with scotty's mom in this episode?
thanks
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zoé
Desk Clerk III
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Post by zoé on Nov 12, 2009 4:04:41 GMT -5
Hey guys I have a question or more like I need help with the conversation between Lil and Scotty. The one where Lilly tells him that her mother worked at the track. Lill goes something like "After my dad left my mom needed a job" and here is where I can't quite make out what she said next up to Scotty's line "Your mom worked at the track?" Then Lil talks about counting a drawer so I figure Ellen probably worked as one of those people at the window where ppl bet on horses, but if anyone has still that episode recorded and knows what Lil says exactly I would appreciate if they would post it Here is what the subtitles say: After my dad left, uh, my mom needed a job. Didn't notice she was
juiced. She became a ticket taker.No idea what "juiced" means and if it's even correct  I'll be interested in knowing that detail too. MY DVR Deleted the second half. could some please tell me what happened in the end and what happened with scotty's mom in this episode? thanks There are great recaps at thetwocents, check it out! Oh, does anyone know who the girl was in the flashback of Lilly at the end in the racing stands? I know that her boyfriend's daughter played her in last season's finale, but I'm not sure if that was the same girl. It's not the boyfriend's daughter (who played the 6 year old Lilly) but the the other actress who played Lilly age 10 from Into the Blue. There is a neat picture of the 2 lillies at the race track at imdb. |
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madmax
Sergeant
25%
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Post by madmax on Nov 12, 2009 6:08:07 GMT -5
Here is what the subtitles say: After my dad left, uh, my mom needed a job. Didn't notice she was
juiced. She became a ticket taker.No idea what "juiced" means and if it's even correct I'll be interested in knowing that detail too. Thanks for posting the subtitles Juiced is a slang for drunk. It's not the boyfriend's daughter (who played the 6 year old Lilly) but the the other actress who played Lilly age 10 from Into the Blue. There is a neat picture of the 2 lillies at the race track at imdb. I just saw it and I'm speechless...it's SO cute I haven't seen before the two other photos and I like them very much too |
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SamIam
Senior Detective
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Post by SamIam on Nov 12, 2009 15:14:09 GMT -5
i looked at the website you gave me and red the review but it only says what scotty asked. Could someone tell me what scotty's dad said and what the verdict was with Vera?
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Post by eduardo on Nov 12, 2009 18:44:44 GMT -5
Why didn't you like the music? Are you not a fan of Santana? IDK Why  and I'm Latino but I just don't like it |
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redcarrot
Desk Clerk I
what in the hell is a 'sawbuck switch'?!
Posts: 19
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Post by redcarrot on Nov 14, 2009 10:23:37 GMT -5
I voted ok. Well, this story wasn't the big hit. But who likes horses.  Lilly surprises me really often lately, when she speaks so honest about her private stuff espacially with Scotty. She turned a bit different to me, or am I wrong? I also liked the places, you could see in the episode. And again a little Lilly at the end. When I saw this little girl acting Lilly, when she was a kid, I wondered how many different actresses they've already used... I'm really interested in what's going on with Scotty's mother. She's such a cutie. I don't want her sick. |
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Post by Electrophile on Nov 14, 2009 18:00:22 GMT -5
But who likes horses. Well.....I do. I don't "like" them as in I ride them or have ever ridden them, but I don't believe I have any reason not to like them. |
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Post by ninja1088 on Nov 14, 2009 19:19:59 GMT -5
Horses aren't my animals either... but to each his own.
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SamIam
Senior Detective
Posts: 532
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Post by SamIam on Nov 14, 2009 19:39:15 GMT -5
what happened with scotty's mom in this episode?
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redcarrot
Desk Clerk I
what in the hell is a 'sawbuck switch'?!
Posts: 19
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Post by redcarrot on Nov 15, 2009 12:13:43 GMT -5
what happened with scotty's mom in this episode? Nothing yet. But I want to know what's wrong with her. :] |
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Post by Naj on Nov 16, 2009 15:35:16 GMT -5
I'm giving this episode an excellent. Don't know why but it was a good story and like boxman said it was about At first I wasn't sure if I would be into a case about horse racing but as the case unfolded it worked quite well. The added touches of Scotty's mom and her mystery and Vera and Will was enough to just had some additional intrigue and humor.
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Post by pavlovsdog on Nov 29, 2009 9:44:48 GMT -5
Not my favourite episode, but Vera was on fire.
Loved this one.
Jockey - Do you know what it's like to be 110 pounds?
Vera - Not since 5th grade....
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Post by nomnivore on Feb 10, 2010 6:47:40 GMT -5
I think this may be in the running for my least favourite episode, nudging out Lonely Hearts.
Admittedly, it's for personal reasons- the show can't do my accent!
I was cringing during that "Australian" guy's scenes- both actors did a terrible job. It sounded horrible to my Australian ears. I was really hoping he'd be the doer.
The rest of the case was very boring, and it had the old "person suddenly gets angry and kills someone with a nearby object" ending.
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I'm surprised you haven't heard "Sampa Pa Ti" before. It's one of Santana's early 70s classics, and I grew up hearing it all the time on FM radio. You do know of Santana's 
and I'm Latino but I just don't like it
