Episode 3.14: Dog Day Afternoons

[longislanditalian2]

Good point myril, I was thinking about that too about lilly, I think she has been thinking about herself more since the incident with george , I don't think she knows who she is now but she's getting there. This is another life phase for her . Both you and boxman are right about the points that you made. This is good work on the writer part , throwing us for a loop again.

[frenchfan]

As you know it I did not see this episode (In France it will be diffused in 10 months approximately OMG an eternity). But I am very interested by the debate which you have in connection with the relation between Ray and Lilly, about the absence of conversation between them. The silence between Lilly and Ray doesn’t shock me, the situation doesn’t shock me either. I think that if a certain person sounded with my door today, a person which I liked as I ever loved anybody other, of an intense love, with a very special bond, I would make him enter, but I would not like to speak, I would not like to know why he is there, he would be there, it is all. I wouldn’t like to know his life today, I would like simply to live, live again of the particular moments for 24, 48, hours. Perhaps to make love, perhaps not. Simply to smell me again as at the time where I was with him. But I agree with you Boxman, it’s a lure, (I don’t know if it is good traduction, I want to say that perhaps I lie myself to me). And perhaps that it is not well or not normal, but thus I would live it. Undoubtedly because the mourning of this relation is not finished in spite of the years. I have a little the impression that it is what occurs for Lilly. But it is obvious that this relation could not continue thus. And reality would catch up with her quickly. I think that this meeting with Ray will make it possible Lilly to evolve in these relations with the others. Perhaps she finally will be able to make the mourning of this last relation and to really open its heart with another man. To wait and see.
(sorry again for my english)

[longislanditalian2]

Very good point , Frenchfan about what you said about lilly being able to really open up her heart , is very true i think she is learning that love isn't going to hurt her ,but make her a stronger person. That love can come in various forms of trust and that anyone she falls in love, won't always hurt her . I think being with ray has opening up not only her mind but her soul as well. She know that they can't rewind time, too much has happened in her life. Her life has changed since she was 19 , but after that terrible experience with george made her realize a lot about her life and has got her to change emotionlly that life is full of surprises that you have to be open to any possiblities down the road.

[sonny]

Excellent points you made there myril and frenchfan that last statement offers an excellent theory. Maybe this does now open Lilly up to other relationships, who knows.

[longislanditalian2]

I think Lilly will be open more now , after being with ray .. She knows she has changed and cannot always reley on her cats for love , although they will also be a sorce of comfort she needs someone to talk to to , to love and laugh . I think this is all she ever wanted in life , to be loved not hurt. Even though she is a workaholic , she knows that can't always be her whole life ...

[TVFan]

Excellent points myril, frenchfan and boxman. You guys really have me seeing and thinking about this whole storyline differently. I've been so blindied by the obvious shock value of it that I never stopped to consider what myril and frenchfan so eloquently put into words. I've always felt that Lilly has seemed affected since her season-ending encounter with George last May, so I've been able to see this whole relationship as an extention of her character. It made sense in the context of Lilly this season. Delving more into her emotional state like you two did was very informative. Thanks for the great insight!

sonny said:

But as Kathryn says in that Tango magazine interview, women are all about the gray areas!

Awesome sonny!

They simply can't leave it or what would have been the point of doing this in the first place?

I couldn't agree more. They NEED to bring him back.

You seeing things the way I see them is a total honour TVFan!

This is very sweet sonny, and funny because I had been thinking the same thing about you. After all, you are a Lilly Ho and we are co-Kathryn hos, so it only seems right that we share the same views on this. :smile42:

[longislanditalian2]

I also share the same views as all of you , we do need to bring him back just to see why he means alot to lilly ... She had on such a smile when he arrived , even kite couldn't get her to smile like that.. Maybe that's why she referrres to ray as her number 1 smile. But the question i'm still wondering is why lilly was acting so weird when scotty mentioned ray . ..

[sonny]

tvfan said:

This is very sweet sonny, and funny because I had been thinking the same thing about you. After all, you are a Lilly Ho and we are co-Kathryn hos, so it only seems right that we share the same views on this.

;D :smile41: I'm a Kathryn/Lilly Ho through and through. Nothing they do is ever wrong! :smile4:

[longislanditalian2]

what's a lily ho

[Disasterfreak]

Well... I guess I should add my ugly 2 cents (again), now that all this discussion has taken place.

I probably don't have much depth of feeling, because Lilly's reaction is still rather incomprehensible to me. You all have come up with theories which have brought it closer to my understanding--but I still feel it was VERY off-character. To have this woman who for 20 years lived alone and self-sufficient with her cats suddenly wanna get cozy with a guy she knew as a KID, just because she had a run in with a serial killer... well, it doesn't really do it for me. It doesn't fit. It should have been more gradual. If anything, I think having a near death experience like the George thing would've made her more withdrawn. All this "I'll put my hair down and go screw my high school sweetheart" really doesn't make any sense at all. It's like going back in time or something.

The only way I can make sense out of this whole mess is by taking TVFan's view and assuming SHE contacted HIM at one point. Which I'd hate to think of her doing, because it's so very drippy and needy. But it's the only I way I can accept her just getting on that bike and riding off into the sunset.

[longislanditalian2]

you have point there DF, maybe it's not about what happened with george maybe b/c she is good through a phase in her life .On one hand she can't be alone all the time , but on the same token knows it's not possible to rekindle a love that she once had when she was 19. They both have gotten older and mature. Maybe they were both thinking about each other at the same time and thought about good it would be to see each other again . Maybe this relationship wiil spark not love relationship but a long lasting friendship . I don't think lilly would go out with him again but you never know what she really is thinking after we left off with him coming into her house. Maybe he is her true love or is there to help her who know. What i don'yt want to happen is ray saying something to effect that would hurt lilly , he seems pretty in love with her

[Disasterfreak]

Hmm.... Ray seemed sweet enough, but hardly like a guy capable of very deep feelings. As for Lilly, not sure I would refer to her behavior as "older and mature". Neither then (at 19) nor now. She's just getting on his bike and ridin' off to get hitched again after a 2-week relationship... and neither one of them's getting off the bike.

[longislanditalian2]

Maybe she got on the bike for an old time's sake, she needed a little fun in her life. No her behavior isn't mature but how many of us adults are mature, sure we have our fun sides . Lilly works too hard this might have made her feel young again. But being with ray , that's someone only lilly can tell us , there are a lot of reasons why .

[ecooper516]

My husband and I DO NOT want Lilly and Scotty to get together. We feel the show will turn into a soap opera and it will be out of character. Scotty is a play boy which will affect the working relationship and Lilly would never get together with a co-worker.

[sonny]

disasterfreak said:

Well... I guess I should add my ugly 2 cents (again), now that all this discussion has taken place.

The only way I can make sense out of this whole mess is by taking TVFan's view and assuming SHE contacted HIM at one point. Which I'd hate to think of her doing, because it's so very drippy and needy. But it's the only I way I can accept her just getting on that bike and riding off into the sunset.

I totally respect your 2 cents worth DF, even if we don't think the same on this.

I agree with TVFan's point also. It would be to coincidental that he just showed up weeks after her gazing at the photos of them both. I too think she contacted him. What happened between that contact and when she rode off on his bike is anyones guess? I hoping we at least find that out, maybe then it nmight make more sense to some who think it was way off character? :smile10:

[eurache]

Now hold on DF, I didn't have a near death experience, but when I was at Lilly's age (as portrayed), I had a "what if" syndrome. I had a puppy love with this one guy on my block, who was a couple years older than me. We dated on and off, but he was more interested in someone else. Then he was drafted to the Vietnam war. All of a sudden, he was writing to me. Apparently, broke off with this other girl and I was a Senior in HS.. so I was excited that he was really interested in me. He came home on leave and we went out and fell in love. When his tour was over, he came home, got a job...then one day proposed to me. I accepted at that time. We were saving for a home. I think he was home for about year, then things happened and I decided to call off the engagement b/c I wasn't ready yet to married. So life goes on, but I did think about him and the "what if". In fact, we met again after awhile, but getting back was hurtful, but he was still hurt that we broke up and wanted to hurt back. Believe me, it was not my intention to hurt him; I was being honest and just wasn't ready for marriage and still wasn't.

Well, of course, I married someone else however, you do think back to those "what ifs". Okay, my first ex fiance was not MC...but you do wonder at times. I dont' anymore, but you do. And I heard he did too b/c he ran into one of my g/fs and asked about me. Btw my ex - had married and has threee kids So I'm happy for him...

My point is the fact that Lilly and MC met again after so many years, her thoughts were probably those "what ifs" and has he changed?... etc..etc.. If you get my drift.

[TVFan]

Excellent points Eurache. I think Lilly began down that road to "What ifs" after working the case in "8 Years." At the end of that episode, as we've all noted before, she seemed very reflective while she was looking at those pictures of her with Ray. We even got a smile out of her, and it was the kind that indicated she was thinking of him and their memories together fondly. Maybe she just thought to herself, "What the hell, why not? What do I have to lose?" So, she contacted him, found out he (presumably) comes to Philly from time to time and decided to meet up with him for old times sake. They meet up, and one thing leads to another and she figures "Why not? I've been through a lot this last year or so and I deserve a little fun and a diversion from reality." And thus begins the part where we all came into it in "Dog Day Afternoons." It's the only way it makes any sense to me too Disasterfreak. I guess it's why I choose to see it that way.

I really hope the show brings him back and fills in these blanks. Unless, it was all supposed to be nothing more than a simple hook-up plan. In that case, I feel there's a little explaining that needs to be done because I'm not buying that as an extension of Lil's character.

[frenchfan]

As I have it already write, I think that it’s a need significant to revive something the soft one, the happy one who pushed lilly to see Ray again. But I believe as and especially as it's the loneliness which pushes her towards this man. It is that which disturbs some among us, a kind of weakness of its share. For me, her personality it is also that. It is somebody who built a wall around it, and one can understand why, but this wall fissures, her confrontation with George, and the return of her sister are not foreign with all that. I think that the reaction of Lilly is perfectly normal, and in adequacy with what she is with deepest of her even. She is deeply human and I like his brittleness always selected, seldom openly revealed. I think that she needs to find a balance emotional, and her meeting with Ray can help it to open his heart, and even if I think that this relation doesn't have future.
(It is possible that my English doesn't retranscribe exactly what I want to say but I hope that yes)

[longislanditalian2]

You hit it on the spot, FrenchFan ..

[Disasterfreak]

That was very nicely put and poetic, Frenchfan--and I agree with it to an extent. TVFan and Eurache--your points also make sense, but I think I would have understood them more if Lilly were 26, not 36 (assuming that's her age). It's just that a lot of water's gone under the bridge since then, much more than 8 yrs, and at 36 you're not exactly a teenager anymore so IMO behaving like one doesn't fit our Lilly... then again I'm not exactly the paragon so I shouldn't say anything. ;D

I still really dislike this storyline... but at least it's beginning to make more sense. I hope they don't draw it out too long though... I don't wanna be running into this guy till the finale.