Ep. 5.11 Family 8108

[pealee]

I didn't know about interment camps here in the US for Japanese citizens. How horriblely sad.

The whole ep was. And the end instead of music it was the reading of the letter. Heartbreaking. CCGirl had to keep calling me to make sure I was awake as I wasn't feeling well. And I'm so glad she did because I really enjoyed this ep. And Lilly "leaving" the files there for the Boss was a good way to get him back into the swing of things. I'm glad he's back.

[TVFan]

I gave this one an excellent. I thought it was very well done. The older cases always tie in the historical context perfectly. They really showcase what makes CC stand out. I DID know about the internment camps and am very surprised that so many people didn't learn about them in school. BUT, it's one thing to read about it in a history textbook and another to watch a character that you feel invested in go through it. I always thought it was awful, but watching it unfold with Ray and his family made me angry.

I LOVE that Lilly was the one to nudge Stillman back to work. Her little file trick was great! Like LillyKat, I thought their scenes were AWESOME! Kathryn and John have beautiful student/mentor and daughter/father chemistry. I just love when the writers put them together for poignant scenes such as these. One of my faves between them is still that scene in season one's "Glued" when Lil talks to Stillman in his office late at night and she learns that he's about to be a grandfather. It's nice to see that camaraderie return.

Overall, an excellent episode. CC just keeps impressing me this season!

[coldcasegirl]

My favorite part of this ep was when Lilly went to find Stillman @ the bar and then left her folder! I am TOTALLY in sync with CC cause right when this happened I told pealee that scene was a SLAP IN THE FACE b/c it made me realize what it would be like without Boss. And then (THIS>>is why I said in sync), Lilly was interviewing one of the women and said "Must have been A SLAP IN THE FACE" !!!!! <<<< my eyes totally popped out just like that when she said it. I mean it may not have been for the same scene, but how awesome is that!!?!!? I had a smile on my face the rest of the night ;D

I also DID enjoy the case. One of those that is SO sad, and seem so impossible to solve, but then the team kicks butt and solves it like it IS their job! (sarcastic-ness right there.. )
But I REALLY liked it!! ;D

[pealee]

Lol. And when CCGirl was texting me about the slap in the face. I was like huh? I had to have her explain it. But to defend myself I was sick and half asleep!

[boxman]

riche said:

CBL, I think you meant reservations Reservoirs are primarily artificial lakes, such as those created by damning a river.

I think it's generally agreed that only God can damn a river. ;D

naj said:

Even in ninth grade our Civics class which was devoted entirely to Pennsylvania history had no mention of Japanese interment camps or any such mention of large population Asians in Philadelphia.

Well, as Philly has historically been an important shipping port, Chinese immigrants have been here for a long time. In fact, Philly's Chinatown goes back to the 1870's. But other than than, to my knowledge the Koreans, Vietnamese and other southwest Asians arrived here mostly in the later-70's and 80's, so there probably wasn't a large Asian population when you were in that class. UPenn and the other universities here also attract a lot of Asian students too, but I think that's only in recent decades.

The number "8" still continues to appear in the show and it's storyline... What does that number infer to??

Life Path 8

Interesting....

coldfan74 said:

always count on boxman to find the details we all miss and point them. good job
in honesty im surprised you're not a filmmaker or screenwriter if youre not. you seem to have the passion and capacity to appreciate the miniscule details of how every plot can tell a story as well as the scenes themselves.

I've simply just been taught in high school how to analyze and enjoy watching films in this manner. Cold Case is unusual from most other series in that it takes a movie approach in it's filming and production, so the material is being put there by the writers, art directors, and so forth, just waiting to be discovered...

lillykat said:

I actually felt as if the Lilly/Stillman moments were some of the best of series.

I totally agree!

I also consider myself grateful to actually know of Manzanar – both from historical context, but also seen it numerous times when my family and I used to make the trek up US Route 395 for some of our winter vacations at the Mammoth Mountain Ski Area. Manzanar is located in the Owens Valley (on the Eastern Side of the Sierra Nevadas), and whilst the Owens Valley is beautiful, for me, it gives a powerful sense of remoteness and isolation – especially framed against the towering mountain ranges that make up that side of the Sierra Nevadas. I remember wondering how could it be that people really were forced to live out there - in shacks, freezing, cold, desolate, isolated, alone for no real good reason.

For years, the site was indeed barely noticeable. If I remember correctly, it was basically one small crumbling guard shack, and a dirt road that served as entrance to the camp. Though the site was deemed a National Historic Landmark in the 1970s, it really wasn’t until April 2004, when they opened the Manzanar National Historic Site and Interpretive Center, that the site and the history were given its proper tribute and due. There is now a museum, and they have reconstructed certain parts of the camp to give visitors a much more realistic sense of what the camp life was unfortunately like. My co-worker, who had family interned at the camp, has visited. She was quite moved (her mother refuses to go and/or even speak of it; the wounds are still very deep - even 50 years later).

LillyKat, did it appear to you that they actually filmed the episode at that location?? Here on the east coast, we don't have that kind of towering mountains, and it was one of the first thing I noticed in those camp scenes.

coldboneslove459 said:

I learned about this in 7th grade...a while ago. My teacher also showed me a movie on the conditions of these internment camps and the lives of the people living there(it was based on a true story) and at the end I was crying....alot, not like the way I was crying at the end of this episode....but that movie was really sad and a lot of hatred burned up inside me.

Also at the end of the movie, a lot of people were staring at me. Felt kinda weird too, but my friends in that class came up and gave me a hug.

Aww.... C'mon everybody!! Give CBL a hug!!!

And here's something extra to make you feel better:













;D

[LillyKat]

boxman said:

LillyKat, did it appear to you that they actually filmed the episode at that location?? Here on the east coast, we don't have that kind of towering mountains, and it was one of the first thing I noticed in those camp scenes.

Not likely given the actual historical site is fairly sparce (even with the museum, etc.). There aren't rows and rows of old barracks, fences, etc. for use, so it's likely they filmed the camp portion in another location - probably one closer to Los Angeles (given Manzanar is about 5-6 hour drive on a no traffic day - LOL!). There are areas just outside of LA, like Santa Clarita and Bakersfield, that have similar desolate-looking landscapes and of which could easily "stand in" for the actual Manzanar location.

However, the backdrop shots of the towering mountain range were very accurate. US Route 395 (on which Manzanar is located) essentially parallels the Eastern Sierras. You drive right alongside the range for hundreds of miles - one of the main reasons the byway is so beautiful. To depict the camp being built against the base of the range, I'm guessing they created a CGI/composite shot in post-production that featured images of the Sierras (or at least something resembling the range) and dropped it into the background of what appeared to be the camp (which was filmed elsewhere). Given the black/white tone, you couldn't really tell it was a composite shot, which made it really feel like it WAS shot at the camp site. Another option might have been to actually have the second unit crew go out and film a portion of the mountain range, then take it back and, via the magic of post-production once again, drop the footage into the background of the "camp."

Whichever version they used, I thought it was well done all the way around. I'm glad you noticed it as well.

[riche]

boxman said:

I think it's generally agreed that only God can damn a river. ;D

;D

I think that building a bloody great big concrete wall across a river pretty much damns it.

I think as the human race we are quite capable of both damming and damning any darned river we want

[scillylove]

I'm sorry to butt in here, but am I to understand that some places in the United States DO NOT teach the students about the internment camps on their own soil during WW2? That's...horrible is the nicest word I can think of for it. Whether we like it or not it is part of our history (and when I say 'our' I mean the world. I'm not American) and we need to learn about it. Otherwise how will we learn from it?

But that's something I should be taking up with the school board, not you guys. So anyhoo, the episode itself was a bit of a disappointment for me. I was hoping to really get into it, since I've always had a fascination with history. But I don't know, for some reason I couldn't get into it. Maybe it was the black and white, maybe it was just the story itself. What I did enjoy though, was seeing Jerry Douglas. I remember him from his days on The Young and the Restless (something I will admit I used to watch), it was nice to see him in another role.

The Lilly thing. Was it me or did they just drop her nightmare storyline? Are they going to be addressing it again, because it's not finished yet.

[coldcasegirl]

boxman said:

I think it's generally agreed that only God can damn a river. ;D

HAHA, I love it! ;D I never would have caught that

[pealee]

Oh scillylove I hope they don't drop the nightmare storyline. I'll be totally bummed out!

[myril]

Another episode I've seen without noting my first impressions. Well, might have time to rewatch it, right...

But as far as I remember thought it was at least a good episode. Ah, yeah, I liked the conclusion alot, the way they described how a war changed people and has effects on the people at home, more or less living far away from the battlegrounds. Couldn't really help it, but had to think as well a bit about present situation, how much we distrust people, unsure who is on what side ... And eventually destroying ourselves the very thing we want to defend.

Reading the postings here, I was surprised and not surprised, what is known about history. Well, people here where I live feel more like they had been stuffed with an overdose of the very bad moments of the country's history, but I personally think, nevertheless people are still way too ignorant and naiv about too many things even here. Drives me crazy at times. But that might be mainly, because it's not enough to tell the facts, it's about getting beyond that, to understand the essence of events. Otherwise some people are right to say, that all we learn form history is that we learned nothing from it.

But even worse, if facts aren't teached. Though of course, you can ask, what are facts. Some doubt them.

Okay, I better should rewatch the ep and then write about the ep and not some philosophical essay about how we deal with history. ;D

[CC Fan]

just watched this episode and thought it was one of the best of the season... i thought it was a great portrayal of the united states at that time, and I really felt for all the characters involved.

I especially thought the actors (guest stars included) were great!

I recenetly visited where the manzanar camps once were and it was a very chilling site... this episode reminded me of all that I had seen and how awful the conditions were.

I was actually surprised that the detectives didn't know about Manzanar...I remember it being tought to be in high school.. although I'm much younger than Lilly and Scotty and times have changed...

[jt]

could anyone fill me in on the ending. I missed it

[riche]

jt said:

could anyone fill me in on the ending. I missed it

I'll give it a go jt.

Major Spoiler Alert - you have been warned. But if you don't want to risk hearing the ending you shouldn't be reading this thread

I don't how much you missed so I'll briefly cover the most significant elements in the last 10 minutes or so.

---

Shinji (the guy that tore up the flag during a fight with Ray about half way through the episode) brought a letter from Billy to Ray. The letter convinced Ray to go to the stadium to collect his son's medal. The stadium is where they held the army/navy game.

Lilly went to talk to Stillman to convince him to return to work. He told Lilly that to get the medal Ray would need to get a recommendation from Billy's commanding officer. Skip (Billy's friend from the very begin of the show) became Billy's CO during the war. Skip, traumatised by all that he'd seen and done, had become scared and deeply distrustful of people of far east appearance. During an argument he pushed Ray down the steps outside the stadium, killing him.

Stillman returns to work.

We get to hear Billy reading out his letter over the end montage, and heart rending and inspiring stuff it is about fighting for: a better America made up of peoples from all ethnic backgrounds.

[jt]

thanks for filling me in

[pavlovsdog]

One thing that bugs me about episodes that involve older cases is the supposed ages of the current day characters.

Given that Shinji(?) had a teenage boy back in 1942, one would suspect his rough age then to be mid 40's, thus a rough date of birth would be 1900.

Which would make him a staggering 107 in the current day. Likewise for the Japanese mother. Even the younger characters such as Skip, the teacher and the Scholz guy would be well into their 80's, is it that realistic that ALL of those people would still be alive and kicking?

[yankee1151]

One thing that bugs me about episodes that involve older cases is the supposed ages of the current day characters.

Given that Shinji(?) had a teenage boy back in 1942, one would suspect his rough age then to be mid 40's, thus a rough date of birth would be 1900.

Which would make him a staggering 107 in the current day. Likewise for the Japanese mother. Even the younger characters such as Skip, the teacher and the Scholz guy would be well into their 80's, is it that realistic that ALL of those people would still be alive and kicking?

Duuuude. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. This season has been really really bad about it, too and I almost wonder if they're just getting lazy. This ep, the War of the Worlds, and even Devil Music (from 1954) was pretty bad - that mom would have been AT MINIMUM in her late 30s at the time, as she had a teenage son. Which would make her anywhere between 90-95. But there she sits in 2007 looking not a day over 75 (and even that might be pushing it). The son would have been 70+ which I guess he could pass for if you squinted, but that was kind of the problem - he looked the same age as his mom. (I just saw that ep again so it's fresh in my mind)

As for the characters in this ep - lets just assume they had kids VERY young. They'd still be WELL into their 90s in present day. But there they are - alive, lucid, mobile, and with pretty damn good skin to boot. Possible? Sure, but not probable and certainly not for multiple characters. At the very least, get 90 year old actors, not folks who look like they may not even eligible for SS yet!

These are the eps when I yell at the TV like I do when the Yankees are losing. Really, Cold Case?

[Collider]

Apr 25, 2008 18:09:27 GMT -5 pavlovsdog said:

One thing that bugs me about episodes that involve older cases is the supposed ages of the current day characters.

That's a very valid point... and I can absolutely see how it can annoy the heck out of people. But for me, personally, I'm very seldom bothered by this particular issue. I'm more than happy to sit back and let them claim 'artistic license' for episodes like this, simply on account of their having done them at all.

IMHO, I'd much prefer that they do these episodes set in the 30s and 40s &c and take that necessary license with the ages for practical casting purposes, than if they weren't to attempt these sorts of episodes at all because they couldn't find a 100-year-old actor to fit the role.

I see it as one of those situations (and I'm really glad you mentioned this on the thread for this particular episode, as this and "World's End" are two of the best examples)... wherein the concept is so clever and so brilliantly conceived, I'm willing to overlook a bit of necessary offness in the execution for the sake of casting.

Naturally, it's just a matter of preference. There are a couple of things I've seen done on the show, which I'm sure they've done through necessity, but which nonetheless annoy the heck out of me... but this particular one just happens to be something I find myself happy to overlook.

[eurache]

CBS REPEAT - JUNE 29, 2008 (10PM ET)

[eduardodelroice]

This episode was one of the season 5 best!
Old case, intense, excellent acting... emotional, powerful!!!
EXCELLENT EPISODE!!!!
I loved it!!!

However, I did not understand what the daugther said in the beginning. His dad died in Philly so; she said the police looked for the murderer in California? That was not very clear to me