cellogal
Veteran Detective
Recap Expert[/color]
Don't worry. I'll be polite.
Posts: 710
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Post by cellogal on Apr 26, 2008 12:29:25 GMT -5
Welcome to ShipperLand, qirjanran!
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Khaya
Lilly Rush
Official Lurker[/color]
Posts: 1,886
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Post by Khaya on Apr 26, 2008 12:38:18 GMT -5
Far too long ago since I've posted anything here. *murblemurmble* It'll take some while before I'm going to see that ' BestepisodeoftheyearwithlotsofScillyloveandaverygoodstoryline-episode' on telly here. *screams in dispear*  We're now with the episode after It takes a village. What was the name again..? I forgot it.. Edit: Boy crazy! that's the name. Remembered it again  Darn, Dutchtelevisionschemes!  Yeah... when you watch it on screen it seems so clear what each of their problems are and I sit there thinking sometimes "How can they not see? It's so obvious." But I think that's easier to say as someone watching from the sidelines. I can't claim to have ever been in either Lilly's or Scotty's shoes in terms of what they've had to go through in their lives and I can't imagine it would be easy to overcome certain issues *especially issues of that calibre* so it kind of gives you perspective on how real people might have to handle their feelings and the aftermath of truly traumatic experiences. I think that's what makes CC such a well-written drama - that they make it so subtle but we can read into these characters and understand what made them the way they are. And hopefully how they can overcome their obstacles. I admire your theories, Isr. And I can only say this: Agreed! ;D |
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Post by lsr on Apr 26, 2008 13:09:46 GMT -5
Far too long ago since I've posted anything here. *murblemurmble* It'll take some while before I'm going to see that ' BestepisodeoftheyearwithlotsofScillyloveandaverygoodstoryline-episode' on telly here. *screams in dispear* We're now with the episode after It takes a village. What was the name again..? I forgot it.. Edit: Boy crazy! that's the name. Remembered it again Darn, Dutchtelevisionschemes! Just be patient Khaya! Good things come to those who wait. (alright that was cheesy but my grandma said that to me practically every day and I learned never to challenge an Irish lady - especially when she could smack you upside the head and you wouldn't even know what hit ya lol) Anyway, be sure to post your thoughts after you get to see it! Aw gee. Thank you! And here I thought I was just annoying the hell outta people. Maybe I should ask for a show of hands? Actually on second thought, I don't think I want to go down that road. lol. Too dangerous.  |
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Post by qirjanran on Apr 26, 2008 14:05:38 GMT -5
thanks for the welcome, guys.  like you said, lsr, i can't seem to get the possiblity of lilly/scotty out of my head! and i've been having myself a cold case marathon of the old seasons [i'm mid-way s3!] so i'm analyzing ANY lilly/scotty screen time together hehe. i really think they have deep feelings for each other, they just don't realize yet that they do. but we do! hehe. like you said, i'm reallyyyy hoping for a nice lil/scotty moment in the next episode or at least in the finale to tide us over until next season since this season was unfortunately cut short because of the writer's strike. hopefully the writers will deliver!!! |
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Post by yankee1151 on Apr 26, 2008 14:40:17 GMT -5
Oh, stop fishing. You just set yourself right up, didn't you? ;D I actually do appreciate reading your theories, though they are not in line with my own, because I feel better knowing I am not the only weirdo who analyzes the hell out of these characters. But like I said, I do see some "shippy" moments in certain episodes, yet it's subtle enough and true to the characters, so I'm fine with it. And I would like for the two of them to acknowlege their friendship and just be real with each other. And... they can leave it at that. Also wanted to comment on that scene from "Joseph" mentioned earlier, because I just saw it again while transferring some eps to DVD. Don't hurt me, but I saw no sparks in that scene whatsoever. Friendly concern, yeah. I personally thought Scotty was referring to Chris (or even Ana, maybe) when he said the bit about the messed up affections. And the "it's killing me?" HE MEANT HIS HAND, lol. That's all I got from that. Again - I have seen a little something between them in other eps (Stalker & The Road) - though if the affection goes beyond friendship, I believe it's only on Scotty's end at this point. However, I really saw none of that in "Joseph." And actually, I ALMOST wish something did happen in that ep because did I mention I HATED Joseph and that whole ridiculous plot contrivance? Sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant. Oh yeah, welcome to the board, qirjanran. Even if you are a shipper... ;D |
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Post by brasiliangirl on Apr 26, 2008 16:01:25 GMT -5
Well, I'm here because I'm a shipper too, but, unfortunately, I think they won't be together.  |
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Post by yankee1151 on Apr 26, 2008 18:28:30 GMT -5
Welcome brasiliangirl. Collider, where are you? The shippers have totally taken over the shipper thread! ;D |
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cellogal
Veteran Detective
Recap Expert[/color]
Don't worry. I'll be polite.
Posts: 710
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Post by cellogal on Apr 26, 2008 18:32:08 GMT -5
*evil laugh*
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Post by lsr on Apr 26, 2008 19:59:43 GMT -5
Oh yankee.....lol Oh, stop fishing. I swear I wasn't! lol lol. I definitely stepped in something. Well I have to say it is nice to know that you can read them without being hostile about it. As I mentioned before, I've had experiences where non-shippers just wanted to rip the shippers heads clean off. lol. (and vice-versa in all honesty ) But I think we've got a healthy relationship here, yankee, as long as we agree to disagree that is. I, too, want an acknowledgment but something that reveals a lot mooooreeee than friendship. heh. But you already knew that I suppose. No worries cause I'm about to do the same lmao! LOL YANKEEEEEE - GAH! So much to say so little time.  Just to clarify, this is all in good humour. I'm truly not trying to provoke a fight here but I just HAVE to say this or I'm gonna burst.First of all, indulge me if you will and take a minute to look at this picture. Look at his eyes. How can you say that he ISN'T thinking something and that there ISN'T more to his story! lol.  It could not be clearer in my mind. And dude.. he CLEARS HIS THROAT! You don't just clear your throat for nothin! lol *unless maybe you have a cold or something which he certainly does NOT!) heehee The only thing I'll give you is that he wasn't necessarily talking about Lilly with his "messed up affections" line but I'm sorry, you can't have "it's killin' me." He meant a helluvalot more than just hand, no, ifs, ands or buts there for me! One other thing I have to mention, the very fact that this scene happened in the season finale means something. Every show in the history of time (lol) has used the 'relationship card' as their trump card. They know shippers exist (even if we are nutjobs - or maybe I should only speak for myself); They know they need to pull for ratings - so what do they do? They throw scene's like the Joseph one in. (and the "Stalker" ones... and "The Woods" ones) It happens every year. And I gotta say as much as I love them and look forward to seeing them.. they frustrate the hell outta me at the same time. Mainly because I know I'm being teased to death but can't NOT watch either! lol *sigh* Deeeeeep breaths and I'm back to my happy place again. lol. Sorry about my little tangent. I get pretty involved in my couples - yeah I know, I know - I'm looking into therapy. Anyway, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on the Joseph scene. It's one of the shippier scenes I have seen for them (and pretty much what every fanfic starts off like in my head ) By the way, welcome brasiliangirl! I'm happy to meet another shipper but don't lose faith, there is hope for them (despite what those nonshippers say !!! |
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Post by yankee1151 on Apr 26, 2008 21:02:05 GMT -5
Totally. And I'm sorry if I've been redundant (I know I have), I just DO NOT WANT THEM TOGETHER. Damn, there I go again. Gotta say, I have no experience with "fandoms" (still not entirely sure what that word means, exactly) and had no idea about these "shipper wars" you guys have talked about. I mean, I get it (I've posted on the mlb boards and there have been FIGHTS - don't ever leave a Yankee fan and a Red Sox fan to their own devices, lol) but I never knew that type of hostility went on when discussing a tv show (particularly when the people arguing are all fans of the same show!) Rest assured, I will only disagree respectfully, and only give you sh** in fun. (That goes for all of you, not just lsr - if that wasn't clear). Besides, I'm a little skeeeered... I'm on your turf in this thread!  **Off topic sidebar - I have the TV on in the background and one of the gazillion versions of CSI is on, and all of a sudden I hear Pino's voice. I look up, and there he is. As Scotty. On another show. I swear it took me like a full minute to realize that I was not going nuts and seeing CC characters on random shows, and this was just some sort of crossover. I think I need a Cold Case intervention. He looks like he's disappointed in her. And really, can you blame him? She's risking her job for effing JOSEPH. Ew. Maybe he has reflux. I do, and I clear my throat a lot. It's actually quite annoying. Poor Scotty. I think he needs some Nexium. ;D [George Costanza voice] WELL I'M TAKIN IT, BABY! [/George Costanza voice] And if we're using photographic evidence, may I present this:  HIS HAND WAS KILLING HIM!! LOL It didn't happen in the first season finale. And other than "Stalker," I don't think it happened in the other ones, either. Agree to disagree on this fo sho! Holy crap. Maybe we should go to group therapy? |
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cellogal
Veteran Detective
Recap Expert[/color]
Don't worry. I'll be polite.
Posts: 710
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Post by cellogal on Apr 26, 2008 21:49:04 GMT -5
Wow. I think group therapy might be a good idea.
I can honestly see the first picture both ways. I can see the disappointment and concern, for sure, but I see something else. Actually, where I really see that...something else...is when he's talking about the "misguided affections" thing, and when he says, "believe me," there's this flirty little eyebrow wiggle. But that first picture...I just might have to make that my new wallpaper.
I think the beauty of this show is that there are so many different ways to interpret things, and the show never comes out and says how they want you to interpret them. And my guess is that, whenever it ends, it'll be kind of open-ended there, too. More fodder for fanfic, in my opinion.
I cannot BELIEVE I missed the Scotty CSI episode. Grrr.
And, as an aside...did I mention I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Red Sox fan? No joke. But we won't fight about that here. I promise.
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Apr 26, 2008 22:43:21 GMT -5
I think Lilly should attended counseling again I think she needs to realize what her happiness is and how to find it. She doesn't know the world outside of her job, meaning to enjoy life moment by moment instead of ingnoring everything arounds her. Scotty is included in this one since he also fails to realize what also makes him happy. Perhaps the two need to take sometime and tryi to help each other through the dark moments of their past in order to be able to deal and possibly change their present.
As the old saying goes" You can't change your past, but can change your future", maybe if Lilly and Scotty try maybe they will end up together. I can see how much he loves her but after rewatching several reruns I can see he wants so much to just hold Lilly just for a minute. Scotty's eyes show so much concern, Love, understanding and respect that she needs so much.
He is like her keeping his feelings guarded up. Even during the episode 5X10- Justice, after interviewing that woman Lilly looks over at Scotty for a second as if she wanted to say" Help me" but quickly the walls came up preventing her from spilling that. But Scotty could see it all over knowing how scared Lilly was to tell anyone.
I do mention this in my story, I do seem to get inside of this minds trying to understand the characters.
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom 
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Apr 26, 2008 23:03:48 GMT -5
I cannot BELIEVE I missed the Scotty CSI episode. Grrr. I've likened Scotty's attitude to Icarus here, as the Cold Case writers and art directors seem to love making the occasional reference to ancient Greek mythology in the show. Therefore, I was humorously surprised that the CSI victim was specifically called "Icarus" and had other similarities to the myth.... How ironic, I thought..... Anyway, I hope you get to see the episode. |
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Post by lsr on Apr 27, 2008 0:55:18 GMT -5
Totally. And I'm sorry if I've been redundant (I know I have), I just DO NOT WANT THEM TOGETHER. Damn, there I go again. Gotta say, I have no experience with "fandoms" (still not entirely sure what that word means, exactly) and had no idea about these "shipper wars" you guys have talked about. I mean, I get it (I've posted on the mlb boards and there have been FIGHTS - don't ever leave a Yankee fan and a Red Sox fan to their own devices, lol) but I never knew that type of hostility went on when discussing a tv show (particularly when the people arguing are all fans of the same show!) Rest assured, I will only disagree respectfully, and only give you sh** in fun. (That goes for all of you, not just lsr - if that wasn't clear). Besides, I'm a little skeeeered... I'm on your turf in this thread! Yes, same goes from this side of the fence which I think you know by now. It's totally your prerogative if you want to come in and chat about them - as I said, you're definitely welcome as long as everything is friendly - but honestly, I'm surprised you do still want to. Personally, I would find it annoying to constantly hear things I didn't want to hear. lol. *shrug* But that's me...and we alllll know one of the screws musta come loose in my head somewhere along the line. lol. And yep, I know it sounds odd to fight over a couple .. who aren't even real. But ohhh trust me does it ever happen. I had to leave a board once simply because I couldn't stand the bashing anymore. *sigh* Nope. Sorry. That's not disappointment. *shrug* I tried (I even watched the scene again) but I just can't see it that way. Besides which, it's not the only time he's ever looked at her like that. I'd need a hell of a lot more room to post all the angsty-wordless looks Scotty has given her over the years. In fact, give me time and I'll show ya! hahahha. What I actually think you could really use is some extra strengh Visine yankee! lol. Get that fog out from in front of your eyes so you can see properly ;D LMAO! Somethin was killin' him but it AIN'T his hand!!! LOL. Aw man, I knew I'd have to answer to first season.   Agreed. First season had very little. But guess what? Every finale since... DID! And actually every finale since has gotten better and better. (ie. translation: shippier and shippier ;D) I never find any show is "under way" enough by the end of first season to develop anything anyway. They are still in the "crap, are we even gonna get picked up?" phase and as well, I think I already said this but I'll say it again...I'm not convinced they were planning anything right from season one. I think it only really began in season two. Don't get me wrong, I think the idea was in the creators' heads but nothing had begun to bud on screen til second. And don't even try to tell me, yankee, you didn't notice the parallels they were drawing in "The Woods" 'Cause I knoooow you did! |
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Post by lsr on Apr 27, 2008 1:05:06 GMT -5
I cannot BELIEVE I missed the Scotty CSI episode. Grrr. I've likened Scotty's attitude to Icarus here, as the Cold Case writers and art directors seem to love making the occasional reference to ancient Greek mythology in the show. Therefore, I was humorously surprised that the CSI victim was specifically called "Icarus" and had other similarities to the myth.... How ironic, I thought..... Anyway, I hope you get to see the episode. Wow, that's so interesting! *runs to read up on Icarus* I haven't seen the episode yet either but it's really awesome to hear the little tidbits thrown in by writers. I'm not sure I would have even picked up on it had you not mentioned. Writers must appreciate fans like yourself who are able to find those subtle references and acknowledge them. Anyway, thanks for the info! Cool to know! |
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Collider
Loyal to Look Again
CC Socialite[/color]
Heretic Pride
Posts: 458
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Post by Collider on Apr 27, 2008 5:52:58 GMT -5
Collider, where are you? The shippers have totally taken over the shipper thread! ;D *wakes up* Huh? Sorry? Did I miss something?! Totally. And I'm sorry if I've been redundant (I know I have), I just DO NOT WANT THEM TOGETHER. Damn, there I go again. That bit - the capitalised bit - is exactly one of my issues, but - paradoxically - it really shouldn't be. I'm someone who always goes for thought and subtlety in their pairings, instead of actual action, so shipping a pairing that would never actually get together isn't unusual for me. Moreover, I can (and frequently do) 'ship pairings that I do believe would ruin the fandom in question if they did get together... so that issue should be one I could get over and 'ship them irregardless. But, in the case of S/L, I just find myself watching the show and thinking, "but... why?". Thing is, I'll read cellogal's shipperfics and, by the end of them, I'be absolutely convinced by the pairing... but then I'll watch the show, and just think "hrm, no." Which is odd and confusing, given that - for a shipper - it should really be the other way around, the fanfic just reinforcing in a believable way what you're already inferring from the show. So, yea. I dunno. I'm kinda at a loss to explain what it is about the pairing that repels me from it in canon, when I'm so absolutely able to believe in it through someone's fanfic. Maybe I'm just weird that way. |
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Post by longislanditalian2 on Apr 27, 2008 11:25:34 GMT -5
During S1 Scotty was starting to become protective over Lilly. There were clear signs he already liked her but to Elisa's problems they were just buried deep down inside. The way the two talked to each other were early signs that the two had already established good communication and trust in each other.
S2- Their friendship turned downhill due to the thing with Christina but in " The Woods" Scotty apologized to Lilly wanting to move wanting not to lose her as a friend. Even while she was in the house he grew overprotective wanting to go in and save her.
S3- A certain line in " Start up" was a reference to their relationship back in S2" Shouts of silence between them" which was very true. Then in " Franks Best" Lilly turned back around and started talking to Scotty in a friendly way. If anyone remembers in " Dog Day Afternoons" Right as Ray pulls up he becomes even more protective knowing that Lilly doesn't belong with someone like him. In fact he wants to tell her not to get onto the Motorcycle but doesn't.
Then in Sancutary that man at the beginning says to Lilly" Like he's never lied to you" you can tell she is thinking about what happened in S2 but doesn't answer. Later on she shakes her head knowing Scotty has lied to her and the team about not knowning Ana when he did all this time.
However in Joseph 3X23, Scotty's crush on her is evident in that first scene in the Breakroom. Lilly knows this as well but as usual hids behind her walls. Until she messes up the case causing a breakthrough when she tells Scotty. He tries to help her but then as Scotty is leaving she asks him about his broken fingers. The next day Scotty stands by her desk in full support when everyone else is shooting her looks.
The most clear source of the two looking like a potential cute couple is 4X11- The Red and Blue. The way that Lilly smiles as they both talk shows sparks of a relationship that could very well be good for the both of them. Communication, sharing some laughs and understand each other are keys to a successful relationship.
Perhaps in 4X13- Blackout- Lilly teases Scotty again which is another cute L/S Moments.
4X14- 8:03am which the two are kind of walking close together signaling that Lilly feels comfortable only around Scotty. I think she knows he won't ever hurt her but this is foreshadowing especially around the time her mother reenters her life again. One thing Lilly doesn't realize is that Scotty has been there for her during that whole time, at her side if she need to talk about it. Sure she mention somethings but he listens while still supporting her.
Stalker 4X24- Comes the spark which made us Shippers happy. First when Scotty comes to her house offering his comfort. Lilly does open up but to an extent, but he never pushes her to tell more. He knows she is scared to let everything out like he is in a lot of ways. They are both too proud to ask for help like Lilly says in " Maternal Instints". The shoulding touching could be a foreshadowing for what was to come later but Scotty meant it as a his way of comforting her.
When really he wanted to hold her in his arms wanting Lilly to know he was there. The Hey thing was really the icing on the cake. After he says that she nodds understanding that Scotty would be there if she needed him.
One thing I caught was Lilly blaming herself for not being there when her mother had died, What if Scotty felt the same way after Elisa had killed herself? Maybe the two share the same kind of feelings but instead bottle it all up inside.
I like how Scotty rushes over to Lilly moments after being shot , his face looks sad, scared, and worried about losing the person who meant so much to him. She kind of looks at him while he holds her close. He remains strong even while she is in surgery pacing around .
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Post by yankee1151 on Apr 27, 2008 11:40:33 GMT -5
Nothing's been said that I don't want to hear, really. (Now, if you guys were actual CC writers, then yeah, I might not want to hear it, lol) It doesn't bother me in the slightest that some fans want to see L & S together. I like discussing it because I enjoy the character analysis and honestly, the show hasn't fleshed out the other regular characters enough to make me care all that much. So it makes sense that these two are the focus of most of the fan discussion. I mean, these discussions/debates would not even happen if everyone agreed. And if that were the case, the show itself (with regard to the regular characters) would be terribly boring because if everyone saw things the same way, it would mean the writers & actors were not giving us any material to interpret. The characters would have to be awfully bland and one-dimensional, and the show would kind of suck. So - like cellogal touched on above - I too love that the show gives us that subtlety instead of spelling out "they love each other/hate each other/want to shag/want to whatever... but can't because this or that happened... yada yada yada." Like you said, they KNOW some fans are going to ship this pair. So of course they throw in stuff that could be interpreted as "shippy." But much of it can also be interpreted another way, too. And having said that - as much as I don't want them to get together I know that if the show did go there, it would not then become "the Scotty & Lilly show." Like, I know it would be done in such a way that non-shippers would still be able to watch and enjoy the show for the cases, etc. At least, I hope so. It would run the risk of being awfully shark-jumpy, though. See, this is just silly to me. Not saying you are silly, lsr, because you've not been combative here at all, so I have to assume it was other people who escalated any problems elsewhere. But I cannot understand why it would be taken so personally to begin with. As much as I love me some Lilly, I know she's FICTIONAL. Ditto WRT my indifference (for lack of a better word) for Scotty. I mean, I'm the first to admit I'm waaay too invested in this show and I'm clearly a freak for thinking/talking about these characters as often as I do - but I would never take it as a personal affront if/when other people disagree with my interpretation, opinion/preference whatever. It's not like people are shipping Lilly & John Smith or any other ridiculousness just to be antagonistic. (I don't know, maybe they are on other boards, lol) And even then, I'd just write a person like that off as twisted and continue to engage in intelligent conversation with others. Whatevs. Parallels to what? I think I'm a little dense here. (I mean that seriously, not being a smartass). I know Scotty said he'd murder George if he hurt Lilly but I saw that as simply, he was freaked out that his friend/partner was alone with an armed serial killer on the killer's turf. Would he have reacted the same/used the same words had it been another member of the team? Maybe not, but at the same time, Lilly was the one George wanted - and George didn't kill dudes. The danger would not have been the same had it been anyone else. It wouldn't have even made sense to have, say, Jeffries, in that situation in the first place. And Kat wasn't around then. Yeah, I kind of agree. I'm loving cellogal's fic, and do find it believable as written. Thing is, I'd probably find it believable if done on the show, too. I may not see all the "moments" that the shippers see, but I see some and could buy the pairing if it actually happened (depending on how it was done, but I have faith in the writers). I just wouldn't like for it to happen. And it's also hard for me to verbalize why. It would just be... wrong. No we won't. We'll have to take it outside...  ;D |
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boxman
Lilly's Bedroom
Philly Reporter [/color]Foxy Boxy [/color]
Posts: 2,514
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Post by boxman on Apr 27, 2008 13:37:10 GMT -5
Writers must appreciate fans like yourself who are able to find those subtle references and acknowledge them... It's fun finding them.  Discovering these parallels and external references is kinda like finding "easter eggs". |
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alba
Desk Clerk I
Posts: 4 
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Post by alba on Apr 27, 2008 21:46:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome! I really like that photo of Scotty! Sure Scotty is a bit disappointed in Lilly in that scene because she lied to him but Stillman is disappointed, too, when she tells him and I don't think he looks like that. Maybe it is just me, but I think "it's killing me" is a bit much too say for a man about his hand which doesn't seem to be broken that much. Why don't just say "it hurts"? And with such a slow voice. There has to be more meaning to it. But I admit it could be about the lie and the situation in general. The scene just gives a shippy vibe to me. But like some of you said, it's nice to have room for different interpretation. The messed up affections bit could refer to Ana. Because Scotty made a similar mistake with her as Lilly with Joseph. Or it could have double meaning. I thought it was a bit out of character that Lilly risked her job for Joseph. But the part with the feelings I could understand because Lilly cares and thinks much about the victims and Joseph seemed like a nice guy who had many things in common with her. But I think when she thought him dead it wasn't love just some kinds of feelings. Reading that thread I have realized that it's a bit funny that I ship Scotty and Lilly and like them best but also liked most of their other relationships or at least didn't found them annoying. (of the episodes I've seen) Maybe because they are all understandable and have some nice parts even if they weren't something I would call "love of their lives". Maybe it's because Cold Case is such a good show or because they don't concentrate on the relationships. Ah and something I thought about and would like to know: What do you think would have happened if Christina didn't hook up with Scotty but with another one of the detectives (even if it's a bit difficult to imagine)? Would Lilly's reaction have been the same? @ longislanditalian2: Nice list of Lilly and Scotty moments. It makes me want to see some of these episodes again. |
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like you said, lsr, i can't seem to get the possiblity of lilly/scotty out of my head! and i've been having myself a cold case marathon of the old seasons [i'm mid-way s3!] so i'm analyzing ANY lilly/scotty screen time together hehe.
Discovering these parallels and external references is kinda like finding "easter eggs". 
